414 Dyno results: Missed combo?

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MOPAROFFICIAL said:
I played with one of those stub stacks, i put it back on the shelf to collect dust. I think the idea was good but maybe not quite dialed yet "15 years ago..."
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This 2" raised R2C insert and the ENTIRE assembly matched the dyno "hat"! It also reduced dry flow on the flowbench almost 20cfm! This is why testing and not just on the dyno, but real testing from flowbench work, to dyno, to G-tech, to butt-dyno, to track is so important. This 2" raised R2C insert will now reside under my own truck's hood. J.Rob

2inchR2C.jpg
 
This was also the first time I saw a K&N Xtreme assembly actually not hurt power--too bad they don't filter at all. It flowed really well on the flowbench as you would expect. The R2C filter flowed less @ 3" tall but a 3.5" tall filter matched the K&N and it will actually trap dirt and keep your cylinders clean. J.Rob

K&NXtreme.jpg
 
RAMM said:
This 2" raised R2C insert and the ENTIRE assembly matched the dyno "hat"! It also reduced dry flow on the flowbench almost 20cfm! This is why testing and not just on the dyno, but real testing from flowbench work, to dyno, to G-tech, to butt-dyno, to track is so important. This 2" raised R2C insert will now reside under my own truck's hood. J.Rob

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I agree.
Now...that stack is way more tech than the k&n, I might look into one of those.
 
Testing will resume on Monday. I didn't capture any video and intend to try a few more things. Not searching for power though, I just want to "know" this engine a little better. I also intend to try some 100LL Avgas as this engine did pump 190 on a quick , hot compression test. I hope it doesn't make more power 'cuz that will mean I have too much dynamic compression for true 91 pump gas. To be perfectly honest I think I heard a slight rattle @ 3500 rpm @ 36 total. Not sure though as usually an engine in detonation will come off the brake weird and sound like **** and struggle and have a wicked dip in the curve which this engine never did. In fact this engine exhibited zero dip at all which is pretty rare. J.Rob
 
This is why I am not in love with the 4" arm and limited CSA heads-REGARDLESS of flowrates. Wicked wicked street engine but very limited RPM for my likes. J.Rob

414graph.jpg
 
RAMM said:
This was also the first time I saw a K&N Xtreme assembly actually not hurt power--too bad they don't filter at all. It flowed really well on the flowbench as you would expect. The R2C filter flowed less @ 3" tall but a 3.5" tall filter matched the K&N and it will actually trap dirt and keep your cylinders clean. J.Rob


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Been running an extreme filter n top for 13 yrs *because I run a drop base* and was trying to make it up somehow.
 
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RAMM said:
This is why I am not in love with the 4" arm and limited CSA heads-REGARDLESS of flowrates. Wicked wicked street engine but very limited RPM for my likes. J.Rob

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I love the arm, but not the readily affordable handicap heads we have to chose from.
Every sbm 4" motor I go straight to the pinch and divider wall and thin and widen as much as I can for a minimal rpm increase. 190-210cc starting point would be great...
 
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RAMM said:
Too bad they don't stop the dirt. NOBODY in ATV/DirtBike DIRT racing uses K&N media filters--Why? J.Rob
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oh I know...lol that's gone around the camp fire for years, sand goes right through'em...just throw a sock over it ..lol
 
RAMM said:
Testing will resume on Monday. I didn't capture any video and intend to try a few more things. Not searching for power though, I just want to "know" this engine a little better. I also intend to try some 100LL Avgas as this engine did pump 190 on a quick , hot compression test. I hope it doesn't make more power 'cuz that will mean I have too much dynamic compression for true 91 pump gas. To be perfectly honest I think I heard a slight rattle @ 3500 rpm @ 36 total. Not sure though as usually an engine in detonation will come off the brake weird and sound like **** and struggle and have a wicked dip in the curve which this engine never did. In fact this engine exhibited zero dip at all which is pretty rare. J.Rob
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Put 100 in it and hear it smooth out and take on a less crispy idle and overal tone.
 
