Ignition Switch Crazy Wiring

[Ken Pevay]

So I took out my 67 Barracuda today for a ride when we got to our dinner destination the car would not shut off so I popped the hood remembering that as a teenager if I pulled the wire for the ballest resistor, nope still kept running. Strange I thought, so I put on what I thought was a decent pair of rubber gloves and pulled the coil wire only to get Zapped! But it shut off. Afew other stopps on the way hjome it did shut off once with the key. But subsequent times I resorted to choking out the carberator much less shocking!! Anyways I pulled out the Ignition switch to replace it and found a cluster of wires taped together after I opened them up I found the cluster fu@#k showen in the photo, all soldered together. After further investigation looking at the wiring diagram the blue wire with tracer goes to one side of the ballast resistor, and the brown goes to the other side of the ballast resistor. Having thes all connected together effectively bypasses the ballest resister hence the reason it kept running when I pulled the wire?? It also looks like another wire used to be soldered ti this junction previously. I believe I need to separate these and reconnect the wires as they should be. Does anyone have any insite into why this may have been done? Will I have any other issues? Car has been running and working just fine for the 5 years I have owned it this was all done before I purchased it. I will be replacing the ignition switch as that should take car of my problem. Any thoughts or comments appreciated. Ken

 

[Oldmanmopar]

years ago when you would buy an accel coil you would get a ballast with it. They wanted direct 12 volts to that ballast. So everyone would jump the factory ballast and leave it hooked up. Why some idiots did this was beyond me . But I have seen this in the past on single ballast race cars. It kept the voltage regulator charging at idle was what they said. I never agreed with their logic. Hook it up as it should be.

 

[Ken Pevay]

years ago when you would buy an accel coil you would get a ballast with it. They wanted direct 12 volts to that ballast. So everyone would jump the factory ballast and leave it hooked up. Why some idiots did this was beyond me . But I have seen this in the past on single ballast race cars. It kept the voltage regulator charging at idle was what they said. I never agreed with their logic. Hook it up as it should be.

Thanks so much I figures it must have been something like that, I appreciate your feedback

 

[4spdragtop]

I bet the switch is fine and the wiring(clusterf@$k) is the issue.
Do you have FACTORY schematics, manuals?

 

[RedFish]

Even with ign 1 and 2 tied together, off would still be OFF. Previous owners :jump" for a 12 volt coil didn't kill your switch either. It's dying from old age. Seen it. I got 2 backfires before replacing my switch.

 

[67Dart273]

It surely has to be right there. The wiring mess, shorted / crossed wiring, or a bad switch.

YOU HAVE TWO sources of igntiion voltage.

1...With the key in "run" the IGN1 terminal sends power out through the bulkhead, normally dark blue, to the ballast, the voltage regulator, and depending on year, to other loads under the hood, such as electric choke, if used. THIS GOES DEAD when cranking to start.

2...With the key in "start" a second set of contacts, IGN2 comes alive. This is normally brown, feeds out through the bulkhead, and connects to the ballast at the coil side. It's purpose is to provide "full battery voltage" during cranking to the coil

Bear in mind that if you have EVER had some sort of short that heated up part of a harness, the insulation can melt in there and you can get, uh, "interesting" cross connections. I would start at the switch. If you unplug the switch, and the engine dies, you have found it. Otherwise, there is something in the harness. Also bear in mind that by moving/ wiggling the harness, if it has a cross, that you may have temporarily fixed the problem. Yeh, I know. intermittents suck

 

[Ken Pevay]

It surely has to be right there. The wiring mess, shorted / crossed wiring, or a bad switch.

YOU HAVE TWO sources of igntiion voltage.

1...With the key in "run" the IGN1 terminal sends power out through the bulkhead, normally dark blue, to the ballast, the voltage regulator, and depending on year, to other loads under the hood, such as electric choke, if used. THIS GOES DEAD when cranking to start.

2...With the key in "start" a second set of contacts, IGN2 comes alive. This is normally brown, feeds out through the bulkhead, and connects to the ballast at the coil side. It's purpose is to provide "full battery voltage" during cranking to the coil

Bear in mind that if you have EVER had some sort of short that heated up part of a harness, the insulation can melt in there and you can get, uh, "interesting" cross connections. I would start at the switch. If you unplug the switch, and the engine dies, you have found it. Otherwise, there is something in the harness. Also bear in mind that by moving/ wiggling the harness, if it has a cross, that you may have temporarily fixed the problem. Yeh, I know. intermittents suck

I feel pretty confident that the switch is bad after it not shuttimng of yesterday I wasnt going tom take it out, backed it back into the garage and shut if off!!! So I strarted and stopped it at least 6 times worked fine. so I said what the hell lets go and off we went. stopped for dinner after about 30 miles wouldn't shut off, so I disconnected the battery and smothered the carberator to kill the engine. not the best but it beats the shock i got the first time when I thought i had good rubber gloves on. made it home safe and sound. I'll fix the wire mess and replace the ignition switch and see where I'm at.

