Oil pan gasket vs rtv

[HotrodColt]

I want to have a discussion about oil pan gaskets. Not brands or materials or leaking issues. But a discussion of WHY? Do we all just put those paper/composite gaskets on because we always have and then all just agree that they HAVE to be there? I recently worked on some other vehicles that don’t even come from the OEM with a gasket for the oil pan, just black RTV gasket maker. If it’s good enough for them, why couldn’t it be ok for us? I’m not saying I’m going to go this route with one of my engines, I just want to know what cork or paper can do to seal better than a form fitting/imperfection filling liquid that hardens in place. Anyone done it without gaskets? If so what were your results?

 

[RustyRatRod]

All I used on my Ford 400 this time around were the rubber oil pan end seals and grey RTV on the sides. It hasn't leaked a drop. I would have eliminated the end seals, but it would have probably taken three tubes to do the job, whereas it only took less than one.

 

[BSB67]

Last two big block engine builds, no oil pan gaskets, just RTV.

 

[HotrodColt]

All I used on my Ford 400 this time around were the rubber oil pan end seals and grey RTV on the sides. It hasn't leaked a drop. I would have eliminated the end seals, but it would have probably taken three tubes to do the job, whereas it only took less than one.

Last two big block engine builds, no oil ban gaskets, just RTV.

Thank you, Rusty and BSB67! I was waiting to be scolded for my thinking on this matter! Are you guys running a windage tray as well?

 

[RustyRatRod]

No windage tray here. The biggest argument you'll get is that it makes a gooey mess and RTV oozes out everywhere. As if somehow there's no way to put it on neatly. And if a little too much does squeeze out somewhere. I come back after it's cured and trim it off with a razor. Also, a lot say that the cleanup is tough. Again, a simple razor blade scraper makes cleanup a snap.

 

[jeff alder]

I agree with Rusty again. The RTV is a mess. The cork and rubber one's form fit as well. As the pan bolts are tightened the cork or rubber gaskets seal any minor imperfections in the mating surfaces. I prefer the rubber ones as they can generally be reused. Unevenly tightening the pan bolts or over torquing them is usually where the problems can arise.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I agree with Rusty again. The RTV is a mess. The cork and rubber one's form fit as well. As the pan bolts are tightened the cork or rubber seals any minor imperfections in the mating surfaces. I prefer the rubber ones as they can generally be reused. Unevenly tightening the pan bolts or over torquing them is usually where the problems can arise.

Well, when you don't have the option for a nice one piece rubber gasket, all there is is cork crap and it is ALL crap nowadays. They've thinned it out so thin that even torquing it to hal the rated torque normally tears the gasket and you now have a leak. I'll keep using the RTV. It just doesn't leak.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Small block . Put the rubber ends on dry to the pan or they have a tendency to push out when tightening. Then use contact cement and glue the cork gasket to the pan. Put RTV in the corners of the timing cover and the rear main cap. Then install. You will be able to remove the pan and reuse the gasket once or twice if needed. Never had a leak yet

Big block and Hemi. Glue the gasket with contact cement to the pan. Then glue the gasket to the top of the windage tray and install. No RTV needed. I use the same method for the valve covers . They can be removed and installed many times if you don't over tighten and squash the gasket like this idiot did using RTV on a gasket below.

Sometimes RTV is needed on intake ends instead of the cork with aftermarket intakes or with a block that has been decked.

Some engines you need to use RTV not early mopars. I have seen RTV used in place of gaskets on transmissions and motorcycle engines and it changes clearances. There are times the gaskets are needed for proper clearance.

This is what works for me and I have been doing it for years.

 

[newmexguy]

Was looking up a request for oil pan gasket yesterday for mid 10's Chevy Malibu. 2.0L DOHC turbo or 2.5L DOHC non turbo. Oil pan gaskets do not exist. The customer was at wit's end. Told him that black silicone is what is used. Would think that there could be a market for some kind of rubber gasket, similar to what is used in many tranny filter kits, for those who simply don't want the mess of RTV silicone.

