390 cfm vs super six

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Slantsix64

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been thinking about trying a 390 cfm Holley on my slant six. Some info on the car , car currently has a Clifford camshaft super six set up motor has been rebuilt with about 25000 miles on it. car is a 64 dart four speed with 3.55 gears. I get around 19mpg, since it's a four speed I don't have to worry about kick down b/s. Wanted to retain my mileage with a little more power although of course a re-jetting is required with that 390cfm. Anyone has good luck with a 390 cfm power vs mileage? Since my slant six has a Clifford camshaft I'm thinking that it will be able to accept the 390cfm advantage.
 
Itll never gulp 390 CFM but that little carb is pretty versatile. You can alter the springs in the secondary well and have them open when they're needed, but I bet its not too often. a paper clip on the actuator rod is an indicator of how far they open.
"....Let assume that we are going to upgrade a 225 CID engine is going to run at a maximum of 5000 RPM. With 100% volumetric efficiency (VE), we will theoretically need 325 CFM but, since there are pressure drops in the induction system, we will only need 244 CFM with a VE of 75% and 276 CFM at 85%. .."
Carburetion
 
What does your engine have for exhaust?
 
Itll never gulp 390 CFM but that little carb is pretty versatile. You can alter the springs in the secondary well and have them open when they're needed, but I bet its not too often. a paper clip on the actuator rod is an indicator of how far they open.
"....Let assume that we are going to upgrade a 225 CID engine is going to run at a maximum of 5000 RPM. With 100% volumetric efficiency (VE), we will theoretically need 325 CFM but, since there are pressure drops in the induction system, we will only need 244 CFM with a VE of 75% and 276 CFM at 85%. .."
Carburetion
I appreciate the math and such, but I had a 65 dart GT 225 SL/6, w/4spd and 3:55 rear gears. It had stock cam, but headers and dual exhaust. I ran a Carter 500 4bbl, and it ran great.
 
not knocking it,, carb will flow 390 with everything open, but it need not be all the way open to feed the 6 so like I said, it is versatile.
 
I went from a super six to a 390 cfm on a few of the slant sixes I have had over the years. I was concerned about more power/reliability and less with mileage. Your mileage will go down with the 4 barrel but how much its hard to tell exactly. Also I have used mild clifford cams in all of my slant sixes. The four barrel is a nice complement to the clifford cams. You need to make sure you either go with Dutra Duals/ headers or open the exhaust up to 2 1/4 to really benefit from the 4 barrel and clifford cam. Something you could also do to increase your mileage with the 4 barrel is to install 3.23 gears, or 3.21 assuming you still have the 7 1/4. 3.21 gears are available for the 7 1/4. I have made the switch to 4 barrel on a number of slant six engines and I have made the decision to always change them over to 4 barrels going forward. Not only for the power but also less hassle, electric choke, ease of calibration , ease of finding a frigging decent looking air cleaner etc. G 4 barrel you will not regret it.
 
I believe I've heard of a 400 cfm Carter 4bbl, but have never seen one, so it might be a myth. If I ever find one, I'd love to try it.
 
I believe I've heard of a 400 cfm Carter 4bbl, but have never seen one, so it might be a myth. If I ever find one, I'd love to try it.
Yes Carter did make a 400 cfm. I found one once but the guy wanted 1,000. You can find them sometimes listed on ebay too.
 
Look for some old Buick stock Carter carbs. Buick used some puny carbs on even their bigger motors. They knew low end torque was king.
 
A 390 is basically the front two barrels of a 650 holley. Id go 390 cfm 4 bbl, smaller front barrels and still gives decent flow when needed.
 
I went from a super six to a 390 cfm on a few of the slant sixes I have had over the years. I was concerned about more power/reliability and less with mileage. Your mileage will go down with the 4 barrel but how much its hard to tell exactly. Also I have used mild clifford cams in all of my slant sixes. The four barrel is a nice complement to the clifford cams. You need to make sure you either go with Dutra Duals/ headers or open the exhaust up to 2 1/4 to really benefit from the 4 barrel and clifford cam. Something you could also do to increase your mileage with the 4 barrel is to install 3.23 gears, or 3.21 assuming you still have the 7 1/4. 3.21 gears are available for the 7 1/4. I have made the switch to 4 barrel on a number of slant six engines and I have made the decision to always change them over to 4 barrels going forward. Not only for the power but also less hassle, electric choke, ease of calibration , ease of finding a frigging decent looking air cleaner etc. G 4 barrel you will not regret it.
Interesting yes I already have 3.55 in the rear with a 7 1/4
 
When you do it, take pic's I'm interested in the same thing.
 
UPDATE i am going to run a offenhauser intake, with a Afb Eddy 500 cfm i like how it will only give what my motor needs, i know i wont need more than 400 cfm the holley 390 is a better choice but man sounds like a lot of tuning, and the eddy is a easier configuration. i Also swapped Camshafts to a howard 473 lift 256 duration and bumped compression to 9.1 will be running 3.23 gears in the rear, originally had 3.55 but chipped a tooth less than a week of clutch dumping, but man this slant turning into a beast.
 
