63 Dodge Dart, now let me see;)

[George Jets]

if the outer lip measures the same on both 7" and 8" wheels you may just get away with the 255 tyre you have. that's because the extra 1" in width is on the inside so the tyre and sidewall bulge will be 'pulled' inward away from the outer wheel house. hope that makes sense and is at least worth a mockup
neil.

This just might work, get rid of the buldge in the tire, tire then goes straight up from the rim clearing the inner wheel well.

Not having to make up new rims and wating a month and a half for them to be made. ( they might not fit either... after all said and done.)


☆☆☆☆☆

 

[Dne007]

Let’s be a little optimistic, if they don’t work, go with 245’s But the wheels will be beautiful then focus on the fronts a little later.

 

[like_A_pike]

this !!
View attachment 1716474931

WITH “Smokey and the Bandit stuff”!

 

[mygasser]

Let’s be a little optimistic, if they don’t work, go with 245’s But the wheels will be beautiful then focus on the fronts a little later.

the good thing about going with more backspace rather than less is if it's too much a slim spacer can fine tune things to perfection
neil.

 

[Dne007]

I never could get the tach working on the speedo, so I just mounted a different one. Probably me, maybe eventually I'll have two working tachs. I can see the oil pressure gauge just fine, the pic kind distorts what I see. I'd be happy if they made a tach which only goes up to 4.5k Unfortunately this tach isn't able to be clocked, you know, like turn the bezel. I'm ok with it.
Another thing, why do speedos read up to 120MPH! I'd be happy with one that stops at 80.

 

[George Jets]

Here is what a 255 60/R15 looks like on a Torq Thrust II on a B Body with a 8" rim. Sidewall stands up straight.

^^^ 8 3/4 rear end.

Then the newer generation 8" rim with 3/4" more outer face offset. (so actually the backspace decreased by 3/4".)

Was hard to tell by looking at them off the car.

Sidewall still standing up straight, not Ballooned out.

____________

Your 7" rims with 255 60/15s

7" rim with 255 60/R15 sidewall ballooned out, ready to rub.

8" rim will square up that tire and push the excess to the inside.


☆☆☆☆☆

 

[Dne007]

Wow, thanks George! What a difference!! I'm feelin better now!! sigh, 6 weeks, maybe they'll surprise me and the rims will be here sooner

 

[abdywgn]

good luck with the fence! areas of ours are tilted in/out. only one piece was blown down in a wind storm. the neighbor to the west offered to continue her fence on that side. I could take mine down and have less to be concerned with, plus have a few more inches of driveway width.
looking forward to seeing the new wheel/tire combo!

 

[72bluNblu]

Here is what a 255 60/R15 looks like on a Torq Thrust II on a B Body with a 8" rim. Sidewall stands up straight.

View attachment 1716475030

^^^ 8 3/4 rear end.

Then the newer generation 8" rim with 3/4" more outer face offset. (so actually the backspace decreased by 3/4".)

Was hard to tell by looking at them off the car.

View attachment 1716475031

Sidewall still standing up straight, not Ballooned out.

____________

Your 7" rims with 255 60/15s

View attachment 1716475037

7" rim with 255 60/R15 sidewall ballooned out, ready to rub.

8" rim will square up that tire and push the excess to the inside.


☆☆☆☆☆

Oh boy.

These are the measurements for a 255/60/15. These measurements are taken when that tire is mounted on a 7.5" wide wheel.

So the two things we'll look at is the tread width, and the section width. The measuring rim is selected so the tread is flat, and being the part with actual tread molded on it that will not get wider than 8.5". Unless you mount it on a wheel that's very narrow or very wide, the tread width measurement won't change much. The section width is the sidewall bulge. It will change, because it has to make up the difference between the tread width and the wheel width.

A 15x7" wheel is 8" wide outside lip to outside lip. A 15x8" wheel is 9" wide outside lip to outside lip.

So here's the deal. The section is 10.2" on a 7.5" wide wheel. That section width will be slighter WIDER on an 8" wheel. And it will be slightly NARROWER on a 7" wide wheel. It has to be, because the wheel will pull it in to the rim lip.

