cannot get this engine to run

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trudysduster

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Tried to fire this engine up and cant get it to run. It seems like it wants to but just not there. I had everything out as you can tell by the resto thread and I hate this. It is getting fire and it is getting fuel. The timing is right. I checked the schematic and it seems like the wiring is right. I just sent Tyler down to get a ballast resistor and a new ECM. Plugs are new and gapped right. Coil is hooked up right. It starts to run just a little and stops. it is doing some backfiring out the carb. I have moved the dist. all over and still not firing. Engine is grounded and so is the ECM.Anybody have any suggestions. I am tired and apparently missed something here.
 
checked the dist. with #1 up, the rotor is pointing to # 1 plug wire. It seems like this thing would run if the key stayed in the start pos. I had this problem with my Duster and I cannot remember what I did. It seems like it had to do with the ballast resistor. I just put a new one on and a new ECM. no change. The new ECM has only 4 pins where the old one had 5. But the paper says that is correct for Chrysler applications. pin replaced 5 pin one.
 
checked the dist. with #1 up, the rotor is pointing to # 1 plug wire. It seems like this thing would run if the key stayed in the start pos. I had this problem with my Duster and I cannot remember what I did. It seems like it had to do with the ballast resistor. I just put a new one on and a new ECM. no change. The new ECM has only 4 pins where the old one had 5. But the paper says that is correct for Chrysler applications. pin replaced 5 pin one.

Bypass the ballast and see if it runs.
(Just long enough to fire it up for a few)
 
Hmm interesting, backfiring out of the carb..Let me ask this question, have you double checked your firing order? One pair of switch wires could cause this, been there...had the exact same issue on my 408 when we tried firing it up, I had switched the 1 and 3 wires by accident and all it would do was back fire and shoot flames up through the carb.
 
Don't forget that your engine comes to TDC twice for every full rotation of the distributor. You could have your #1 piston at TDC on the exhaust stroke.
 
I had the same problem with my Duster. I bypassed the ballast and it would run. So I swapped it and then it worked.
Try bypassing, if it runs you know where the problem is. Either the new one is hooked up wrong or the wiring to it is old and faulty. Oh, and the dist can be 180 of even though cylinder one is up and the rotor point to it. You need to either put your thumb over that plug whole and make sure you got compression when it comes up, or remove the valve cover and check the rockers. Might be old news, just trying to help out!

Good luck!
 
I appreciate the help. I checked the dist. it is not 180 out. I checked the plug wires. 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. Bypassed the ballast resistor. I hooked the blue wire to the 2 brown wires and it did not change. It seems like when I move the key from the start pos. it will quit. It tries to run while in the start pos but when I let off the key it seems like I kill the power to it. I know this is something simple but cannot remember what I did to cure this on the Duster.
 
When the key is in the start position you have a hot wire to the coil, so in that position the ballast is already bypassed actually. When you release it everything goes through the ballast and connecting wires again.
 
Tried to fire this engine up and cant get it to run. It seems like it wants to but just not there. I had everything out as you can tell by the resto thread and I hate this. It is getting fire and it is getting fuel. The timing is right. I checked the schematic and it seems like the wiring is right. I just sent Tyler down to get a ballast resistor and a new ECM. Plugs are new and gapped right. Coil is hooked up right. It starts to run just a little and stops. it is doing some backfiring out the carb. I have moved the dist. all over and still not firing. Engine is grounded and so is the ECM.Anybody have any suggestions. I am tired and apparently missed something here.

check and make sure the wires run and start from the key switch are right it will start and run if there not right but as soon as you leave off the key you stop getting power to the run wire from the switch

just an Idea had it happen to me
 
How have you confirmed that it is not 180 out? If you have not done it this way, I suggest it. Remove #1 plug. bump the engine with the starter until you feel compression trying to blow your finger out of the hole. Then manually rotate the balancer until it lines up with 0 degrees and check rotor position. The symptoms you describe sound like 180 out. I have had one kick my *** before that was 180 out and I had "check it" several times before.
 
