j par
Well-hung Member
I was afraid I would have to ask more than I want for it I just don't like doing "the dance"...
Offensive to sellers but have people gone over the cliff on Car values
- Thread starter SLOPAR72
- Start date
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The Killer Pictures gets people interested to come out, and most know they can get it for a little less (they know the game too of having it priced just a little bit high).
Easy to come down just a little when the people are there wanting to buy it. 500 off your asking price is not out of line. Then everyone is happy. If they want 3000 off your asking price, they are probably just tire kickers and you say no.
Or lots of people say what is your bottom dollar? If you have it priced at 6750, you can answer them back with 6500 as I feel that the value is in the vehicle and it is working good.
Now you have given them something and are giving them the opportunity to say OK.
j par
Well-hung Member
Yes I want to wait until it's 100% shorted out..
jonn6464
1970 Duster
Just to clarify, I'm not against a restoration shop putting in hundreds of hours and $$$ into a project and then listing it for big bucks. There is a market for that, and guys with money are who those cars are targeting. That's a good business.
My issue is that a car is on TV on Thursday, and on Friday some dude with a beat up, rusted, incomplete car (that happens to have the same brand name) now thinks his is worth 70% of the one he saw on TV.
Hey, if you can foot the bill for a shop to get your car to be what you want it to be, that's awesome. And you end up with something that you'll enjoy!
I think back 20, 25 years ago... you would call up the junkyard and tell them what you're looking for. They'd say "yep, we have 3 of those". Then you'd make the trip (sometimes a long one) and pull the part for $25. Now, you go on-line and order the part, because they make EVERYTHING aftermarket now, but that same part is $175. That's another piece of the "unattainable for blue collar guys" puzzle that I was mentioning in my last post.
It's an expensive hobby now, there's no way around it. I have $20K into my Duster resto and I've done every piece of body work, mechanical assembly, and cosmetic upgrade myself. That cost is mostly parts, and I still don't have an engine or paint yet. It shouldn't cost $30K to restore a car in your own shop, on your own time. But, that's where I'll be when it's done. Maybe more.
jonn6464
1970 Duster
Look what you've started!
Fishing68
Well-Known Member
#1 - A car, that's any car has a cash value determined by what someone will buy it for. Buyers dictate the market. Sellers can influence buyers in many ways. Logic, emotion, information, and trends all play a part.
#2 - Today on average for these cars Prices look much higher than when the cars were new so it is common to view them as getting more expensive and the somewhat misleading term that is assigned to the phenomenon is called "Inflation". I would suggest a more useful and accurate way to view what is actually happening is that the purchasing power of a U.S. Dollar is falling and is a fraction of what it was when these cars were new. A dollar does not buy (generally) what it did back in the 60's and 70's (example- gasoline).
Markets go up and down and certain things (sometimes rare) can become hotly sought after and command a premium above and beyond the norm. Later they may fall but generally over time they will "increase in price" because the dollar is loosing value. It takes more dollars to buy the same thing. It is a function of modern monetary policy.
Understanding these facts have been very useful for me in gaining an understanding of the seemingly illogical and chaotic nature of our modern financial world.
#2 - Today on average for these cars Prices look much higher than when the cars were new so it is common to view them as getting more expensive and the somewhat misleading term that is assigned to the phenomenon is called "Inflation". I would suggest a more useful and accurate way to view what is actually happening is that the purchasing power of a U.S. Dollar is falling and is a fraction of what it was when these cars were new. A dollar does not buy (generally) what it did back in the 60's and 70's (example- gasoline).
Markets go up and down and certain things (sometimes rare) can become hotly sought after and command a premium above and beyond the norm. Later they may fall but generally over time they will "increase in price" because the dollar is loosing value. It takes more dollars to buy the same thing. It is a function of modern monetary policy.
Understanding these facts have been very useful for me in gaining an understanding of the seemingly illogical and chaotic nature of our modern financial world.
DesertRat
Leading edge boomer
Cash is king and with the fed devaluing our dollar with QE-4 it takes a lot more dollars to play in the car hobby. There are hundreds of thousands of cars for sale that never get sold. The cash is not there.
famous bob
mopar misfit
Hard to believe !
SLOPAR72
Well-Known Member
I always like comparing the classic car market and owning these cars to the game of musical chairs, when the music stops you want to have a place to sit down. As in the financial point of veiw of it.
Owning, working on, driving, and showing off theses cars is a whole other enjoyable experience all on its own.
Feel fortunate to have had experienced some of these cars over a lifetime.
