Today, dollar for dollar, is the 318 faster than the 340 ???

[Dave_J]

Nowhere in Post #1 was it stated you must use X heads on the 340 and stock heads on the 318. A set of 5.2 heads with stock valves will win the flow bench race with stock X by a slight margin. 1.92" and 1.62" and a stock 217 CFM intake port, slightly raised ports, stock 1.6:1 rocker ratio...... Just need some AMC 904 lifters and hollow pushrods.

Nowhere was it stated the 340 must stay at 10:1 CR and the 318 must stay at 8.2:1....

Nowhere did it say 400HP for the final price of $3000.

And, most importantly, nowhere did it say the engine need to last 20,000+ miles when done.

Yes this challenge would make a bit more sense if it was a 5.2 VS 340.

 

[j par]

I think if you go back and read the 1st post, there is nothing there to that's offensive. It dawned on me the other day that in today's market, the 318 could actually be the smart choice even with a 3k budget. All due to the collectors, or class racers, of course. Never once did I say the 340 is blah blah, I love 340's, I've owned 340's, including a factory 340 4 speed '69 cuda. I just thought it was a iconic moment in mopar history. If folks had an open mind in our hobby, not nearly so many undies would be in a bundle !

Never had a 340... If I did have one I'd sell it... If someone would buy my block 318 I'd sell it to them... Assuming they needed something to tie to the end of a rope to keep their boat from going adrift while they were fishing... LOL.....

 

[273]

Yeah it would be a good showdown between a 5.2 magnum and a 340. I'm not sure a person can source a 340 very cheap these days. I have one but not going to build it for racing.

Lol I think this is how the 400hp thing got started

I started a thread a couple days ago inspired by this one a running 5.2l magnum vs running LA 360 but just cam headers 4bbl which one would be better for the thrifty shopper for /6 swap or roller car etc.. figured It's a decision more than a few have dealt with.

Magnum 5.2l vs 360 LA?

 

[318willrun]

Never had a 340... If I did have one I'd sell it... If someone would buy my block 318 I'd sell it to them... Assuming they needed something to tie to the end of a rope to keep their boat from going adrift while they were fishing... LOL.....

And your first line is a good one. IF a guy had a 340 and 1500, would he be better off to sell it for 1500, take the 3k and get a "free" 318 and build it ? He may very well go faster....

Obviously selling the 340 and buying a 360 would net the best bang for the buck... but for the sake of the thread... it's a 318.

 

[Dave_J]

Since magazine builds were brought up, here's one to ponder (and we all know how accurate magazine build dyno numbers are...):

1970 340 High Performance Mill Dyno - Mopar Muscle Magazine

Just like @273 said above, this build is pretty basic and I'm pretty sure it would qualify as being less than $1,500 - cam, lifters, valve springs, retainers, intake. I'm not counting the carb, headers, ignition, since none of those things have been mentioned yet. Hell, you'd probably have money left over for beer. Now, let's put this up against the mighty $3k 318.

Even at Stage VI they did not bust OVER 400 HP, 391@5700 RPM.

 

[mopowers]

Even at Stage VI they did not bust OVER 400 HP, 391@5700 RPM.

Is that the new threshold? These goal posts keep moving.

Hell, with the extra money one could get some work done on the heads that would easily push peak power over 400 "magazine-build dyno" hp.

 

[Dave_J]

Is that the new threshold? These goal posts keep moving.

Hell, with the extra money one could get some work done on the heads that would easily push peak power over 400 "magazine-build dyno" hp.

No. No new threshold. You dug up and posted Steve Dulcich's Dyno run on a STOCK 340 to prove a point. Yes it did make 317 HP with just a bigger carb change. Would it be easy to make just under 1 HP per cube for a 318, NOT easy but it can be done. But not if you Flamingo* the 318 to stock CR and heads.

*Flamingo is where they handcuff your left wrist to your right ankle. You really can't do squat.

 

[448Scamp]

I don't believe 318willrun claimed he could build a 400 HP 318 with 3000 budget. 340's didn't produce 400HP.

Right. And I never said you could build a 400 horse 340 either. Not do one and have something worth having.

 

[448Scamp]

no, there was no actual hp number quoted in post 1. it was ''can a 318 make more power than a 340 for a buy and build budget of 3k?''.
maybe if 448scamp is so sure your 400hp for 3k 318 is impossible he'd put up the money, on the basis of it makes 400hp you keep it and if not he gets his money back. if he's such a big budget guy as he says maybe he can afford that challenge?

