Finally get to pretend I am one of the cool kids - Holley kit swap
- Thread starter DionR
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DionR
Well-Known Member
Sorry, life happened. My wife had a full knee replacement just over 2 weeks ago so time out of the house has been pretty limited. Add that my borrowed extension cable for my welder had to go back so I can’t do any welding even if I was able to get into the garage to work.
I did get the upper welds done and the lower crossmember bolted in, so the trans is supported now and I could even move the car around if I wanted. I spent a little time starting to shape the sheet metal flaps over the crossmember to see if I could get it to fit, but without a welder I could only go far.
I did get some time outside last weekend and got my snowblower put away and the Christmas stuff up on the shelf and out of the way. While I was out there I slid the bench seat in just to see how it fit as I was curious. I have no plans to use the bench, but wanted to see if it was an option. It actually fit, but not great, the shifter clears but it is right at the front of the seat with the bench all the way back. I will post a picture this afternoon.
I did get the upper welds done and the lower crossmember bolted in, so the trans is supported now and I could even move the car around if I wanted. I spent a little time starting to shape the sheet metal flaps over the crossmember to see if I could get it to fit, but without a welder I could only go far.
I did get some time outside last weekend and got my snowblower put away and the Christmas stuff up on the shelf and out of the way. While I was out there I slid the bench seat in just to see how it fit as I was curious. I have no plans to use the bench, but wanted to see if it was an option. It actually fit, but not great, the shifter clears but it is right at the front of the seat with the bench all the way back. I will post a picture this afternoon.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Here is the bench seat all the way back and the trans in 2nd gear.
Yea, that's a bit tight for a bench lol
DionR
Well-Known Member
Little discourage here. Been spending a fair amount of time thinking about and looking at suspension mounting point and since I can't do any welding yet, I have just been sticking my head under the fenders and thinking. Thats when I noticed that the sheetmetal is wrinkled.
You can even see where the sheetmetal was when the undercoating was sprayed on.
Now that I look at the gaps, I can see that I should have looked deeper much earlier. The gap between fender and rocker is pretty big. The gap on the other side looks fine.
The car has some rust in the quarters and was obviously ridden hard, but I wasn't thinking jumping ditches. Not really sure what to do with it all now.
In the end, I will probably leave it alone and get it running and driving. But my gut says at the very least it will need frame work at some point before I reinforce the front. I thought the car was structurally good, obviously I was wrong.
You can even see where the sheetmetal was when the undercoating was sprayed on.
Now that I look at the gaps, I can see that I should have looked deeper much earlier. The gap between fender and rocker is pretty big. The gap on the other side looks fine.
The car has some rust in the quarters and was obviously ridden hard, but I wasn't thinking jumping ditches. Not really sure what to do with it all now.
In the end, I will probably leave it alone and get it running and driving. But my gut says at the very least it will need frame work at some point before I reinforce the front. I thought the car was structurally good, obviously I was wrong.
I wouldn’t say that’s nothing but I don’t know that it’s worth worrying about either, I’ve seen some pretty bad gaps on these cars without any actual damage. I’d say you should take some measurements and compare them to the factory chassis measurements before you spend too much time thinking about it.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Good idea.
I should add that the pinch weld at the firewall was split when I cut the tunnel. I didn't think much of it because I was planning to replace some or all of it over the tunnel anyways. But now, I think it illustrates the depth of the damage.
I suspect it will drive fine as is. But before I dive deep into the suspension I will probably pursue putting it on a frame machine. I guess I could look at replacement front clip, but really really don't want to do that. Time will tell.
Oh, and if I have one problem it is that I spent too much time thinking about everything. So too late for that.
That sucks but may not be a huge issue, have you driven it? Does it drive straight and not wander about etc?
The stone guard on your duster is that standard? Mine also had that is it standard, Australian mopars dont have stone guard just undercoat. Man it was a mission removing it, its like chewing gum.
The stone guard on your duster is that standard? Mine also had that is it standard, Australian mopars dont have stone guard just undercoat. Man it was a mission removing it, its like chewing gum.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I have not driven it. Time will tell as it most likely get driven the way it is the first time.