 

[junkyardhero]

one reason OEM gets away with sealant only is because a lot of the assemblies are flat, there's no contoured shape or complex interface with secondary pieces-- think BB oil pan vs. small block.

a second reason is that machining tolerances, fit up and engineering are much better than they were back in the mesozoic era when our junk was made. the parts are all new, and clean and fresh. nothings all beat up and warped out.

also, the technology of sealant has come a long, long way since back when rusty was strokin' it to the sears catalog and all you had was indian head and grease to hold everything together. today there's a broad spectrum of sealants that do a great job across a wide variety of jobs and specialty stuff that works amazing for unique situations.

the biggest issue is all the damn fools out there thinking they're betty crocker just icing a cake with that mess. "the bigger the glob the better the job" is not a mantra to operate by.

 

[Super-Cuda]

one reason OEM gets away with sealant only is because a lot of the assemblies are flat, there's no contoured shape or complex interface with secondary pieces-- think BB oil pan vs. small block.

a second reason is that machining tolerances, fit up and engineering are much better than they were back in the mesozoic era when our junk was made. the parts are all new, and clean and fresh. nothings all beat up and warped out.

also, the technology of sealant has come a long, long way since back when rusty was strokin' it to the sears catalog and all you had was indian head and grease to hold everything together. today there's a broad spectrum of sealants that do a great job across a wide variety of jobs and specialty stuff that works amazing for unique situations.

the biggest issue is all the damn fools out there thinking they're betty crocker just icing a cake with that mess. "the bigger the glob the better the job" is not a mantra to operate by.

Agree!

Especially if it finds its way into the oil pan and blocks the pickup screen.

 

[Dartswinger70]

Some engines need gaskets others dont. Alot of modern cast aluminum oil pans? use rtv etc. from factory. Its really about the engine design and application. Did you know alot of the newer engines are tighter tolerance and use the thinner synthetic oils? doesnt mean the older engines need that stuff etc. alot of the machine finishes on the sealing surfaces are high tech on modern engines also...

 

[Super-Cuda]

Small block . Put the rubber ends on dry to the pan or they have a tendency to push out when tightening. Then use contact cement and glue the cork gasket to the pan. Put RTV in the corners of the timing cover and the rear main cap. Then install. You will be able to remove the pan and reuse the gasket once or twice if needed. Never had a leak yet

Big block and Hemi. Glue the gasket with contact cement to the pan. Then glue the gasket to the top of the windage tray and install. No RTV needed. I use the same method for the valve covers . They can be removed and installed many times if you don't over tighten and squash the gasket like this idiot did using RTV on a gasket below.

Sometimes RTV is needed on intake ends instead of the cork with aftermarket intakes or with a block that has been decked.

Some engines you need to use RTV not early mopars. I have seen RTV used in place of gaskets on transmissions and motorcycle engines and it changes clearances. There are times the gaskets are needed for proper clearance.

This is what works for me and I have been doing it for years.

View attachment 1716445083

I watched an episode of Graveyard Cars and this was the first time I saw gaskets being glued to the pans before installing. (Cousin Dougie method LOL ! )

These guys are building $100,000 plus cars.

Good enough for them...Good enough for me.

 

[RustyRatRod]

one reason OEM gets away with sealant only is because a lot of the assemblies are flat, there's no contoured shape or complex interface with secondary pieces-- think BB oil pan vs. small block.

a second reason is that machining tolerances, fit up and engineering are much better than they were back in the mesozoic era when our junk was made. the parts are all new, and clean and fresh. nothings all beat up and warped out.

also, the technology of sealant has come a long, long way since back when rusty was strokin' it to the sears catalog and all you had was indian head and grease to hold everything together. today there's a broad spectrum of sealants that do a great job across a wide variety of jobs and specialty stuff that works amazing for unique situations.

the biggest issue is all the damn fools out there thinking they're betty crocker just icing a cake with that mess. "the bigger the glob the better the job" is not a mantra to operate by.

Segall and Sons catalogs had hotter gals.