For 3k any of you dirt poor types can build it. I didn’t bring the power thing into it. Some other dude did. T me reiterate my position because this thread is wandering through the abyss. Point 1. This thread is stupid because of the silly budget limit proposed by the OP. Of course, this one done to make the OP correct in his poll and opinion. Point 2 is I can show you average machine shop prices that will prove that 3k is a stupid budget. I don’t do an engine that hasn’t had the blocked decked or the main line corrected. I just won’t do it. It’s penny wise and pins foolish. I always replace the damper with an ATI or at least a BHJ damper because it’s cheap money. I don’t use OE rods either. You can buy a better rod with 7/16 bolts that are far better than OE for about the same money as rebuilding OE rods. I won’t use a piston with 5/64 rings. I don’t build tractor engines and those rings are terrible. So as I said, add up and pretty simple rebuild and it ain’t 3k. Not even close. Almost forgot. I don’t use OE oil pans either. 4 quarts in the pan is just dumb especially if you want to be hard on the engine. You can buy a really nice Kevco pan for cheap money. Again, OE pans are penny wise and pound foolish. I won’t do it. So maybe this clears it up for you cheapskates. Build it as cheap as you can and then brag about it.

 

[448Scamp]

LOL.... I never mentioned a HP, nowhere in the post is HP mentioned. All these others turned it into "400 hp". Not 390, not 410, gotta be 400 hp. So sick of 400 hp. I beat so many 400 hp 350 chivies when I was young. Now it's 400 hp 318. 400 is better than 405. IDK... I give up LOL

You didn’t mention it. One of the other tongue flappers started bragging on all the 400 horse 318’s out there for 3k. He brought it up, got called on it and now she is backpedaling as fast as he can.

 

[448Scamp]

Nowhere in Post #1 was it stated you must use X heads on the 340 and stock heads on the 318. A set of 5.2 heads with stock valves will win the flow bench race with stock X by a slight margin. 1.92" and 1.62" and a stock 217 CFM intake port, slightly raised ports, stock 1.6:1 rocker ratio...... Just need some AMC 904 lifters and hollow pushrods.

Nowhere was it stated the 340 must stay at 10:1 CR and the 318 must stay at 8.2:1....

Nowhere did it say 400HP for the final price of $3000.

And, most importantly, nowhere did it say the engine need to last 20,000+ miles when done.

Yes this challenge would make a bit more sense if it was a 5.2 VS 340.

He didn’t say any of that. He did have a budget. Work inside that box.

 

[Tbro]

I just bought a 1969 Dart GT, with a 180 horsepower 273/2 barrel. I would be very happy with a 5.2 with bolt on upgrades.

300 horsepower 5.2 is easy to achieve with factory heads.

Remember Rusty rat rods guide to hotrod bliss? We could be satisfied without having bragging rights and enjoy our cars.

I will be just as happy running a 13.5, which will put a grin on your face and have money for dinner.

Even if we had a $1,000 dollar challenge, I could do a 5.2 with bolt on parts..ie headers, cam, intake and carb.

Oregon cams, now charges $179.00 to regrind your core. Still money way ahead. It would be close if not better than '73 340.

 

[jammied]

I'm not back pedaling 5.2 magnum stock freshen will support 400hp. Just the facts

Magnum heads will support 400hp out of the box. The 5.2 magnum already has higher compression than the la 318. If mopar performance can get 400hp out of stock magnum heads and a stock bottom end then its already been proven to work. So 5.2 magnum has factory heads that with a spring change can and will support 400hp. So just because you don't like it doesn't make it untrue. You have been presented with facts. And your return replies are always baseless flop jawing about how you do things. And you still haven't provided any facts or numbers that prove me wrong.

Break down the hp numbers, machine work you deem necessary. Prove to me that a 5.2 magnum with just a cam, headers, valve springs and intake can't make the power I stated. Prove it show me the numbers or you are the one blowing hot air

 

[j par]

Oregon cams, now charges $179.00 to regrind your core. Still money way ahead. It would be close if not better than '73 340.

WHAT!!! $179!!.. is that with shipping or something? My last cam when I drove from Oregon to Vancouver Washington to Oregon cam LOL... Was $79...
I swear I called earlier this year on some lifters and it was still $79...

 

[Tbro]

Lol "Rona" prices. Ken, was a pleasure to deal with. 1236 grind will wake things up.

Jpar, shipping is extra. Professional products crosswind intake was $212.00 at Summit.

 

[fishmens67]

I'm not back pedaling 5.2 magnum stock freshen will support 400hp. Just the facts

Magnum heads will support 400hp out of the box. The 5.2 magnum already has higher compression than the la 318. If mopar performance can get 400hp out of stock magnum heads and a stock bottom end then its already been proven to work. So 5.2 magnum has factory heads that with a spring change can and will support 400hp. So just because you don't like it doesn't make it untrue. You have been presented with facts. And your return replies are always baseless flop jawing about how you do things. And you still haven't provided any facts or numbers that prove me wrong.

