Jason Smith
Member
What is the cheapest/easiest/smartest fix to convert my sons 5x4 small bolt pattern to something else that gives him more of a choice in wheels?
Small bolt to big bolt pattern
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Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
Like they say, You have three choices, pick any two. Easiest/cheapest, but not the best. Redrill the drums and flanges/hubs.
easiest way is to try and find adapters that bolt onto the hubs, kind of like spacers, problem is, they magnify the problem.
best way, upgrade to 73-76 Disc brakes up front and order new axles from Dr Diff for the rear.
69_340_GTS
Well-Known Member
Near impossible to do without welding, especially on the rear axles. Not enough room for five new lugs, at least if you want it to be strong/safe. Others will have differing opinions. Plus, now you have mongrel brake drums too. Better idea:
Get one of several available aftermarket disc brake kits for the front. I used the SSBC disc brake kit on the front. Used 8.75 Dr. Diff axles in rear end, with the 8.75 axle B-body SSBC disc brake kit. (You could also retain drum brakes in the rear with Dr. Diff rear drum brake kit) Certainly not the cheapest way to go, but might be easiest, IMHO.
Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
Actually, it works just fine. I have done it on my 7 1/4 rears so I can mount slicks. But like I said not the best idea.
stroked340
Well-Known Member
Do what I did put Wilwoods on the front.. hubs are drilled for small or big bolt pattern,and I have Moser axles on the back that are drilled for small or big bolt pattern also..the quality of the 2 can't be matched by ANY others out there!!!..sure theres cheaper always is,and of lesser quality!!
Jason Smith
Member
Thanks all! Will start studying the options! Smitty
Aluminum adapters are avail' at ebay, 60 USD per pair. Fits your "easiest" and "cheapest" although "smartest" is debatable. Wheel adapters got a bad reputation many years ago, mostly due to improper mounting. They cant sit crooked on top of welded on drum weights. If they mount flat against the drum and torqued correctly they should be fine. Of course you would want a large bolt pattern spare and a different/larger lug wrench fitting the 20 larger lug nuts you will also need ( adapters all have 1/2" RH studs ).
72Dart6pack
Harder Better Faster Stronger.
Doctor Diff & call it a day.
69_340_GTS
Well-Known Member
The safe, well-engineered adapters are 1" or more thick. Now you need wheels with 1" or more extra backspacing. You'll be looking at late model Mustang wheels, or front-wheel-drive wheels. Now you can't have the nice deep offset wheels that many of us like. (Unless you like the deep offset on the backside of the wheel). All a matter of opinion, but I don't like the look of Mustang/FWD wheels on our A-bodies.
Exactly!
Re-drilling the drums will just give you headaches. Rear axle flange material is lacking, it's been done of course and there are better and worse ways to accomplish the re-drilled flanges, so success depends on how you do it. But either way you're still stuck with re-drilling SBP brakes. Not so easy, relatively cheap, safety depends on execution. To me this is still a shortcut that will cause problems later.
Aftermarket kits are ok, but usually the only place to get at least some of replacement parts is from that company. Oh, and expensive to the tune of several hundred extra dollars. Most expensive way to do it hands down, usually pretty easy, safe. This gets it done right, but you pay for it in dollars.
Adaptors are probably the easiest and the cheapest way, and if you use billet adaptors that are ~1" thick (not the cast aluminum adaptors) they're plenty safe. But they will affect wheel selection, especially in the front. Even a lot of the OE mustang wheels won't have enough backspace for that in the front. Cheap and easy but it's a shortcut and it'll cause headaches with wheel selection.