Max1196 said:
What factor did the "winter fuel" play towards the results?
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I intend to find out with Avgas. I haven't seen any engine NOT run better on the stuff. I am lucky to have it within 2 kms of my shop. My ATV's , lawnmowers, weed-wackers, 31 ton log splitter,chainsaws, 5hp cement mixer, etc... all run better with it. Better in this case doesn't necessarily mean more power but easier starting, idle quality, throttle response, cooler running engines, happier engines is always the result. It's a real shame that lead will poison our nerves and kill us. Perhaps God is not a motorhead after all. J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
This was also the first time I saw a K&N Xtreme assembly actually not hurt power--too bad they don't filter at all. It flowed really well on the flowbench as you would expect. The R2C filter flowed less @ 3" tall but a 3.5" tall filter matched the K&N and it will actually trap dirt and keep your cylinders clean. J.Rob

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I have a friend/customer who put one of these on his 440, watched Him make a few passes, laid down a cloud of gray/black..........never-ever did that before, have any A/F
#'s from the dyno before & after? I was thinking the increase in vertical airflow velocity might add too much pressure to the bleeds, but apparently not, curious................
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
Put 100 in it and hear it smooth out and take on a less crispy idle and overal tone.
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You're absolutely inline with my thinking. Every time an engine becomes more efficient it gets quieter. In fact I think it was Bill Jenkins that said something like that. Actually looking at the BSFC's of this engine with one of the air filter combos it went as low as .387 which was lean but only hurt power by a couple of points. Can you say 20 MPG @ HWY cruise? J.Rob
 
Killer6 said:
I have a friend/customer who put one of these on his 440, watched Him make a few passes, laid down a cloud of gray/black..........never-ever did that before, have any A/F
#'s from the dyno before & after? I was thinking the increase in vertical airflow velocity might add too much pressure to the bleeds, but apparently not, curious................
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I have read that the X-treme lid interferes with the incoming air from the sides and causes turbulence even though it flows more. My experience seems to support that idea. I tried one at the strip 10 years ago and when I took it off I picked up 2 tenths on a mid 12 car. J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
I have read that the X-treme lid interferes with the incoming air from the sides and causes turbulence even though it flows more. My experience seems to support that idea. I tried one at the strip 10 years ago and when I took it off I picked up 2 tenths on a mid 12 car. J.Rob
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The '68-'69 mopar 383/340 etc air cleaners, ,element equal ,could do better as designed and intended for...
 
RAMM said:
You're absolutely inline with my thinking. Every time an engine becomes more efficient it gets quieter. In fact I think it was Bill Jenkins that said something like that. Actually looking at the BSFC's of this engine with one of the air filter combos it went as low as .387 which was lean but only hurt power by a couple of points. Can you say 20 MPG @ HWY cruise? J.Rob
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I agree. Ive a similar experience lately, just be lite on the pedal, primaries only and I'm really surprised, cranking dynamic like this motor of your, tight quench, solid roller though....it gets surprisingly good mpg and no cacking/pinging @28 when on it hard and when that Sunoco goes in....smooths it nicely just a hair...gets deeper sounding.
Its rag edge...but I like it, and we can tune in more power if we want. Great thread.
 
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Great thread as always. You can save a few bucks if you order this cam from Summit. Plain white box with Crane Cam inside. My brother runs this cam in a 9:1 stock stroke 360 and it works great.
 

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mderoy340 said:
Great thread as always. You can save a few bucks if you order this cam from Summit. Plain white box with Crane Cam inside. My brother runs this cam in a 9:1 stock stroke 360 and it works great.
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Thanks! Did not know this. J.Rob
 
mderoy340 said:
Great thread as always. You can save a few bucks if you order this cam from Summit. Plain white box with Crane Cam inside. My brother runs this cam in a 9:1 stock stroke 360 and it works great.
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Can not open.
 
I'm still wondering why the rpm is important given it's apparently going in a truck. It's a mismatch, but a usable one...lol. Stop pulling it and let him go use it.
 
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