Break down the hp numbers, machine work you deem necessary. Prove to me that a 5.2 magnum with just a cam, headers, valve springs and intake can't make the power I stated. Prove it show me the numbers or you are the one blowing hot air

Just because a head will support a determined horsepower doesn't make it so.
There are other variables needed to produce a number.
It would be nice if you included the other components that would result to a 400 HP 5.2 magnum.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but I believe the $ 3000 budget is the limiting factor.

 

[jammied]

Just because a head will support a determined horsepower doesn't make it so.
There are other variables needed to produce a number.
It would be nice if you included the other components that would result to a 400 HP 5.2 magnum.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but I believe the $ 3000 budget is the limiting factor.

Freshen 318 magnum, install 230- 235 or so duration camshaft of no more than around .515 lift add appropriate valve springs to head. No need for exotic connecting rods the factory proved stock magnum rods would handle 420hp. The magnum have hypertectic pistons from the factory. These items have been proven for 400hp from the factory and the mopar street truck book backs this up.

Ya see the small block mopar 318 magnum was and is more performance oriented right out of the factory than any other previous 318. No need for fancy balancing and Xtra super rods and forged pistons.

So 318 magnum is capable of producing 400hp without alot of exotic parts. Whether or not you want to push it to 400hp is your decision and opinion. I will just state the facts

 

[273]

Just because a head will support a determined horsepower doesn't make it so.
There are other variables needed to produce a number.
It would be nice if you included the other components that would result to a 400 HP 5.2 magnum.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but I believe the $ 3000 budget is the limiting factor.

Well we know the heads 750 airgap set of headers are capable of 400 hp, which leaves cr and cam, so I guess question how much cam and cr you would need to get to 400 hp out of a 5.2l, the 5.9l crate only needs 9:1 cr and a 230 .500" 108 cam can't see a 318 needing all that much more.

 

[jammied]

5.2 magnum already has higher compression than a 5.9 magnum. You just have to spin the 5.2 6,300 or so on a 230 or so duration cam before it peaks

Forgot to add if you want more compression get the thinner head gaskets

 

[fishmens67]

Well we know the heads 750 airgap set of headers are capable of 400 hp, which leaves cr and cam, so I guess question how much cam and cr you would need to get to 400 hp out of a 5.2l, the 5.9l crate only needs 9:1 cr and a 230 .500" 108 cam can't see a 318 needing all that much more.

Enough to make up for the additional 42 cubes of the 360.

 

[318willrun]

I just bought a 1969 Dart GT, with a 180 horsepower 273/2 barrel. I would be very happy with a 5.2 with bolt on upgrades.

300 horsepower 5.2 is easy to achieve with factory heads.

Remember Rusty rat rods guide to hotrod bliss? We could be satisfied without having bragging rights and enjoy our cars.

I will be just as happy running a 13.5, which will put a grin on your face and have money for dinner.

Even if we had a $1,000 dollar challenge, I could do a 5.2 with bolt on parts..ie headers, cam, intake and carb.

Oregon cams, now charges $179.00 to regrind your core. Still money way ahead. It would be close if not better than '73 340.

And that 13.5 will be faster than any factory 340 car...

 

[318willrun]

Just because a head will support a determined horsepower doesn't make it so.
There are other variables needed to produce a number.
It would be nice if you included the other components that would result to a 400 HP 5.2 magnum.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but I believe the $ 3000 budget is the limiting factor.

Hold first gear out till she misses.....

 

[318willrun]

WHAT!!! $179!!.. is that with shipping or something? My last cam when I drove from Oregon to Vancouver Washington to Oregon cam LOL... Was $79...
I swear I called earlier this year on some lifters and it was still $79...

New President.



THERE WENT THE HOOD !!!!!! Duck !!! Pizza and Pillows are fly'n LOL....

 

[jammied]

Hold first gear out till she misses.....

no no no

And don't detonate the piss out of it either

 

[448Scamp]

Freshen 318 magnum, install 230- 235 or so duration camshaft of no more than around .515 lift add appropriate valve springs to head. No need for exotic connecting rods the factory proved stock magnum rods would handle 420hp. The magnum have hypertectic pistons from the factory. These items have been proven for 400hp from the factory and the mopar street truck book backs this up.

Ya see the small block mopar 318 magnum was and is more performance oriented right out of the factory than any other previous 318. No need for fancy balancing and Xtra super rods and forged pistons.

So 318 magnum is capable of producing 400hp without alot of exotic parts. Whether or not you want to push it to 400hp is your decision and opinion. I will just state the facts

I didn’t say the factory rods couldn’t take that weak 400 horses. I said they aren’t worth rebuilding. Get the facts correct.