I Said Never Again, I Bought Hedman Headers... Again.

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Ant

Ant

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Welp, in the past I said I'm never buying Hedman or Flowtech headers again, but this time I'm doing things differently. I have not bought long tubes this time and will be returning to a Y pipe for simplicity on my Ferd truck. So I bought myself a set of Hedman shorty headers, because I need to get things going. That's fine, I'll coat them myself and at least they are easier to deal with in the engine bay. So, that fixes the header problems that I complained about in the past, right? Nope! These suckers don't sit close to flat. More work for me to do again, and no, the gasket will not take care of it.

I've told myself no, but the other voice inside my head said yes. "Made in the USA" posted in the listing to make me feel a bit more positive. "Maybe the flange might sit flat like in the past instead of the last set" I told myself. I'm the fool now, I know I am as I read "Proud to say, made in USA" on the box. Embarrassment is what I feel, but it's not because of my decision, it's because of something as badly made like this is made in the USA with pride. It's like taking a dump in the toilet and saying "proudly made in the USA". Is to be proud, to lower our standards? It should not be.

Anyway, I'll have to do some work to get these flanges sitting flat enough so the gaskets can seal(This is not the first time I've had fix this). It just takes some extra time, but it is what it is. Oh, if anyone from QC or manufacturing at Hedman headers ever reads this post, I hope you step on a Lego.

It's hard to see in the photo, but the flanges is vertically curved.
20251028_130402.jpg

In the photo below you can see this does not sit flat at all. It looks worse in person, trust me, this would without a doubt be a leaker.
20251028_125916.jpg
 
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fratzog lover said:
Sad, it shouldnt be that hard to manufacture a flat surface.
Click to expand...

Not defending the work, but manufacturing a flat surface is actually pretty difficult without machining it. The larger the surface the harder it is.

Which is why all of these cheap headers don't have them.
 
I've had to draw-file dozens of misc sets before the manufacturers discovered a bloody surface grinder or whatever to straighten the welds on the flanges.
Used to have to weld up the valleys, and file down the hills.
Thankfully the better/newer quality header flanges are thicker and machined straight,
I still check every set before installation.
 
72bluNblu said:
Not defending the work, but manufacturing a flat surface is actually pretty difficult without machining it. The larger the surface the harder it is.

Which is why all of these cheap headers don't have them.
Click to expand...
A bench top belt sander will get it good enough, but instead each port looks like it was done individually, because of the differences in flatness and height. Yeah, I don't believe it's too hard to get a header flange close enough.
 
Ant said:
A bench top belt sander will get it good enough, but instead each port looks like it was done individually, because of the differences in flatness and height. Yeah, I don't believe it's too hard to get a header flange close enough.
Click to expand...

Sure, it’s a piece of cake. You just buy an extra machine to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars, then add an extra step to your manufacturing assembly line. The latter being more expensive, because it adds more time to the production process and of course ongoing maintenance for the additional machine (or machines, depending on how many of these you’re doing).

And of course it changes the QC process, because sometimes the weld will get surfaced through which will free the tube and send the whole thing back.

It’s just a belt sander for us, but for Hedman it’s a CNC machine with automation (and/or another employee(s)), floor space in the facility, a complicating step that will increase your QC kick back by whatever percentage, etc, etc.

Can it be done? Of course! It is done. But like everything else, it’s just money.

So we ***** about the QC on the cheap headers, and ***** about the cost of the expensive headers with better fit and finish. Sure, everybody wants cheap headers with great fit and finish, me too.
 
Having worked as a GM in the Automotive manufacturing industry for the last 25 years I can categorically say that this “failure mode” should have been envisaged and planned to be remedied within the DFMEA / PFMEA process. It’s just not good enough that product is delivered in this condition but if an organisation is not running a dedicated automotive quality system like QS9000 or TS16949 the chances of this and other issues occurring is very high. Failure to invest in the right type of capital equipment is also a “piss poor” excuse as well and if an organisation is unable to invest in the right type of equipment then it’s time to reevaluate their business plan / product proposition and even reconsider their place within a given industry.
 
When I wanted TTI shorty, they were on backorder. The guy at TTI said get the long tubes and slide them in from the bottom so I did and he was right. They tuck up in the crossmember real nice too.

TTI or Dougs. thats been confirmed over and over 1,000 times on this site.
 
On all my previous headers, I cut the flange between the ports.

This helps A LOT.

In fact, I've never run gaskets on headers.
 
72bluNblu said:
Sure, it’s a piece of cake. You just buy an extra machine to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars, then add an extra step to your manufacturing assembly line. The latter being more expensive, because it adds more time to the production process and of course ongoing maintenance for the additional machine (or machines, depending on how many of these you’re doing).

And of course it changes the QC process, because sometimes the weld will get surfaced through which will free the tube and send the whole thing back.

It’s just a belt sander for us, but for Hedman it’s a CNC machine with automation (and/or another employee(s)), floor space in the facility, a complicating step that will increase your QC kick back by whatever percentage, etc, etc.

Can it be done? Of course! It is done. But like everything else, it’s just money.

