LA Oiling Question

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SpeedThrills

SpeedThrills

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In KrazyKuda's article about assembling the front of an LA, he mentions a bolt that should have a hole in it.
There are 3 bolts that hold the cam thrust plate in place. None of mine have the hole. Was it assembled incorrectly? It has the drip plate, or whatever it's called. It looks kinda like a timing pointer.
How to Assemble the Front of a Small Block
 
I have seen them without the hole from the factory but I never put one together without it. I have just taken one of the bolts and drilled the hole in it myself. It's there to let oil drip out of the lifter gallery onto the timing chain.
 
SpeedThrills said:
In KrazyKuda's article about assembling the front of an LA, he mentions a bolt that should have a hole in it.
There are 3 bolts that hold the cam thrust plate in place. None of mine have the hole. Was it assembled incorrectly? It has the drip plate, or whatever it's called. It looks kinda like a timing pointer.
How to Assemble the Front of a Small Block
Click to expand...

Yes, if you have the drip plate, you should have the top passenger side bolt with a hole in it... Otherwise you will have only two bolts holding the camshaft thrust plate in...

I have seen another variation where they did not have the drip tab on the bottom two holes and just left the top passenger side bolt hole open... This way the oil can drip down and the oil slinger will throw oil onto the timing chain...

I like to use the drip tab as I feel it oils the timing chain better...

I did do a build recently where I didn't have the bolt with the hole in it and drilled the camshaft thrust plate hole for the drip tab tang one step larger and then modified the drip tab 'tang' to fit in that hole with the bolt...

If you have the ability to fabricate this, it will also work...

You want to open the bottom left hole on the camshaft thrust plate open enough to where you can modify the tab on the drip tab to fit along with the bolt...

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Hellrats said:
I have seen them without the hole from the factory but I never put one together without it. I have just taken one of the bolts and drilled the hole in it myself. It's there to let oil drip out of the lifter gallery onto the timing chain.
Click to expand...


When the factory didn't use the bolt with the hole, they left that hole open and didn't have the drip tab...

They used three bolts in the other positions of the thrust plate...
 
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Hellrats said:
I have seen them without the hole from the factory but I never put one together without it. I have just taken one of the bolts and drilled the hole in it myself. It's there to let oil drip out of the lifter gallery onto the timing chain.
Click to expand...

Drilling the hole in the bolt can be tricky as it's .125" (1/8") and if you don't get it centered correctly can weaken the bolt where it may break while torquing it...

However if you have the skill and/or equipment to do drill the hole centered all the way through, then go ahead... the best way to drill that hole through the bolt will be with a lathe...
 
Three bolts with the drip tab. Passenger top bolt should have a hole. The oil flows from the front of the lifter valley . If you need the bolt we make them in the lathe using grade 8 bolts. I also have factory bolts they are free for a jersey neighbor just pay for the stamp and I'll send you 2 , A spare because most break the first one they install . That is why they are missing on most motors.

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The bolt with the hole in it is WORTHLESS. Drip oiling if for lawn mowers.

Put four good bolts in the plate and be done with that part of it.

Drill a hole about .040 in the cam plate where it covers the oil gallery for the passenger side. You will get full pressure oil on the timing chain and gears.

Anything else is just mental masuturbation.
 
and behind the cam plate there are oil gallery plugs......
 
yellow rose said:
The bolt with the hole in it is WORTHLESS. Drip oiling if for lawn mowers.

Put four good bolts in the plate and be done with that part of it.

Drill a hole about .040 in the cam plate where it covers the oil gallery for the passenger side. You will get full pressure oil on the timing chain and gears.

Anything else is just mental masuturbation.
Click to expand...

People never consider how much oil it takes in the valley to make it through that little hole...lol.. that little hole see's way less oil than the lower chain/gear see's from the pan slosh every time you slow down to a stop.
Hole or no hole...it will live.
 
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I could never figure out what these were for, a internal oil leak ?

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brian6pac said:
I could never figure out what these were for, a internal oil leak ?

View attachment 1715384094
Click to expand...
It speaks for itself.
You'll get more oil with no bolt at all than with one that has a hole you need 2 qts in the valley to feed..

Never stop learning people.
Btw if you're not modifying your main bearings in your 273-340...then you're aiming for failure. Get wit it.
 
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yellow rose said:
The bolt with the hole in it is WORTHLESS. Drip oiling if for lawn mowers.

Put four good bolts in the plate and be done with that part of it.

Drill a hole about .040 in the cam plate where it covers the oil gallery for the passenger side. You will get full pressure oil on the timing chain and gears.

Anything else is just mental masuturbation.
Click to expand...


Running without the oil galley plugs behind the camshaft thrust plate, you can get a low oil pressure condition... It happened on the first small block that I built...

If you want to run your engines without them, that's your call... I will run mine with them...
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
It speaks for itself.
You'll get more oil with no bolt at all than with one that has a hole you need 2 qts in the valley to feed..

Never stop learning people.
Btw if you're not modifying your main bearings in your 273-340...then you're aiming for failure. Get wit it.
Click to expand...


:bs_flag:

Behind the bolt hole that takes the hole is the lowest point in the lifter valley... It will fill first before the rest of the lifter valley...

Liquid flows down hill easier than it flows up hill.... If you don't believe me, try kicking water up hill....
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
You'll get more oil with no bolt at all than with one that has a hole you need 2 qts in the valley to feed...
Click to expand...