I took a set of alligator clips and jumped from the starter relay terminal to the ballast resistor where the 2 brown wires are and it started for a short time. removed the jumper and it quit. I have the 2 brown wires on the top right terminal of the ballast resistor. I don't even know if they are on the right terminal. That is what I got from the schematic. It still seems like it wants to run if the ignition could stay in the start pos. This is a new ballast resistor. just bought it tonight. I guess it is good.
 
How have you confirmed that it is not 180 out? If you have not done it this way, I suggest it. Remove #1 plug. bump the engine with the starter until you feel compression trying to blow your finger out of the hole. Then manually rotate the balancer until it lines up with 0 degrees and check rotor position. The symptoms you describe sound like 180 out. I have had one kick my *** before that was 180 out and I had "check it" several times before.

X 2 been there before and could have kicked myself for all the time wasted.......:banghead:
 
I checked the timing. I pulled the plug and the compression blew my thumb out. I looked down in #1 and saw the top of the piston. I checked the rotor and it was sitting at the # 1 plug wire. I even turned the dist. 180 out to make sure and it just turned over real fast and nothing. so I brought # 1 back up and turned it back around. It ran for a short time until I removed the alligator clip from the ballast resistor.
 
I am tired. I am going to walk away from this for tonight. I will look at all your suggestions in the morning and try all of them. I personally thing it has to do with electrical. I have had this problem before when I put the Duster together but cannot remember what I did. I appreciate all the suggestions and I will try all of them, just not tonight. I am tired. Thanks, Bill
 
There is no need to guess and fight with your engine. Eliminate as many variables as you can Get right down to basics

COMPRESSION. Engine needs to be in good enough shape to run. I would guess a poor old oil burner would still run down to 80? PSI maybe less. So run a compression check / leakdown

FUEL Engine needs good fresh fuel. If this is fuel been sitting for awhile get some fresh fuel and prime right down the carb throats. On any fireup where I think this is a problem, I rig a siphon from above in a "safe" container hung from above.

SPARK. Engine must have GOOD HOT spark and at the right TIME

A SIDE NOTE. This includes CAM TIMING. Is there any question the cam might have slipped time? You can check this in several ways. First, wrench the crank back / forth with a wrench and watch the rotor, and see how far you can move the crank before the rotor turns. After you do this 2 / 3 times you'll "feel" the chain play

LOOK IN the service manual. There is a procedure in there to check cam timing, if you have a "hotter" cam you can look up the specs and check intake opening event which is usually close to TDC some degrees.

SPARK AND TIMING

CHECK spark. "Rig" a spark gap and check spark right at the coil. Should be a nice hot fat spark about 3/8--1/2 inch

TIMING. There is NO NEED to "guess" about 180 out on timing. The ONLY exception to this is that a couple of members on different forums have somehow gotten reverse grind marine cams and that can certainly throw a wrench

TO CHECK timing do ONE of two things.

METHOD ONE

If either valve cover is off, bring the timing marks up on TDC and see whether both no 1 or both no 6 valves are closed. Look carefully because on one of these, they will be "equally" (or about) equally open. IF IN DOUBT wrench the engine and see on which cylinder, 1 or 6, both valves move.

The cylinder on which both valves are closed is the cylinder which is FIRING and the one which the rotor should be indexed to. So if both no1 are closed and the rotor is pointing to no6, it ain't gonna run. Read on for the rest of the story

METHOD TWO

One popular way is to remove the no1 plug, stick your finger in the hole and bump the engine around until you feel compression. You might have to do this a couple of times. When you START to feel compression, watch for the timing marks which are "coming up." Bring the engine NOT to TDC but rather to where you want initial timing. On a bone stock 318, you want at least 10 BTC. On something a bit hotter cam, you want more like 15, and maybe 20BTC

So set the timing marks at this point. Now with the vacuum advance "in the middle" of it's movement range, remove / replace the cap until you can determine by looking, to which plug tower the rotor is pointing. The rotor will be (small block) approaching the cap tower going CW. THIS TOWER is where you want the no1 plug.

NOW rotate the dist. CW (retard) a bit and slowly return it CCW (advanced) until the reluctor tip is centered in the pickup coil. When you get good at this, you can even "wiggle" the thing a bit with key on and produce a spark.