 

[67Dart273]

In the meantime, why not just do the simple thing. Leave the switch hang, and you can just unplug it.

By the way, do you have a service manual? Do you know how to separate the key lock from the switch body?

 

[Ken Pevay]

In the meantime, why not just do the simple thing. Leave the switch hang, and you can just unplug it.

By the way, do you have a service manual? Do you know how to separate the key lock from the switch body?

I do have a service manual, and I did figure out how to remove the cylinder from the switch, by turning it in one direction and pressing the button. I'm just going to wait for the new switch, believe it or not it is onlt the second time I have had the car out this year and the last time was in May. My passion is cycling for fitness and at 71 I put my priority on that hence low use on the Barracuda. Thanks for oyur input.

 

[RedFish]

In the meantime, why not just do the simple thing. Leave the switch hang, and you can just unplug it.

By the way, do you have a service manual? Do you know how to separate the key lock from the switch body?

Good plan. Might find the whole problem in his hand. The later models with switch in the column would melt wires together at their harness connectors. Strange things would happen while the switch itself was OK.

 

[Bewy]

Those wires connected together should not cause your problem. That was probably done because a coil was used that did not need a bal res. Could be the ign sw....or are you getting ' dieseling' [ engine 'runs on' when switched off ].

 

[Ken Pevay]

So here I am back for some more advice. Today I finally installed my new ignition switch but before I did I fixed the soldered wires by cutting and connecting the wires properly that go to the ballast resistor. Plugged in the new switch and fired up the engine. Started up just fine let it run for a minute and switched it off and yup it continued to run. On a positive note I pulled the ballast resister wire and it stopped running. When I tried to shut if off with the switch it just keeps running no dieseling just a smooth constant run. This problem started all of a sudden car had been sitting probably 3 months without running and I did no work on the car. I have a battery shutoff that I disconnect every time I put it back into the garage. Not sure where to go from here?

 

[67Dart273]

You need a test lamp minimum and better yet a multimeter. NO EXCUSES. When I was a kid, there were no digi meters, and you could not buy a meter locally "cheap" like you can now just about anyplace. Also while you are at wherever, pick up a package of either jumper alligator clip wires or the clips themselves and make 2 or 3.

With either the engine running or the engine off, turn the key on and clip your meter or light to the key powered terminal of the ballast. Turn off the key, does it stay powered? Disconnect the ignition switch does it stay powered?

Is some of the wiring hacked up from someone adding or "fixing" things? That is one of the suspects. Any evidence, smell, or rippled melted wrapping, that shows part of the harness has suffered a short? Wires wrapped adjacent in a harness can melt together. Examine the fuse panel, for melt/ heat damage, or obvious modifications.

What does the vehicle have for an alternator? In cases of import vehicles (out of this country, I mean) or non OEM alternators, sometimes you can get into interesting feedback situations.

Anybody install anything aftermarket, such as an alarm?

I have forgotten the "combination" OldManMopar, Steve on here documented it once. You used to be able to do something. I think you turned on the hazards, tromped on the brake pedal, and turned the signal lever to one side. This would backfeed the accessory circuit, and you could listen to the radio while "Mom" was in the grocery store

 

[67Dart273]

The brown bypass jumpered to the blue "run" cannot cause this problem, unless the ignition switch is bad. Lots of guys do this in order to install ignition systems that do not use a ballast. The brown circuit only comes alive with the key in start. It feeds full battery power to the coil for starting. Many, many of us have done this, when installing such things as an MSD ignition, or in many (my) case, using such as a GM HEI module.

 

[Bewy]

Well now the coil is getting power with the ign sw in the 'off' position.....which is what it continues to run when the sw is turned to 'off'.

Most likely cause is the wires that you 'fixed' have somehow got mixed up. So I would get a wiring diagram & carefully trace/check the ign wires.

 

[RedFish]

I have forgotten the "combination" OldManMopar, Steve on here documented it once. You used to be able to do something. I think you turned on the hazards, tromped on the brake pedal, and turned the signal lever to one side. This would backfeed the accessory circuit, and you could listen to the radio while "Mom" was in the grocery store.

Yep, there are a few places where hot at all times gets quite cozy with hot in run. Bulkhead, alternator, starter,,, happy hunting.

 

[Ken Pevay]

Thanks so much all great responses and ideas on where to look for my problem, I do know that the last time I was doing stuff under the dash a few years ago, there are a few areas too look at starting with the fuse block which is somewhat degrigated. there is an after market under dash A/C unith that has been added. previous owner got the dash restored, but soon after I got the car fuel and tempature gauges stopped working. As much as I don't want to do it i may have to look at replacing the under dash wiring harness as the one in there is original and in poor shape in many places. I may be back with more questions but this will sit till winter when I can slowly work on it in my heated garage. I appreciate the great feedback!