Great article on owning a muscle car

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good arguments and as usual, emotions for sure. I think of my grandson learning to drive in his mom's modern Dodge ( so the emblems says). she drives 100 mi trip every day to work. mostly 4 lane state road. she drives like a Nascar guy on bad drugs. he learns to drive with H S student driving class AND mom! he drives with her ( learners permit), like a bat out of hell, flies up to a s top sign almost sliding to a s top! he learns from her. HA

put him in one of my old mopars and he would have to learn how to drive all over again. drum brakes, manual everything, BUT yes, there would be NO electronic distractions, NOT even radio! ha

point I make is all cars are dangerous, driving is dangerous. and if anyone does not think our high horse, old cars don't lend an element of possible danger, them I wonder what they smoke?

the first car I restored was back in bout '86. AAR cuda 4 speed/ the quarter had already been replaced 3 times! you know, the one that when that car gets away from you, it swings around!!! ha that's just a "slow: wreck! ha

I say cars are not dangerous, the drivers are!! sorta like the gun argument, guns don't kill, people do.
 
moparmat2000 said:
As far as the rust issue goes, yeah that goes without saying. If these cars are old, they are gonna have rust issues. Thank God for AMD and others repopping the pieces to fix this issue. And who in their right mind is NOT going to park their restored classic in a garage. Oh yeah, im gonna leave my barracuda parked on the street, or under a carport at night. I think this article is meant for joe average who really would like one but doesnt realize the upkeep, and care that would be required in driving, storing, maintaining, and insuring one of these. Hell i know what it takes but then again, i have been messing with these types of cars since the mid 1980s. The article may have done a favor, in keeping these types of vehicles away from people that probably shouldent own them. Look in the cars left for dead thread. Theres quite a few pix from recent times of smashed up muscle cars of which i can only assume an inexperienced driver totaled for the reasons though a bit imbellished mentioned in the article.
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I don't have much choice in the matter right now. My 67 Dart lives under a cover next to the garage because I just don't have any other space for it. I know it's hard on it and I can see the rust starting, but I'm just biding my time as I know I needed to replace some of those panels when I bought the car to begin with. I figured I'll just replace what I can with fiberglass so I don't have to worry about it again.

I'm only 28, but I grew up with old cars and have had no problems. You just drive within the car's limits and don't do stupid stuff. I can't say I haven't done my share of stupid stuff, but I at least try not to do it with people around so I'm the only one in danger. My first car was a 71 Vette, then I bought my Dart. Had a 2000 XKR for a while, but sold it because it was an auto and just kind of boring. It was a beautiful car and very nice to drive, but just not as fun as a stick shift. I now daily drive an 04 Viper. I have 550+ hp and 13" wide rear tires that you can turn pretty much up to highway speed with no traction control aside from my brain. All cars are dangerous, it's how you drive them that makes the difference. Drive the Viper like a normal car and guess what? It acts like a normal car. The Dart and Vette are no different. Drive them like a reasonable person and they don't operate any differently than a modern car. Would they be more likely to hurt me in a crash? Probably, but I do what I can to avoid getting in one to begin with. I pay attention when I drive. That's not to say that some accident couldn't happen that I can't avoid, but the risk is worth it to me for the enjoyment of driving a classic.
 
I also disagree with some of the article, but also totally agree with some of it.
For one, I don't own a classic Mopar so it can sit in the garage hiding it's paint and body from real life because I don't own classic cars to retain a retail value.
I own them to drive the **** out of them until they are too far gone to be worth driving, and when that happens I would like to just find another one to fix up and drive the **** out of that one too.

The safety concerns in the designs are obvious and part of the deal.
As far as horsepower being dangerous, as already said is all in the driver and the ability to make driving decisions based on what the vehicle AND it's driver is capable of.
(which a lot of people can't do these days)
Most of the people I see driving these days would bury a 400hp car into something in the first 5 minutes of driving if they actually used the power they had.
Most of them don't even know which way their wheels are pointing unless the car is rolling.
You see it all the time when someone pulls out from a side street and has to correct to stay in their own lane. (or sometimes don't stay in it)
You see over and under corrections all the time, and there is no room for that if you are actually using the horsepower available. (especially true with rear wheel drive)
The streets are just filled to the brim with steering wheel turners that don't have a clue how to actually drive.

Now if I had a late 60's all numbers matching darn near perfect big block Roadrunner again, it would change the story a bit and I would have to agree with (most) of what the article says about weather protection, insurance and maintenance.
It would also be a "dangerous" car with the wrong feet on the pedals.
Wouldn't be a daily driver though either.
 