So putting a 255/60/15 on a 15x7 will mean MORE CLEARANCE than if mounted on a 15x8" wheel, assuming the same wheel offset (centerline). The sidewall will appear more bulged, but it's not gotten wider, it's actually gotten narrower because the wheel is narrower. Conversely, on the wider wheel the sidewall will appear more vertical, but it's still wider!

The tire of course has to stay centered on the wheel, so the overhang from the lip is the same on the inside and the outside. No "excess pushed to the inside", that's not a thing.

And that's why you have to pay attention to people's wheel widths when they say a certain tire fits. Because a 255 on a 15x7 is narrower than a 255 on a 15x8. Not by a lot, but by enough to make a difference.

Regardless with a mini-tub and spring relocation on that car a 255 will have room to spare no matter what wheel width it's mounted on, as long as the backspace is correct to center it in the tub.

 

[Dne007]

OMG, that's a lot of information!!! Absolutely amazing~~ I hope in month or so to give a good report

Oh boy.

These are the measurements for a 255/60/15. These measurements are taken when that tire is mounted on a 7.5" wide wheel.

View attachment 1716475042

So the two things we'll look at is the tread width, and the section width. The measuring rim is selected so the tread is flat, and being the part with actual tread molded on it that will not get wider than 8.5". Unless you mount it on a wheel that's very narrow or very wide, the tread width measurement won't change much. The section width is the sidewall bulge. It will change, because it has to make up the difference between the tread width and the wheel width.

A 15x7" wheel is 8" wide outside lip to outside lip. A 15x8" wheel is 9" wide outside lip to outside lip.

So here's the deal. The section is 10.2" on a 7.5" wide wheel. That section width will be slighter WIDER on an 8" wheel. And it will be slightly NARROWER on a 7" wide wheel. It has to be, because the wheel will pull it in to the rim lip.

So putting a 255/60/15 on a 15x7 will mean MORE CLEARANCE than if mounted on a 15x8" wheel, assuming the same wheel offset (centerline). The sidewall will appear more bulged, but it's not gotten wider, it's actually gotten narrower because the wheel is narrower. Conversely, on the wider wheel the sidewall will appear more vertical, but it's still wider!

The tire of course has to stay centered on the wheel, so the overhang from the lip is the same on the inside and the outside. No "excess pushed to the inside", that's not a thing.

And that's why you have to pay attention to people's wheel widths when they say a certain tire fits. Because a 255 on a 15x7 is narrower than a 255 on a 15x8. Not by a lot, but by enough to make a difference.

Regardless with a mini-tub and spring relocation on that car a 255 will have room to spare no matter what wheel width it's mounted on, as long as the backspace is correct to center it in the tub.

 

[mopowers]

So putting a 255/60/15 on a 15x7 will mean MORE CLEARANCE than if mounted on a 15x8" wheel, assuming the same wheel offset (centerline). The sidewall will appear more bulged, but it's not gotten wider, it's actually gotten narrower because the wheel is narrower. Conversely, on the wider wheel the sidewall will appear more vertical, but it's still wider!

The tire of course has to stay centered on the wheel, so the overhang from the lip is the same on the inside and the outside. No "excess pushed to the inside", that's not a thing.

I could be wrong, but I think he was assuming the OP went from a 7" wheel to an 8" wheel, but had the extra inch entirely on the back side (i.e., Backspace of the 7" wheel +1"). Sure the overall section would be wider, but there'd be less of it sticking out toward the outer side. Something like this (snip below)? You can probably math out how much room it would gain the OP - probably not a whole lot.

If it was me, I'd see if there's enough spline on the axles to cut and re-machine the c-clip groove, the cut the corresponding amount off the axle tubes. Not sure why you'd relocate the springs and install minitubs, just to use a stock width axle with 7" wide wheels. To take advantage of the minitub and spring relocation with a stock length axle, you'd need more backspace than a typical 7" wide wheel allows for.

 

[Killer6]

.....Oh boy........lets start with the drums interfering with the edge of the shoes or the backing plates or the heads of the studs on the parking brake strut or cable,.....or a thousand other reasons why NOT to dick w/the axles......

 

[72bluNblu]

I could be wrong, but I think he was assuming the OP went from a 7" wheel to an 8" wheel, but had the extra inch entirely on the back side (i.e., Backspace of the 7" wheel +1"). Sure the overall section would be wider, but there'd be less of it sticking out toward the outer side. Something like this (snip below)? You can probably math out how much room it would gain the OP - probably not a whole lot.