Yes, having the bolt hole empty will flow more oil, but if you run the drip tab, then you already have one bolt hole open unless you do the mod that I showed above in post #3... But that is a little tricky to do and it makes torquing that bolt feel a little off...

I wouldn't feel comfortable running the drip tab and only using two bolts to hold the camshaft thrust plate in...
 
krazykuda said:
Running without the oil galley plugs behind the camshaft thrust plate, you can get a low oil pressure condition... It happened on the first small block that I built...

If you want to run your engines without them, that's your call... I will run mine with them...
Click to expand...


Was the plate no flat or junk? Done dozens and dozens of these engines and never used those goody plugs. Most of the engines I know were untouched from the factory didn't have those plugs in them.

Again, just dumb redundancy.



Edit: you could have had a plate that looks like the plate in post 12. I'd throw that plate away.
 
Yep the factory might not have used them but they like to cut corners to save money. It's stupid to take the chance of losing oil pressure over two little plugs that don't cost but a few pennies. To each his own but for me they go in all of my engines.
 
yellow rose said:
Was the plate no flat or junk? Done dozens and dozens of these engines and never used those goody plugs. Most of the engines I know were untouched from the factory didn't have those plugs in them.

Again, just dumb redundancy.



Edit: you could have had a plate that looks like the plate in post 12. I'd throw that plate away.
Click to expand...


No, that plate was the original one from a 71 340....

That was the first engine that I ever built and we didn't have a stash of parts at the time like I do today, so that was the factory original one...

I had to pull the engine 4 times before finding the problem... Everyone kept telling me that it was our bearings because the distributor drive shaft didn't mesh properly with the hex drive in the oil pump and tore the oil pump hex up...

I replaced that pump with a new one and assembled the engine, and it still had the problem... Everyone kept telling me that I must have wiped out the bearings... It was Ken Neve from Mopar Muscle club that told me how to properly diagnose the problem - turn the oil pump while gradually tearing the engine down and look for oil gushing out somewhere, there will be where we are loosing pressure...

I had to make a priming shaft in my high school welding class because Mopar did not make them yet... So I made me a priming shaft by cutting an allen wrench off at the bend and welding it to a 5/16" metal rod...

When I tried spinning the oil pump with a drill, I could not see any oil gushing out... Then my older brother came in the garage with his friend and saw the drill with the priming shaft on it and gave it a whirl... When he did a jet of oil shot out of the camshaft thrust plate and almost hit me... I got excited and told him to do that again (he thought I was pissed at him), so he hit it again and another jet of oil shot out (this time I was not directly in front of the engine) and we traced it to the missing oil galley plugs under the camshaft thrust plate...

After installing the oil galley plugs, the oil pressure was fine... I knew there wasn't enough run time on the engine to wipe out the bearings like all the others kept insisting...

So after installing the engine back in my Challenger for the 5th time, it only took me 12 hours to reassemble the engine and drop it in ready to fire...

So after that much trouble, I always check to make sure the oil galley plugs are in when I build an engine... Plus with it not squirting when I spun the oil pump, then it did when my brother did, it tells me that it could be an intermittent problem and not do it all the time... So I don't take any chances...

I would rather spend a couple more dollars and a few minutes to install the plugs, than take a chance and have to pull an engine over it again... Redundant or not, I don't play around with low oil pressure...
 
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Hellrats said:
Yep the factory might not have used them but they like to cut corners to save money. It's stupid to take the chance of losing oil pressure over two little plugs that don't cost but a few pennies. To each his own but for me they go in all of my engines.
Click to expand...



Well then use the plug and drill a .-25 hole in it. It's virtually IMPOSSIBLE to get a leak at that plate unless the block isn't flat or the plate is junk.

I've been using gear drives since the mid 1980's and put many together and never had one leak.

Do what you want, but there was some other issue.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Oh? Explain this please.
Click to expand...
The holes are all off...they send more off the bearing backing to the cam than main.
when I get back on my 340 thread I'll post pictures and show you what I'm talking about I basically am changing all my bearings out due to the fact that the Clevite full grooves oil feed hole was offset towards the cam and there is a small v passage where they intersect that's too small to deliver the amount of oil needed.
Pretty fkn lame.
I dont have that issue with 360's...but hey..
You want the hole the same size as the feed 5/16 I think..on the main and lined up, cam is secondary and good off the v intersection.
 
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krazykuda said:
:bs_flag:

Behind the bolt hole that takes the hole is the lowest point in the lifter valley... It will fill first before the rest of the lifter valley...

Liquid flows down hill easier than it flows up hill.... If you don't believe me, try kicking water up hill....
Click to expand...
bullshit.lol
what are you ..breaking the entire time you drive? No. You're accelerating, g force..it all mostly goes to back like your dogs water bowl when kick it on accident.. Fact is ...while chains need some oil to survive, how much depends on how much fiction, heat, rpm it's moving and creating. It gets oil every single time you feel like, you yourself, are moving forward from decelerating or braking.
Why do you think there is a Slinger down there...just as much to block direct oil splash from the front seal as it is allegedly "slinging".Leave one off n your seal will leak. slant 6 it will be almost immediate...point is , that's how much oil gets up there.
I would never drill the lifter galley plug and have it piss on the chain, total waste imo.
Way to send more oil to wrong places.
Run one or dont, just use a drip plate so that all that oil sloshed on the crank gear/chain can get some reapplication to the chain again on it's way down.
Ps. Dont forget to check the main bearing oil feed hole alignment to the main saddle galley/feed.

Have fun disagreeing.
 
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