I agree with a lot of the comments. A lot has to do with the person driving. My first car at 19 was a 1967 GTS Dart that was 1.5 years old with a 4 speed, manual steering and manual brakes. I still have it. A car magazine editor told me that was a lot of car for a 19 year old. Maybe but we both survived. Totally different driving old muscle car verse new one. You have to me more like part of the car on the old muscle cars and understand the rough edges that haven't be smoothed out by modern tech but that's part of the fun.
 
I bought my first muscle car at age 17. It was a 70Swinger340-4spd.3.55s with Rally Suspension, and E-70-14s. It was incredibly dangerous. And incredibly much fun.It earned me the nickname of "ditcher" in grade 10, cuz that beast was always putting me in there. But the boys all lined up for thrilling rides, and coughed up gas money.Boy, she was hard on tires. I worked after school,and Saturdays, at Canadian Tire, so I could get deals on rubber. In the 4years I owned it, I seem to remember installing 7 sets of rear tires. I did finally learn to keep the back, in the back.I sold that worn out puppy in spring of 75, to another young kid,who was thrilled.
BTW;That Dart had great power disc brakes. Trouble was those tires. Those "Polyglass" Es were pure junk, loc-em-up at 50 miles an hour, and flat spot 'em at will. And you know when they're smokin' on the front;you can't steer right? Oh look, here comes the ditch again!
 
AJ/FormS said:
I bought my first muscle car at age 17. It was a 70Swinger340-4spd.3.55s with Rally Suspension, and E-70-14s. It was incredibly dangerous. And incredibly much fun.It earned me the nickname of "ditcher" in grade 10, cuz that beast was always putting me in there. But the boys all lined up for thrilling rides, and coughed up gas money.Boy, she was hard on tires. I worked after school,and Saturdays, at Canadian Tire, so I could get deals on rubber. In the 4years I owned it, I seem to remember installing 7 sets of rear tires. I did finally learn to keep the back, in the back.I sold that worn out puppy in spring of 75, to another young kid,who was thrilled.
BTW;That Dart had great power disc brakes. Trouble was those tires. Those Es were pure junk, loc-em-up at 50 miles an hour, and flat spot 'em at will. And you know when they're smokin' on the front;you can't steer right? Oh look, here comes the ditch again!
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I had 5 cars and trucks by the time I as was 15, but my first actual "muscle car" was a 440 Mag 1969 Roadrunner. (at 21 years old)
Bought it in 1976 for 1,200 and it was really close to perfect condition.

Out of all those cars and trucks I have driven and owned over the years I only wrecked one, and it was a friends GTO convertible that ran into an apartment complex building when the owner's girlfriend kept wanting me to hot rod it so she stuck her foot on top of my gas pedal foot and held it down.
The rear end came around and we went right across the front lawn and BAM!
We hit the corner of the building and knocked a guy right on the other side of that wall right out of his bed. :D

I got to drive a lot of 60's Vettes because my father in law was the President of the local Corvette Club and had 11 of them.
My two favorites were the metallic blue 66 stingray 454 with a four speed, and his 1953 Corvette "Hurricane" serial number 03 (1.5 million dollar car at the time)

He had 5 kids and gave each one their pick of a selected group for high school graduation.
The 66 Stinray and the 53 were not in the choices. :D
My wife picked a factory gold metallic 63 split window for her graduation. (we were not together yet then though) but she still had it when we met.
 
AJ/FormS said:
I bought my first muscle car at age 17. It was a 70Swinger340-4spd.3.55s with Rally Suspension, and E-70-14s. It was incredibly dangerous. And incredibly much fun.It earned me the nickname of "ditcher" in grade 10, cuz that beast was always putting me in there. But the boys all lined up for thrilling rides, and coughed up gas money.Boy, she was hard on tires. I worked after school,and Saturdays, at Canadian Tire, so I could get deals on rubber. In the 4years I owned it, I seem to remember installing 7 sets of rear tires. I did finally learn to keep the back, in the back.I sold that worn out puppy in spring of 75, to another young kid,who was thrilled.
BTW;That Dart had great power disc brakes. Trouble was those tires. Those Es were pure junk, loc-em-up at 50 miles an hour, and flat spot 'em at will. And you know when they're smokin' on the front;you can't steer right? Oh look, here comes the ditch again!
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Yeah, I don't know why people bag on the brakes in the old cars. Maybe they just feel better than they are, but I drove a 69 Charger with power drums, not even disks, and despite it being a 4000 pound beast, that thing would put you through the windshield if you weren't careful. My Dart feels like it stops pretty dang well, even just with manual brakes if you hit them hard enough. Tires are usually the ultimate limiting factor. if you can lock your wheels, bigger brakes won't make you stop any better in an emergency situation, they'll just be more resistant to fade over repeated heavy use (like tracking the car). If you can't lock your tires, you could probably use a little more powerful brakes.
 