The cars all have a value to them, as I still consider them assets that you can see, feel, touch and hear. Unlike stocks in the stock market that can lose value by someone's paper shuffling never to be gained back again.
For buyers:
You just have to look harder and be ready to pull the trigger fast.
Just last year I missed an original paint matching #, good body 69 Super Bee for 13K.
Was on CL for almost 3 months at that price!
...and just a few short months ago, a 70 Bee with super rare factory power windows was on FBBO and ebay for 22K
Running, driving, shiny paint and a small amount of body work done that didn't look to need done again.
There was a non #'s 70 340 Duster, running driving and set up for street/strip right here on FABO for 13K with nice paint just last year.
You just have to look harder and be ready to pull the trigger fast.
Just last year I missed an original paint matching #, good body 69 Super Bee for 13K.
Was on CL for almost 3 months at that price!
...and just a few short months ago, a 70 Bee with super rare factory power windows was on FBBO and ebay for 22K
Running, driving, shiny paint and a small amount of body work done that didn't look to need done again.
There was a non #'s 70 340 Duster, running driving and set up for street/strip right here on FABO for 13K with nice paint just last year.
You can thank Mecum and Barrett Jackson for that. They help make people think that's what those cars are worth.
valiantwagonguy
Well-Known Member
Actually it started to happen in 1987 when the bottom fell out of the stock market that October.All these idiotic greedy investors who knew nothing about cars started looking for quick and easy returns on their money and started buying up cars.They began the upward price spiral and it just kept going as greedy car owners took advantage and greedy investors kept buying into it. Us working stiffs got pushed aside like yesterdays garbage. Back in those days was the time to get A bodies which is what I did because the big money was only interested in the big cars with the big motors that they could get big returns on in a 6 month to a years time. Now that's not the case , they have sucked up all the A bodies now as well.
Our hobby and car values???? I agree with most all the above comments. But what I have grown to dislike besides over priced projects, is the lack of decent projects, builders. I said decent projects, not to mention the prices asked continue to be stupid in general for Mopars. We tend to try to restore projects that are not even good parts cars. 20 years ago ther we so many more projects. I am so old 20 years does not seem that long!!!!
I understand so many cars have been restored to some degree, others have been hauled out of the pastures and now sit disassembled for years. Since the 80's it has been a steady decline of projects out there, they keep getting restored to some degree, people wreck some, many just sit NEVER driven until someone dies off an they sell.
Then the old boneyards keep disappearing, thus the stupid rise in costs of old parts. The supply of old parts is basically in the hands of the hobby guy. Most hobbiest are realistic as to the prices of such, if they have any experience. Silly prices on FeeBay . Way back, there were deals on there.
Over th years, I have had a lot of cars I drove. NOT restored, just driver stuff. Some were desirable models , some not so much. But I woud get them safe to drive, and drive them, and later sell them and not lose a dime. Now days, price of decent projects are generally too high for what they are, usually a roller, and overpriced. Cost of used parts is basically non existant at a bone yard, except later model motors. New parts add up quick. But I guess compared to buying a new or newish car, still it all great!!!
I understand so many cars have been restored to some degree, others have been hauled out of the pastures and now sit disassembled for years. Since the 80's it has been a steady decline of projects out there, they keep getting restored to some degree, people wreck some, many just sit NEVER driven until someone dies off an they sell.
Then the old boneyards keep disappearing, thus the stupid rise in costs of old parts. The supply of old parts is basically in the hands of the hobby guy. Most hobbiest are realistic as to the prices of such, if they have any experience. Silly prices on FeeBay . Way back, there were deals on there.
Over th years, I have had a lot of cars I drove. NOT restored, just driver stuff. Some were desirable models , some not so much. But I woud get them safe to drive, and drive them, and later sell them and not lose a dime. Now days, price of decent projects are generally too high for what they are, usually a roller, and overpriced. Cost of used parts is basically non existant at a bone yard, except later model motors. New parts add up quick. But I guess compared to buying a new or newish car, still it all great!!!
I feel like there are still plenty of deals to be had they are just a lot harder to find (facebook actually is where I find most of the good deals for the cars). I think I got a hood deal on my car (with all the spare upgrade parts included) but there are also a lot of rust buckets guys wanting 15-30k for. I also know I will never break even with my car due to the title, but that's ok. The best is like yesterday when my wife asks if I will let our daughter daily drive it when she gets a license.
If I had more money right now I'd of probably bought 2-3 more within the past year. Some of the big build prices are a little out of hand too. 60-70 and even 90k for a non matching #s car is a steep price to pay to play.