IF YOU have points, do the same above, but rotate back CCW until the points just open. Determine this with a lamp, meter, or with key on, look for a spark.

SNUG down the distributor just a bit.

If you have done the above correctly you do NOT have to fight with the engine. Make sure the plugs are clean and dry. Make sure the cap / rotor is clean, dry, has no carbon tracks. Make sure you have good plug wires and a good coil wire.

If you have done all these things it will explode to life IMMEDIATELY
 
I checked the timing. I pulled the plug and the compression blew my thumb out. I looked down in #1 and saw the top of the piston. I checked the rotor and it was sitting at the # 1 plug wire. I even turned the dist. 180 out to make sure and it just turned over real fast and nothing. so I brought # 1 back up and turned it back around. It ran for a short time until I removed the alligator clip from the ballast resistor.

This does nothing. All this tells you is that "the piston is up"

will this run at all 180 out.

No. Read what Rusty and I posted. You MUST be on the compression stroke. That only happens every other crank revolution.
 
I took a set of alligator clips and jumped from the starter relay terminal to the ballast resistor where the 2 brown wires are and it started for a short time. removed the jumper and it quit. I have the 2 brown wires on the top right terminal of the ballast resistor. I don't even know if they are on the right terminal. That is what I got from the schematic. It still seems like it wants to run if the ignition could stay in the start pos. This is a new ballast resistor. just bought it tonight. I guess it is good.

I did not see this. This indicates a wiring problem or a bad ballast / bad connection, etc.
 
I took a set of alligator clips and jumped from the starter relay terminal to the ballast resistor where the 2 brown wires are and it started for a short time. removed the jumper and it quit. I have the 2 brown wires on the top right terminal of the ballast resistor. I don't even know if they are on the right terminal. That is what I got from the schematic. It still seems like it wants to run if the ignition could stay in the start pos. This is a new ballast resistor. just bought it tonight. I guess it is good.

Your not getting fire in the 'run" position, this will not have anything to do with being 180* out, No engine will run 180* out, at least not from what i'v ever seen.

You by-passed the ballast & it ran but then quit? Did you disconnect both plugs from the ballast? Sounds like whats happening is your not getting power to the coil in the "run" position.
 
This exact thing happened on my Dart, it would start but right as it went back to the run position, it would die. Finally figured out that the keyed ignition switch went bad. Replaced it and it started and ran just fine.
 
This exact thing happened on my Dart, it would start but right as it went back to the run position, it would die. Finally figured out that the keyed ignition switch went bad. Replaced it and it started and ran just fine.

Thats what i was thinking.
 
Sounds like the key switch.Sounds like you already did this.But leave your key switch in the off position.Then run a wire from the + on the battery to the + on your coil.Then jump the relay and it should start.If it starts you have a bad key switch,relay,or ballast.You already replaced the ballast so it sounds like the key switch is bad.And sounds like it cranking when you try and start it, so it sounds like the relay is good.
 
I am going to try all this probably Sat. This engine was rebuilt by me about a year ago. I had no problems with the engine all last year driving it sometimes 200 miles round trips to car shows. In Oct. of last year, we took the car apart to do the restorations that we are doing now. So, there is nothing wrong with the internal workings of this engine as 67dart273 outlined above about cam timing and all that. This motor was pulled running fine and put on an engine stand for the last 5 months. The only thing we did was pull the dist. out to get it in the engine bay with the tranny on it. So either the dist. was put back in right or 180 out. I said it was running a little at one point so with that being said, the dist. has to be in correctly because you just said there is no way it will run at 180 out. The key switch problem I don't know about. The steering column was pulled, then put back in the same way it came out. could it have gone bad sitting, maybe. I am going to try each and everything mentioned to figure this out. I just think that with everything being pulled out of this car, it is probably a wiring problem. But I still have a problem with the backfiring. That tells me something is in the timing also. I am going to start from the timing and work forward. We have just been going so hard on this for the last week, I am tired. This car has just about been completely put back together from a shell in the last week. I have missed something. thanks for the help. I will let you know what the result is if what you all have said works. Bill
 
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