Article is meh... I agree with the others when they say its mainly the nut behind the wheel.
I drove my duster when it started to snow a couple of months ago. I drove better then half the people out there with their "modern" cars.
I have manual steering and manual disc brakes. Everyone seem to freak out about the white stuff.
Then had a lady in a newer 00'-something minivan lose it in front of me. I stopped to see if she was ok, she was. appearently she turned a little to sharp and started to slip so she naturally tried mash the brake. After seeing her off I continued on 15 more miles in the rain/snow mixture and with 1-2 inches of slush on the road with no issues. You'd think that living in northern Utah, people would know how drive in the snow...
I learned my lesson a long time ago on how to drive in the snow. I lost control in a 1984 Dodge Ramcharger, because I thought I was cool and that I can drive in 3 inches of snow at 70 mph. I ended up in the divider between the freeways in about foot of snow (after doing a couple of 360's). I then stuck it in 4WD (again I was young and stupid) and crawled my way out.
That was when I was 20 yrs old, I'm 37 now and much wiser (so I tell myself, my wife says otherwise) but I have never lost control since then.
 
My car(s) are daily driven and very reliable. But I built them and used Chrysler's technology. No fancy hot rodding stuff or "high performance" things to cause problems.
That being said, I think the best advice he gives to the novice is be ready to learn the "ancient technology".
I can't speak to the difficulty of finding someone to work on them. But I think it is nice to warn people.
Snip..
Many shops will not touch muscle cars (or other truly old cars) for the altogether sensible reason that their techs don’t know how to work on them. They know trouble codes and computers. They do not know the fine art of gapping points, of dwell, of epoxying leaking fuel bowls. Do you? Are you confident you can learn how? If not, you’ll need to find a competent old-school mechanic and (believe me) they are not easy to find. Most people who own muscle cars know how to keep them up — and for them, it’s part of the fun. But it kills the fun of owning a muscle car if the thing won’t start, doesn’t run well, leaves you stranded — and you have no idea how to deal with it
 
adriver said:
My car(s) are daily driven and very reliable. But I built them and used Chrysler's technology. No fancy hot rodding stuff or "high performance" things to cause problems.
That being said, I think the best advice he gives to the novice is be ready to learn the "ancient technology".
I can't speak to the difficulty of finding someone to work on them. But I think it is nice to warn people.
Snip..
Many shops will not touch muscle cars (or other truly old cars) for the altogether sensible reason that their techs don’t know how to work on them. They know trouble codes and computers. They do not know the fine art of gapping points, of dwell, of epoxying leaking fuel bowls. Do you? Are you confident you can learn how? If not, you’ll need to find a competent old-school mechanic and (believe me) they are not easy to find. Most people who own muscle cars know how to keep them up — and for them, it’s part of the fun. But it kills the fun of owning a muscle car if the thing won’t start, doesn’t run well, leaves you stranded — and you have no idea how to deal with it
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I found that particular portion of the article a little bit backhanded to those of us that do know how to work on them. For the most part, the technology isn't really that ancient. They make it sound like you have a find the ancient scroll in the library to know how to do anything on an old car. Brakes are still brakes, that hasn't really changed in 40 years. Carbs are also not necessarily leaky messes that never work right. The Carter on the 318 that was in my car when I bought it was the best running carb I've ever had and took no work to keep going. You could fire it up and pull away within 30 seconds. Yes, a dilapidated one is a pain, but if you get a good one it really doesn't take anything to keep it that way if you use it regularly. A well tuned carb is just as good as any fuel injection, it's just not as adaptable to quick changing conditions. If anything it's easier to work on an old car because you can actually fix it with a tool. Sensor dies on the side of the road? Sorry buddy, better call a tow truck and pay $500 for the dealer to plug it in and tell you it's a $5 part. Old car dies? Follow the fire triangle of air, fuel, and spark and you can diagnose most problems in a few minutes. Will it be the most efficient running thing? No, getting to your destination inefficiently is better than not making it at all.
 
Hm, let's see..