Stone guard? The car has undercoating, no idea if it was applied by the factory or not. That’s what is in the picture.
I saw a tip to remove the stuff using a needle gun. Chips it right off. I used a screwdriver and hammer and had fairly good luck cleaning up areas for the subframe connectors and the tunnel mods.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I spent some time trying to figure out how to measure the rails. I have the service manual, but struggling to make sense of it. Can’t even measure from the floor to points on the frame to compare side to side as I have jack stands under the frame rails between the k-frame bolts so any measurements are probably going to agree.
I will move the jack stands to under the body shortly and then maybe I can get an idea of the difference.
Oh, and one piece of good news is the wrinkle in the PS sheet metal is factory. So I think only the DS frame rails between is jacked.
I do have a line on another body. Guy in my small town is giving up on his ‘74 Dart Sport and selling everything. Car is a shell and floor has been completely removed. He wants like $5300 with a bunch of new sheet metal and a rotisserie. I can’t fund that, but when he listed all the prices if he separated things, the body was listed as “free”. He wants to see how it goes, but potentially, I could get a decent frame rail off it. Funds allowing, I would buy the full floor, quarters and body and maybe just start over, but I can’t swing it.
I will move the jack stands to under the body shortly and then maybe I can get an idea of the difference.
Oh, and one piece of good news is the wrinkle in the PS sheet metal is factory. So I think only the DS frame rails between is jacked.
I do have a line on another body. Guy in my small town is giving up on his ‘74 Dart Sport and selling everything. Car is a shell and floor has been completely removed. He wants like $5300 with a bunch of new sheet metal and a rotisserie. I can’t fund that, but when he listed all the prices if he separated things, the body was listed as “free”. He wants to see how it goes, but potentially, I could get a decent frame rail off it. Funds allowing, I would buy the full floor, quarters and body and maybe just start over, but I can’t swing it.
Open the hood and eye ball across the core support and the cowl. See if they appear to be level or one side is higher. Also look at the other side and see if the fender gap is the same. To have a buckle there you should be able to see other differences. Is the bump stop bent? Could likely be fixed pretty easily.
Finish it and drive it, potentially will never know. What level are you building the car to? Once driving a good repair shop could straighten it on a frame if anything is bent.
I wouldnt worry too much, unless building it to be a show car etc
As you look a long way in to now start fresh
I wouldnt worry too much, unless building it to be a show car etc
As you look a long way in to now start fresh
DionR
Well-Known Member
I don’t care about the wrinkles, but I do care if the chassis is twisted.
I agree it might not affect how it drives, and I doubt I will do anything about it before it drives for the first time. But I have to acknowledge that it will always be in the back of my mind and will probably end up with a new rail or on a frame machine at some point. Unless I find that whatever the damage is really didn’t move the frame rail around. Time will tell.
Yea, I agree with the above comment. These cars have some pretty bad gaps. Yours doesn't look like anything too out of wack. Did you measure it compared to your other Duster? Your pictures look pretty normal to me
DionR
Well-Known Member
I haven’t compared, other than visually just looking at the same areas on both. At some point I will get jack stands more under the middle of the car and take some measurements, no real point with the car supported on the frame rails.
I did measure the bottom of the frame rail at the leading edge of the torque boxes and saw a 1/4” difference, with the DS being lower. But I’m not ready to say that is useful info.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Oh, and I did spend a little time looking for wrinkles in the inner fenders and really can’t see anything. Not that I am well versed in that, maybe if I had been I wouldn’t have suggest my son buy it 14 or so years ago. Either way, to my untrained eye, I can’t see any other structural issues.
So it could be the bottom of the frame rail took an impact right about there and the rail itself really isn’t pushed up.
If the frame rails are square, I won’t really care about the damage. I just want the suspension to be square.
So it could be the bottom of the frame rail took an impact right about there and the rail itself really isn’t pushed up.
If the frame rails are square, I won’t really care about the damage. I just want the suspension to be square.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Yep, did 2x3 subframe connectors before I pulled the slant six. Plus front and rear torque boxes.
And I only have a 5.7 to put in it.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Well, not really sure what is going on, but going to ignore it.