If it was me, I'd see if there's enough spline on the axles to cut and re-machine the c-clip groove, the cut the corresponding amount off the axle tubes. Not sure why you'd relocate the springs and install minitubs, just to use a stock width axle with 7" wide wheels. To take advantage of the minitub and spring relocation with a stock length axle, you'd need more backspace than a typical 7" wide wheel allows for.

View attachment 1716475127

Honestly I'm not entirely sure what he was talking about. He seemed more concerned about the sidewall bulge than the actual backspace or offset of the wheel.

Despite the appearance of the thing, the 255 on a 7" wheel is narrower than on an 8" wheel, regardless of what the sidewall looks like. And since the OP is talking about custom backspace wheels, well, yeah.

.....Oh boy........lets start with the drums interfering with the edge of the shoes or the backing plates or the heads of the studs on the parking brake strut or cable,.....or a thousand other reasons why NOT to dick w/the axles......

Yeah exactly. And again, the OP is talking about custom wheels. So why shorten the axles and the housing to gain a tiny amount of space (only what's "extra" on the axles) when you just order the proper wheel backspace?

 

[mygasser]

Oh boy.

These are the measurements for a 255/60/15. These measurements are taken when that tire is mounted on a 7.5" wide wheel.

View attachment 1716475042

So the two things we'll look at is the tread width, and the section width. The measuring rim is selected so the tread is flat, and being the part with actual tread molded on it that will not get wider than 8.5". Unless you mount it on a wheel that's very narrow or very wide, the tread width measurement won't change much. The section width is the sidewall bulge. It will change, because it has to make up the difference between the tread width and the wheel width.

A 15x7" wheel is 8" wide outside lip to outside lip. A 15x8" wheel is 9" wide outside lip to outside lip.

So here's the deal. The section is 10.2" on a 7.5" wide wheel. That section width will be slighter WIDER on an 8" wheel. And it will be slightly NARROWER on a 7" wide wheel. It has to be, because the wheel will pull it in to the rim lip.

So putting a 255/60/15 on a 15x7 will mean MORE CLEARANCE than if mounted on a 15x8" wheel, assuming the same wheel offset (centerline). The sidewall will appear more bulged, but it's not gotten wider, it's actually gotten narrower because the wheel is narrower. Conversely, on the wider wheel the sidewall will appear more vertical, but it's still wider!

The tire of course has to stay centered on the wheel, so the overhang from the lip is the same on the inside and the outside. No "excess pushed to the inside", that's not a thing.

And that's why you have to pay attention to people's wheel widths when they say a certain tire fits. Because a 255 on a 15x7 is narrower than a 255 on a 15x8. Not by a lot, but by enough to make a difference.

Regardless with a mini-tub and spring relocation on that car a 255 will have room to spare no matter what wheel width it's mounted on, as long as the backspace is correct to center it in the tub.

the offset/backspace is different in this case so despite going to a wider wheel the fact that the outer edge of the wheel remains the same in relation to the arch means the tyre once 'stretched' slightly more onto the wider rim will be more inset on the car. you said yourself the tyre stays centred on the rim, so on a wider rim the outer tread edge is further 'in' from the outer edge of the rim. so yes the sidewall and tread (outside edge) 'will' be further in in relation to the arch.
neil.

 

[72bluNblu]

the offset/backspace is different in this case so despite going to a wider wheel the fact that the outer edge of the wheel remains the same in relation to the arch means the tyre once 'stretched' slightly more onto the wider rim will be more inset on the car. you said yourself the tyre stays centred on the rim, so on a wider rim the outer tread edge is further 'in' from the outer edge of the rim. so yes the sidewall and tread (outside edge) 'will' be further in in relation to the arch.
neil.

No mention of the backspace or offset change was made in the post I was addressing, except for the wheel that was on a DIFFERENT CAR.