So we ***** about the QC on the cheap headers, and ***** about the cost of the expensive headers with better fit and finish. Sure, everybody wants cheap headers with great fit and finish, me too.
Click to expand...
Sure, you do have some good points. But I do believe Hedman has the capability of getting a somewhat flat sitting flange, they have fit ok in the past and were a much cheaper price. Then the quality started going down and my most recent set of headers which are the ones I'm replacing got more expensive and much worse for flange fitment, like worse than the new shorties I just bought. I do have other options, but everything that is regular steel available pretty much hovers around the same-ish price, but still it's a few, so options are limited. I can fix the flanges, it's the "Proud to say made in USA" I find funny, since as a mechanic I've seen cheaper exhaust components (for other cars) with better flanges.
 
YY1 said:
On all my previous headers, I cut the flange between the ports.

This helps A LOT.

In fact, I've never run gaskets on headers.
Click to expand...

I have never found it necessary, or any advantage to "section" the flange, any breed of vehicle or header.
If the header is designed with a slip tube, it's for a reason.
The sectioned flange invariably gets bent or somehow mis-aligned, a yard ape swings on them or something, and they can be a worse ***** to try and get back on.
One set I had to lower the car on them (crush), to get close enuff to use a pry bar.
Yada yada . .
Don't Do It ! !
 
I've never even heard of that.

Cutting the flange between the ports allows each newly created section of flange to snug up to the head surface independently.

I can see in the OP's pic that the tubes extend past the flange toward the head surface.
Some more than others.
Thus it appears a perfect candidate.

Do the OP's headers have a slip tube?
Did I miss that?

I've never owned headers with a slip tube.
 
The first thing I do (hopefully before they are coated,) is to saw the flange to pieces between ports.
I've never had sealing problems. (It does sometimes make it harder to start the header bolts)

Oh well, just saw YY1's post#13. I agree.
 

I think because I was taught to true/fair the mating surface by weld/file, they fit flat against the head to start with, twisting separate tubes wasn't necessary.
I was always able to use the flange gaskets supplied, or Mr Gskt replacements.
Never had leaks or needed Remflex.
My mentor wouldn't allow any header to leave with a leak or rattle.
I think I had to re-do 6 of the first 8 sets I installed, - had my *** kicked .
Learned to weld, lol
 
Ant said:
Welp, in the past I said I'm never buying Hedman or Flowtech headers again, but this time I'm doing things differently. I have not bought long tubes this time and will be returning to a Y pipe for simplicity on my Ferd truck. So I bought myself a set of Hedman shorty headers, because I need to get things going. That's fine, I'll coat them myself and at least they are easier to deal with in the engine bay. So, that fixes the header problems that I complained about in the past, right? Nope! These suckers don't sit close to flat. More work for me to do again, and no, the gasket will not take care of it.

I've told myself no, but the other voice inside my head said yes. "Made in the USA" posted in the listing to make me feel a bit more positive. "Maybe the flange might sit flat like in the past instead of the last set" I told myself. I'm the fool now, I know I am as I read "Proud to say, made in USA" on the box. Embarrassment is what I feel, but it's not because of my decision, it's because of something as badly made like this is made in the USA with pride. It's like taking a dump in the toilet and saying "proudly made in the USA". Is to be proud, to lower our standards? It should not be.

Anyway, I'll have to do some work to get these flanges sitting flat enough so the gaskets can seal(This is not the first time I've had fix this). It just takes some extra time, but it is what it is. Oh, if anyone from QC or manufacturing at Hedman headers ever reads this post, I hope you step on a Lego.

It's hard to see in the photo, but the flanges is vertically curved.
View attachment 1716472539
In the photo below you can see this does not sit flat at all. It looks worse in person, trust me, this would without a doubt be a leaker.
View attachment 1716472540
Click to expand...
The part where they merge to a 2.5 or 2.25 is terrible too.
 
I don't know but my cheapo jegs headers were pretty damn nice for cheapies. The flanges looked much better than yours and they don't hang quite as low as some other headers I have ran. They're only 1 5/8 but I wouldn't hesitate to buy another pair.
 
It was rumored that companies like Hooker had a "backdoor" header, ie Hedman?
Cyclone/Blackjack .
There was a whole bunch a names

I'm just pulling names, not specifically, no disrespect intended.
 
Inertia said:
It was rumored that companies like Hooker had a "backdoor" header, ie Hedman?
Cyclone/Blackjack .
There was a whole bunch a names

I'm just pulling names, not specifically, no disrespect intended.
Click to expand...
I think Kasler was one of those. San Bernardino Racing/Super Shops Hookers were $100+, Kaslers $39.95. Fit the 289 Ranchero just fine :thumbsup: . Hedmans I put on my F100 390FE easiest header install I ever did. 3 hours start to finish including modifying and welding the tail pipes to their new exhaust source.
 
Cal Tonsley said:
Having worked as a GM in the Automotive manufacturing industry for the last 25 years I can categorically say that this “failure mode” should have been envisaged and planned to be remedied within the DFMEA / PFMEA process. It’s just not good enough that product is delivered in this condition but if an organisation is not running a dedicated automotive quality system like QS9000 or TS16949 the chances of this and other issues occurring is very high. Failure to invest in the right type of capital equipment is also a “piss poor” excuse as well and if an organisation is unable to invest in the right type of equipment then it’s time to reevaluate their business plan / product proposition and even reconsider their place within a given industry.
Click to expand...
Finally... an educated voice of reason...

Cheers Cal!
 
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