 

[Dartswinger70]

I used "High Tack" gasket adhesive alot when I was a line tech in the wrenchin' business...RTV isn't always good because the gasket will slide around as you torque it down etc. basically each gasket ,RTV and gasket adhesive has its time and place. Experience will dictate but some gaskets go on dry and some need adhesive and some need RTV in certain locations . Ill always for example use RTV anywhere coolant may potentially get into oil. That basically means Intake and timing cover coolant passages on an LA engine etc. but Ill use the RTV around the coolant passages and that's it.

 

[RustyRatRod]

one reason OEM gets away with sealant only is because a lot of the assemblies are flat, there's no contoured shape or complex interface with secondary pieces-- think BB oil pan vs. small block.

a second reason is that machining tolerances, fit up and engineering are much better than they were back in the mesozoic era when our junk was made. the parts are all new, and clean and fresh. nothings all beat up and warped out.

also, the technology of sealant has come a long, long way since back when rusty was strokin' it to the sears catalog and all you had was indian head and grease to hold everything together. today there's a broad spectrum of sealants that do a great job across a wide variety of jobs and specialty stuff that works amazing for unique situations.

the biggest issue is all the damn fools out there thinking they're betty crocker just icing a cake with that mess. "the bigger the glob the better the job" is not a mantra to operate by.

Exactly along with WHERE you put the bead of silicone. Common sense. Apply it on the outside edge of the oil pan bolts. That way, it does not squish into the oil pan. It works well when you apply it correctly.

 

[jeff alder]

Who knows what RTV stands for without looking it up?

 

[Dartswinger70]

Room Temperature Vuclanization...I remember from tech school 30 years ago LOL!

 

[MidnightSwinger]

Who knows what RTV stands for without looking

Ready For Victory

 

[MidnightSwinger]

Exactly along with WHERE you put the bead of silicone. Common sense. Apply it on the outside edge of the oil pan bolts. That way, it does not squish into the oil pan. It works well when you apply it correctly.

The amount of seal-a-cone I have removed from INSIDE the oil pan/block is terrifying. I’ve never seen any of it break off and get into the pickup, but it sure doesn’t make me feel all warm and cozy thinking about it.

 

[plymouth4onthefloor]

we do sealing like that in this video

use anti silicon degreaser, aply the sealer with a 0.080 rope and put together. Dont touch! It seals like an O-ring. I use this trick with the gasket on my 727, i put it together and tighten the screw just a small amount, let it dry over night and then tighten. The sealer fix the "uneven" steel oil pan.

 

[413]

You folks need to specify what engine you are working on.

On small block mopar (and early hemi same idea) I use Permatex ultra black sealer where rubber ends meet the cork side gaskets. And they seal fine without leaks.

Don't goop up the rubber ends seals.

On BB mopar I use some sealer on the ends of the timing cover and rear seal cap. A little around the dipstick area because it's half as wide.

Spend time getting the pan flat and clean clean clean. It mounts to a machined flat block.

 

[Murray]

Times change! There was no RTV when I started working on cars. The appearance of RTV changed/improved things. Before RTV there was Permetex #1 and #2.

 

[Bodyperson]

we do sealing like that in this video

use anti silicon degreaser, aply the sealer with a 0.080 rope and put together. Dont touch! It seals like an O-ring. I use this trick with the gasket on my 727, i put it together and tighten the screw just a small amount, let it dry over night and then tighten. The sealer fix the "uneven" steel oil pan.

That's how I was taught to use the RTV. The thinking is that if the oil gets to the threads of the fasteners, there is a chance of leaking.

 

[Inertia]

I can't get some gaskets for some of the older engines I work with.
I now use "Right Stuff" on everything I woulda used rtv.
***** to get apart, but never a leak in many engines, thousands of 7k rpm laps.
The "jelly" RTVs" require adhesion, it needs to stick to the surfaces to seal.
If you go around "snugging" RTVs gaskets, that action actually squeezes the rtv and often breaks the adhesion and creates a leak.
I used to use the "jelly" RTV , and like GM in the early 80's, using orange color "GMS" (general motors silicon) on all motor, trans, valve cover, timing covers.
Probably one of the largest warranty Campaigns ever done.
Spent a couple years at a dealership replacing the orange rtv with cork.