Even if you use the 3/4" number that was tossed out, it may not actually improve the clearance vs the 7" wheel. The 255 is 10.2" at the section. If it's on a 7" wheel, that means it will have no more than 1.1" of tire bulge. Slightly less, because the tire will get squeezed and the 10.2" is a measurement from a 7.5" wheel. On an 8" wheel, a 255 will have at least .6" of sidewall bulge overhanging the rim. Maybe more, because that wheel is wider than the measuring wheel. But if you add a 1/4" to the outer wheel lip location for the 8" wheel offset change, you're at .85" from the original lip location. And that assumes the tire isn't squeezed and therefore narrower on the 7" rim, and it hasn't gotten wider on the wider 8" wheel. 10.2" is only the measurement on a 7.5" wheel, it will be less on a 7" and it may be more on an 8". Which means if the offset change is 3/4", there's still almost nothing between the location of the sidewall on those different wheels. If the overhang on the 7" wheel is 1" and the overhang and the extra 1/4" is .95 on the 8" wheel, it's still gonna rub.

But again, the OP is using a 5.25" backspace, so it's not going to be an issue.

 

[Dne007]

I had a good friend come over, so I got these three out for a welcome to him. He (he's 6'6")was most interested in my Dart as he had been following me on our Text messaging group. The other two or three not shown ('92 Jurassic park jeep, '71 Triumph TR6 with miata drive, and my dads '76 Ford Tractor) were in other areas.
Good news, got the Dart fully registered now, insurance and paper plate for now. I thought I was going to have to get it inspected first, but no, present the application for classic plates and that was it! No inspection necessary~ it's great!! While waiting on the rims, I put my '67 Mustang wheels on the Dart(Cragars with 245/60s), so can at least drive the dart. Oh, the price of the new wheels are 450 per wheel, previously quoted 550. Felt a little better.

As for a possible next project which I'm not ready physically~ my husband (Gary) would like a '68 Camaro as it was his first car, but Camaro's carry such a high price tag even ones ready for the scrap yard! There are just way too many Camaro's anyway.
dne007 ;)

 

[toolmanmike]

I had a good friend come over, so I got these three out for a welcome to him. He (he's 6'6")was most interested in my Dart as he had been following me on our Text messaging group. The other two or three not shown ('92 Jurassic park jeep, '71 Triumph TR6 with miata drive, and my dads '76 Ford Tractor) were in other areas.
Good news, got the Dart fully registered now, insurance and paper plate for now. I thought I was going to have to get it inspected first, but no, present the application for classic plates and that was it! No inspection necessary~ it's great!! While waiting on the rims, I put my '67 Mustang wheels on the Dart(Cragars with 245/60s), so can at least drive the dart. Oh, the price of the new wheels are 450 per wheel, previously quoted 550. Felt a little better.

As for a possible next project which I'm not ready physically~ my husband (Gary) would like a '68 Camaro as it was his first car, but Camaro's carry such a high price tag even ones ready for the scrap yard! There are just way too many Camaro's anyway.
dne007 ;)

View attachment 1716476062

View attachment 1716476063

View attachment 1716476064

That's quite a line up. Your Dart is my favorite (of course)

 

[Dne007]

That's quite a line up. Your Dart is my favorite (of course)

 

[mygasser]

$200 saving on the new wheels? that's a lot of gas' you can burn now the dart's road legal, lol
neil.

 

[GGs66GT]

So how about a picture of the Dart with those Mustang wheels ? Just wondering .

 

[Dne007]

Hey Glen, yeah, I didn't have them on for that picture, but I do have the stang wheels on now and promise to get a picture tomorrow

So how about a picture of the Dart with those Mustang wheels ? Just wondering .

 

[GGs66GT]

Cool thanks

 

[JDMopar]

Your friend is 6'6"? That's a good sized feller...lol. My Urologist is 6' 9" and ducks when he goes thru a door! Whenever I see someone that tall, I always think about the old Keebler Cookie commercial from the 70's. "It makes a tall man proud to be two Elves"

 

[Dne007]

Glen was asking for a pic of the rear wheels from my 67 mustang on the dart, those tires are 245/60. The cragars have a 4” bs
Also installed the hood insulation which really helped quiet the engine sound in the cab.
Supposed to be in the 30’s in the morning

 

[abdywgn]

here is an affordable 68 Camaro (same color as my first one)
https://www.amazon.com/AMT-AMT868-12-25-Camaro/dp/B00GA3KRYU/?tag=fabo03-20
(tried link, doesn't open. but it's $25.)