I moved the jacks back to about where the door hinges are and under the frame, took a measurement from the floor to the bottom of the rail at the forward k-frame bolt and the rails were different by 1/2", with the left one being lower than the right. That was the opposite of what I expected.
So I tensioned the torsion bars, put the wheels back on and set them on the cribbing. Got the suspension to sit about the same side to side with the bump stops just touching and measured the wheel openings at the centerline of the wheel and at the frame in the same spot as before. This time the wheel openings were pretty much dead on the same and the frame rails were within 1/8" with the the right one being a touch higher like before.
I'm going to put it to bed and not worry about it. Not sure what the wrinkles are about, maybe the rail got hit right under that point and the rail didn't move much. Or maybe it had some frame work way back when and that was as good as they could get it. Either way, I don't think there is much to do about it.
To be clear, I didn't push pause on the project due to this. Still waiting on the borrowed extension cord and taking care of my wife so I haven't been able to move forward for other reasons. At least the break has given me time to find this, think about it way too much and decide it isn't all that important.
I moved the jacks back to about where the door hinges are and under the frame, took a measurement from the floor to the bottom of the rail at the forward k-frame bolt and the rails were different by 1/2", with the left one being lower than the right. That was the opposite of what I expected.
So I tensioned the torsion bars, put the wheels back on and set them on the cribbing. Got the suspension to sit about the same side to side with the bump stops just touching and measured the wheel openings at the centerline of the wheel and at the frame in the same spot as before. This time the wheel openings were pretty much dead on the same and the frame rails were within 1/8" with the the right one being a touch higher like before.
I'm going to put it to bed and not worry about it. Not sure what the wrinkles are about, maybe the rail got hit right under that point and the rail didn't move much. Or maybe it had some frame work way back when and that was as good as they could get it. Either way, I don't think there is much to do about it.
To be clear, I didn't push pause on the project due to this. Still waiting on the borrowed extension cord and taking care of my wife so I haven't been able to move forward for other reasons. At least the break has given me time to find this, think about it way too much and decide it isn't all that important.
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
Do you think it's possible someone just jacked it up using the wrong point at some point in the past? So it might be enough to wrinkle the sheet metal, but not necessarily tweak a whole rail? I'd generally agree that it's not a big deal though. If the material is solid and it drives straight I'd send it. These cars are 50+ years old and still holding together and probably didn't have the best tolerances out of the factory to begin with.
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
If door gaps and hood / fender alignment look good, if car appears straight, body lines are lined up front to back, I would say car is straight enough. Sounds like body is good to me.
In the bottom picture does you lower fender not run in a straight line with the sill? My duster is the dame and i am thinking its a duster thing not an actual issue?
DionR
Well-Known Member
Not sure, I will try and get better pictures tomorrow and post them.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Sorry, just realized I never followed through on this. Took the pictures but never posted them.
Not sure if these help or not.
My '73:
Note that it has some really thick spacers pushing the fender out for some reason. My best guess is the door was rubbing on the fender and this made space? Not sure, but wouldn't be surprised it is related to the wrinkles in the frame I was concerned about earlier.
For comparison, here is my '74:
I think those thick washers are factory.
I don't remember the cost but I took my 68 dart to a body shop to have the unibody checked for square. It was not much. I wanted to be sure all was good before torque boxes and sub frame connectors were welded in.
I have a 68 GTX project that has the front frame rails laid over to the passenger side due to an accident . I may take it to a body shop this summer to be pulled over. Would prefer the front clip hang neutral.
The body shops have the sensors that go on the frame holes. It gives the diagonal measurements and elevations.
My car is likely worse than yours. If I get to mine first I can get you the costs? Or level of success?
I don't remember the cost but I took my 68 dart to a body shop to have the unibody checked for square. It was not much. I wanted to be sure all was good before torque boxes and sub frame connectors were welded in.
I have a 68 GTX project that has the front frame rails laid over to the passenger side due to an accident . I may take it to a body shop this summer to be pulled over. Would prefer the front clip hang neutral.
The body shops have the sensors that go on the frame holes. It gives the diagonal measurements and elevations.
My car is likely worse than yours. If I get to mine first I can get you the costs? Or level of success?
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