If I had more money right now I'd of probably bought 2-3 more within the past year. Some of the big build prices are a little out of hand too. 60-70 and even 90k for a non matching #s car is a steep price to pay to play.
/6 Matt
30 Degrees Crooked
Just wait for the economy to crash and things will correct themselves.
Remember, at the end of the day these cars are toys, not neccessaties. When the economy is up and people have money to blow on things like mopars, boats and anything else fun but not essential that drives up prices.
Case in point in late 08 early 09 I bought a super six intake for $50 bucks and 2 years later Rob gave me one! Here we are after 10 years of a bull run market and those intakes are worth $250 a piece which seems asinine to me. But that's what folks are paying.
Remember, at the end of the day these cars are toys, not neccessaties. When the economy is up and people have money to blow on things like mopars, boats and anything else fun but not essential that drives up prices.
Case in point in late 08 early 09 I bought a super six intake for $50 bucks and 2 years later Rob gave me one! Here we are after 10 years of a bull run market and those intakes are worth $250 a piece which seems asinine to me. But that's what folks are paying.
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This past Sat. wife and I had stopped in town ( stretching the imagination) for gas, the station is on the "highway". A guy had stopped there also, him in a 71 Cutlass 2 door BB car, solid, but a combination of peeled off blue over red that was over another color. Of course, I have to take a peek and I find he lives just 30 miles South. I mention what a cool car and so solid. He tells me he has a collection of Mopar and GM this and that cars, trucks, , he just had to buy it because it ran and drove, pretty straight, no rust really, and was not priced by some crazed idiot!!! He was off on his usual Sat. parts/cars hunting trek.
I agree I see way more interesting projects on FB Marketplace, CL has dried up seems like. Tx, is GM and truck country. There are cars scattered around, but they are usually hid!!!!
I remember back n Missouri n the 90's, ( after the first Mopar $ crash) I could ride all day and find good projects, decent drivers, all day long, and priced in general, darn fair. Just sitting out front by the road. I stop in to visit a Mopar bud and he had a list of guys he knew with good cars for sale, fair. OK so this was 20 odd years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
I agree I see way more interesting projects on FB Marketplace, CL has dried up seems like. Tx, is GM and truck country. There are cars scattered around, but they are usually hid!!!!
I remember back n Missouri n the 90's, ( after the first Mopar $ crash) I could ride all day and find good projects, decent drivers, all day long, and priced in general, darn fair. Just sitting out front by the road. I stop in to visit a Mopar bud and he had a list of guys he knew with good cars for sale, fair. OK so this was 20 odd years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
^^^^^^ True I agree. If things get bad, I will still have the 79 super six slant Volare I an drive for groceries!!!! lol And the old 95 Dodge 3500 Cummins, just broke in with 220,000 mi! It is a collectable now. Sorta beat up farm truck looking thing!! One of 2 vehicles I bought brand new over a period of 50 odd years!! ha
People ask that price for those intakes ( carbs, linkage, eyc) and people pay it so that makes the market. I still know where I can pull some off pickups for $75!!! But they are in Mo. and I am in Tx.!!!! ha again Other day I see a 70 dual snorkle air cleaner at $350!!!!!! To me it is still a $100 piece!! But where are they now???? Not in a boneyard!!! Good thing I don't need one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fishing68
Well-Known Member
Paraphrasing Mark Twain: I like progress, I just don't like change.
When things change it can be upsetting. Got to apply some strategy. Maybe wrench on what ya got if you think prices are too high and will come back down. I spent years looking for the right car only to see them get out of reach. Eventually realized I had to readjust my sights when I recognized I would be waiting forever to find a deal and price that I locked in on as a target at an earlier time. That target keeps movin.
When things change it can be upsetting. Got to apply some strategy. Maybe wrench on what ya got if you think prices are too high and will come back down. I spent years looking for the right car only to see them get out of reach. Eventually realized I had to readjust my sights when I recognized I would be waiting forever to find a deal and price that I locked in on as a target at an earlier time. That target keeps movin.
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Very good point, when cars became "investments" instead of a means of transportation, that's when the **** really began to hit the fan. People buying up cars because they expected to make a profit on them. Those were the ones who would never drive the car, just in case something happened to their investment. So someone saw a 70 HemiCuda convertible sell for 1 million dollars, found out that there were only a handful of them built by Chrysler, and realized they could make a ton of cash. I have nothing against someone making some $, but the end result is what we have today. One the one hand it's great to have all of the companies like AMD producing new panels for these old rustbuckets, but the fact is Chrysler was typically the #3 automaker, and their production totals were lower than Ford and GM, then factor in that there were far more /6 and 318 cars than there were 440+6 or Hemi cars. That scarcity makes the market go crazy, which then causes all of the clones or tribute cars because of course when you're putting 50 or 60k or more into a resto, you want to get some return on your $.