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Try it,, You will like it !
IMG_1999.jpg
IMG_0435.jpg
Clifford top photo Offy bottom. For me I always liked the AFB.
 
I run a Super Six set-up on my 225 Slant6, I’ve been running it on a car that was basically my daily driver. I retired it from the road in 2008, now just cruises and some shows. I know that my Carter 2bbl BBD flows at 280CFM, tried a 4bbl for awhile, but took it off it just didn’t perform that well on a basic stock spec’d engine. So back to the 2bbl, I’m alright with it that way. Other changes were a Mopar Elect. Ign. Orange box, HO Accel coil. Hooker headers 3 into 1, open element air cleaner, filter. Real dual S/S 2. 25” exhaust w/ H pipe to the back 2 glass pack mufflers. Auto. 3spd. 904, 8.75 rear w/ a single track 3.23 gear set. Idles nicely at 750/800 and pulls smoothly. Stay with the 2bbl.
 
Just remember that whenever you go to a bigger venturi, the velocity slows down thru it,and at low throttle openings, the transfers do not meter very accurately. Bigger carbs are designed for more cubic inches and or more rpm. Ask yourself how often will you be buzzing it up to 5000. With 3.55s and a 3.09 low-gear, this is about 40mph with 3.23s. At 4000 the formula spits out 32mph. Ask yourself if dragging a 500cfm carb around is worth it for that occasional blast, that in first gear may never even open the secondaries, and if it does, it might only be 10 or 20%, and what kind of metering is that 500 capable of at that throttle opening.
At 4000, the formula spits out 260 cfm at 100% VE. Suppose we give your 256 combo the benefit of the doubt at 80% VE, this is still just 208cfm . You can put a 1000cfm carb on there and it will never pull much more than 208@4000. By 5000 your VE is gonna have dropped considerably,but say it still manages .70Ve. This calculates to 228cfm@5000.So, a factory 230cfm carb will have no problem at 208/228,and you are only gonna be between 4000 and 5000 for 1 or 2 seconds, in first gear running from 32 to 40mph once in a while. But say your combo can pull .75VE at 5000, this is still only 244cfm, and your 230carb is not likely to hit a wall.
But when you hit second is where the problem is. That trans has ratios of 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.00. So the 1-2 split is 62%.. So at the shift into second, the Rs will drop from 5000 to 3100, and yur race is over; There is just no fast way out of that hole for a 225 cuber.Furthermore 4000 with 3.23s will not come up again until 51 mph. So in effect you are sacrificing economy for a 1 to 2 second blast,from 32 to 40mph, every once in a while.
Now, I'm not knocking your 4bbl idea, only the size of it, and the application. If you had an automatic,3.91s and a 3500TC, it would be a whole nuther story.
So, IMO, your combo is begging for a very small spreadbore. One with Super Six sized triple-booster venturies, and metering rods, and an AirValve Secondary, and all rolled into a 350ish cfm size. That 350 is more than enough to feed your 256 equipped 225 combo to 6700@80%VE, by the formula, so it should have no problem at 5000/5200.
But I wouldn't bother to even search for such a thing. If I had to have a 4bbl, I'd just bolt the smallest Q-Jet on there I could find; you know, the ones everybody throws away,lol.
There is a reason the SS system is so popular.

But if you got money to burn, I've always wanted to put a pair of SS's on an aluminum 2x1bbl intake. Those 4 little venturies should fill the bill really nicely.I've never seen it done, but I don't travel in those circles. I wish I had more time in this world to accomplish at least some of my dreams. Maybe I should stayed single,lol.
In any case, keep on keeping on.

But there is a monkey wrench in this story
2bbls, and 4bbls,
are not cfm-rated the same.
And not all manufactures even use the same standards.
So, I'm willing to bet that there is a 4bbl carb out there, that, on the primaries, IS better than a 2bbl, because of the rating difference, and because of the way the engine breaths thru it.
Now if I could just remember the standards; at the moment I'm in a brain-stall.
 
I run a Super Six set-up on my 225 Slant6, I’ve been running it on a car that was basically my daily driver. I retired it from the road in 2008, now just cruises and some shows. I know that my Carter 2bbl BBD flows at 280CFM, tried a 4bbl for awhile, but took it off it just didn’t perform that well on a basic stock spec’d engine. So back to the 2bbl, I’m alright with it that way. Other changes were a Mopar Elect. Ign. Orange box, HO Accel coil. Hooker headers 3 into 1, open element air cleaner, filter. Real dual S/S 2. 25” exhaust w/ H pipe to the back 2 glass pack mufflers. Auto. 3spd. 904, 8.75 rear w/ a single track 3.23 gear set. Idles nicely at 750/800 and pulls smoothly. Stay with the 2bbl.
Thats good input, for a stock motor with 7.9ish CR 375-410 lift the two barrel is the ticket, But I have 9.1 compression ratio 160 psi in each cylinder and a camshaft operating range from 1800 to 5800 rpms with .473 lift so I hope it will add to the combo. But hey if it doesn't run good and I dont like it I'll just swap it back to the super six
 
Also I know I'm going to lean it out on the primaries and secondaries to see what it likes.
 
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