Muscle car- Check
Under 25- Check
Heavy Clutch- Check
Bad Brakes- Check
Questionable Steering- Check
Carburetor and Points- Check

Yet I'm still alive and have been driving this thing around since I was 16 (21 now), although I've had it much longer.

They're different from modern cars but I think he blew things out of proportion. You can keep a muscle car in a carport and not have it rot away. I've daily driven my Dart and the biggest issue I had was the fuel economy. Its never left me stranded but I always carry a set of jumper cables and a tool box in the trunk just in case. Cops are usually more curious than anything, been followed a few times but never pulled over, and my speedometer has been broken for years.

Driving an old car is awesome though! The "cars" on the road today just aren't as interesting as the old muscle cars of the 60's and 70's. And the "muscle cars" of today are just labeled as such because they're too fat to corner like real sports cars and they share a name with a muscle car from 40+ years ago. I drive a '14 Camaro daily and am a member on Camaro5, which is the forum where most of the 5th gen (2010-2015) Camaro owners congregate, and a lot of them consider their cars to be muscle cars just because a Camaro is (was at one time, long ago!) a muscle car. Especially the SS owners. Bought not built, and most of them never turn a wrench on their cars. Now I'm just getting off topic lol

Are old cars really that bad? Driven correctly, they're not too different from a modern car aside from a few things that have been mentioned.
 
He missed one point. 60's and early 70's muscle/pony cars never go out of style. Liters? What is a liter? How about cubic inches. It's like Consumer Reports giving the Jeep Wrangler an F in the Sport utility category.
What would someone on the 88th floor of a hi rise in NYC know anything about a Jeep Wrangler?
 
BlueDream said:
I always carry a set of jumper cables and a tool box in the trunk just in case. Cops are usually more curious than anything, been followed a few times but never pulled over, and my speedometer has been broken for years.
.
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I carry a few tools also, but they are in case someone else needs help. :D
I also have cops end up looking me over and when they do I rev it up and nod like I want to race them.
Most of them just laugh and look the car up and down.

Been pulled over once since I had the Dart for doing 75 in a 45 but it was on a four lane 55mph road just before coming into town.
He wrote me a $35 ticket for "Wasting finite resources" basically using too much gas. :D

I said "whoa! hold on a minute, I paid for that gas, taxes and all so I should be able to pour it out on the ground if I want" (I was messin with him)
His answer was that if I would rather be arrested, have my car impounded, pay to get it out and pay a $300 speeding ticket with points against my license he could arrange that instead. :D
I stood there with my fingers on my chin like I was thinking about it for a couple of seconds and said "Nah, that's ok, but thank you for the offer"

We were both just joking around and he wrote the $35 ticket.
 
TrailBeast said:
I had 5 cars and trucks by the time I as was 15, but my first actual "muscle car" was a 440 Mag 1969 Roadrunner. (at 21 years old)
Bought it in 1976 for 1,200 and it was really close to perfect condition.

Out of all those cars and trucks I have driven and owned over the years I only wrecked one, and it was a friends GTO convertible that ran into an apartment complex building when the owner's girlfriend kept wanting me to hot rod it so she stuck her foot on top of my gas pedal foot and held it down.
The rear end came around and we went right across the front lawn and BAM!
We hit the corner of the building and knocked a guy right on the other side of that wall right out of his bed. :D

So your friends crazy *****, i mean girlfriend. After she did that and caused you to wreck his GTO, did you ball up your fist and donkey punch the dumb ***** in the head for that stupid move or what, or maybe your friend donkey punched her himself.
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SoulSurvivor said:
He missed one point. 60's and early 70's muscle/pony cars never go out of style. Liters? What is a liter? How about cubic inches. It's like Consumer Reports giving the Jeep Wrangler an F in the Sport utility category.
What would someone on the 88th floor of a hi rise in NYC know anything about a Jeep Wrangler?
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I'm sure he knows everything one would need to know. After all, he probably read a sales brochure for a wrangler when he was in high school, and wanted one in olive drab to, "Support the Red Army troops." The little commie bastard.
 
I actually feel like the article does something of a service by, potentially, keeping unprepared dreamers from buying a project that never actually gets completed or maybe keeps a 45 year old classic from getting wrecked in morning rush hour traffic or simply steers apartment dwellers off of buying a car they really cannot keep the way it should be. I do enjoy seeing old muscle on the road but I hate seeing it dry-rotting away on someone's un-mowed front lawn, sun-faded and covered in dead leaves.
 
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