Case in point, there's been a gorgeous 1970 V code 4 speed Road Runner for sale locally here for a couple of months. Car is plum crazy with a white gut, super track pack car, restored to original, has a documented history, seller claims to have over 200k invested, is asking 112k. I only wish I had the money, that would be one I would love to own.
On the flip side I saw an ad today for an original 8 3/4 A body diff, claimed to be freshly rebuilt with 3.55s and an asking price of $2500.00
This is what I hear from ppl that ask if my car is for sale. It has 41,000 original miles. 1975 Duster. They say that it sits too much and will need everything redone. So I say good luck on ur hunt. Kim
Same car. Had it appraised a few years ago. It’s a factory 360hp car. Repaint in 1999. The guy doing the appraisal said: too bad it’s a 75, even though it’s totally original it’s not worth any more than 1 that has had body panels replaced or 100,000 miles on it with a lot of stuff replaced. I was kinda shocked to find out a 318 beater that was restored half assed was appraised more than mine cause the guy had receipts for the work done to it. He didn’t even do it himself. Kim
^^^^^^As I remember history. The cars of the 80's were dogs lets face it. By the mid 70's, fast cars were not cool in general. Disc was cool!!! lol
By mid 80's the high performance cars of the 60's were gaining a new following. They could be found, they were cheap, and the idea of collectability was being muttered by more. The whole thing was fun!!!
Look in the Kansas City newspaper, 1986 and there would be an ad for a 70 Barracuda. Call on it and go look, it was a 383 4 speed, GoMango CUDA, cost was $500. Been sitting for man years. Fresh plugs, and points run off bottle gas, drive it up on the trailer. FUN!!! The first guy to look turned it down. So it had some floor rust, and a LITTLE in the rear quarters! This similar story can be told by thousand of people.
1986. I pick up a 70 challenger, as a 318 car, someone dropped a good running 69 440 in it. Solid NO rust but a spot on a floor pan. $700. Everyone told me I gas way too much, for a 318, 440 wanna be car!!!!!!!! Drove it on th triler and later 20 mi down the road to replace the rusted out exhaust. They were right. It was just a fun ,cheap hotrod. Yep, better sell it off and get a REAL Mopar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lo
Yes I did stupid me!!!!!!!
Oh those were the days before the investors s screwed it all up!!!!!!!!
By mid 80's the high performance cars of the 60's were gaining a new following. They could be found, they were cheap, and the idea of collectability was being muttered by more. The whole thing was fun!!!
Look in the Kansas City newspaper, 1986 and there would be an ad for a 70 Barracuda. Call on it and go look, it was a 383 4 speed, GoMango CUDA, cost was $500. Been sitting for man years. Fresh plugs, and points run off bottle gas, drive it up on the trailer. FUN!!! The first guy to look turned it down. So it had some floor rust, and a LITTLE in the rear quarters! This similar story can be told by thousand of people.
1986. I pick up a 70 challenger, as a 318 car, someone dropped a good running 69 440 in it. Solid NO rust but a spot on a floor pan. $700. Everyone told me I gas way too much, for a 318, 440 wanna be car!!!!!!!! Drove it on th triler and later 20 mi down the road to replace the rusted out exhaust. They were right. It was just a fun ,cheap hotrod. Yep, better sell it off and get a REAL Mopar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lo
Yes I did stupid me!!!!!!!
Oh those were the days before the investors s screwed it all up!!!!!!!!
Fishing68
Well-Known Member
Right... "THOSE" guys. C'mon...You were flippin' cars with a trailer. Now since its a game that has grown in sophistication and dollars you no longer recognize you are a part of developing what it is today?
I have a 76 Pontiac Ventura that currently has 38k miles on it. Bought it with 27k miles in 2011, had not moved from 1993 to 2011 when I got it. Had to go through pretty much everything, brakes, exhaust, fuel system, all hoses and belts, rad was plugged, changed all fluids, rebuilt carb, flushed fuel tank, replaced brake lines, calipers, wheel cylinders, hoses, new fuel pump, etc. Still had the original tires on it, rock hard BFG radials, spare has never been used. Had it repainted in 2016, otherwise all original, appraised for a good chunk more than I expected, but not a high demand car. Now if it was a Nova, probably be a different story.
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