Using the 73+ mopar disks in the front and aftermarket BBP axles with BBP 10x2.5" mopar drums is probably the easiest/cheapest/safest way to do it right. All factory designed parts, everything fits. Replacement parts are available at the local parts stores. Cass @DoctorDiff can walk you through everything you need, and can sell you everything you need, one stop shopping for great quality parts. The '73+ Mopar disk conversion is cheaper than the Wilwood and SSBC conversion kits, even buying everything new from Cass. And if you can find an F/J/M donor at a local yard you may be able to do it cheaper than that. Same for the rear brakes. The 10x2.5" BBP mopar brakes can be bought new from Dr. Diff, or used on Ebay, or sourced from the local yard on most rear wheel drive Mopars up to around '91. Doesn't get easier than factory parts, factory engineered and tested so about as safe as you can get, and cheaper than the aftermarket kits available. More expensive than a re-drill or adaptors, but you won't cause you more headaches later.
stroked340
Well-Known Member
Birds are out again..CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP
I actually ran the adaptors on the back of a dart sport for years. Never an issue with them coming lose, and a lot of street miles. Car went into the 12's. I actually liked how they "widened" the rear a little, took away the "backwards" 3-wheeler look, sort of. However, never ran them on the front, nor would I.
- no way am I suggesting this is the best way to get your bolt pattern widened. But, without argument, it's the cheapest and easiest for the rear.
mpaahana23
Well-Known Member
adapter from ebay
Birds are out again..CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP
Or you could spend an extra $300 or so for wilwoods, which won't actually stop you any better but will save you a couple of pounds so you can run .01 seconds faster on the quarter mile. You'll be stuck buying all your parts from Wilwood forever though, paying through the nose all the way.
Or you could use the 73+ disks from Cass and use that $300 to buy BBP axles and be almost done with the whole car.
stroked340
Well-Known Member
Couple of pounds??...more like 35 pounds..as far as price "you get what you pay for"..quality cost money always has always will..
roccodart440
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Easiest and cheapest way. Adapters. Nothing wrong with them either so long as they are quality. The last pair I bought to put corvette wheels on my Volvo 240 were billet aluminum and hubcentric to the wheel and to the car itself.
After having done this to quite a few Abodies, quite a few different ways. You get what you pay for and you form some opinions. Here are mine.
That being said here is how I choose to do it now, and the logic behind this....
Rear: you need axles to change the bolt pattern. So I buy axles from strange. now you'll need new brakes. I run Wilwood rear discs. The factory crap will work if you like it and can get it cheap.
Front: You need a 73 and newer front disc setup and you'll need to ream your spindle or get one with the larger ball joint. You can use the factory crap, if you can get it cheap and like it OR just get willwood front discs and be done with it.
I don't like having to try and pretty up all the factory stuff and source new parts as needed and pay what these stock parts go for etc. Send me a kit in the mail and I'm done by noon and the car looks perfect and performs like a new car.
After having done this to quite a few Abodies, quite a few different ways. You get what you pay for and you form some opinions. Here are mine.
That being said here is how I choose to do it now, and the logic behind this....
Rear: you need axles to change the bolt pattern. So I buy axles from strange. now you'll need new brakes. I run Wilwood rear discs. The factory crap will work if you like it and can get it cheap.
Front: You need a 73 and newer front disc setup and you'll need to ream your spindle or get one with the larger ball joint. You can use the factory crap, if you can get it cheap and like it OR just get willwood front discs and be done with it.
I don't like having to try and pretty up all the factory stuff and source new parts as needed and pay what these stock parts go for etc. Send me a kit in the mail and I'm done by noon and the car looks perfect and performs like a new car.
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Who cares? 35 lbs on a street car is nothing. I've got more than 35 lbs of crap in the trunk of my car right now between the spare tire, jack, and assorted tools. The OP is talking about his sons car and he's on a budget, otherwise he wouldn't ask the cheapest way to do the swap. Doesn't sound like a drag racer after the last couple of hundredths, not all of us have piles of money to throw down the track.
There are plenty of benefits to running the later 73+ stock parts, especially on a street car. Parts can be found at the local Napa or whatever. Aftermarket parts are great and all for saving a few pounds, but on something that's not being raced competitively they just create more headaches. Like the safety wired bolts, aluminum hubs, all the parts coming from Wilwood, etc. Stupid easy and durable has it's place, even if it means being 35 lbs heavier. You won't notice the difference going down the road unless you're on a stopwatch.
This bit doesn't make any sense. If you have 73+ disk set up you don't need to ream anything, you'd actually need a tapered adaptor to keep the small ball joint UCA's (67-72) if you don't want to swap them out. Only way you'd need to ream the spindle is if you wanted to run large ball joint UCA's (73-76) with a small ball joint spindle. But if you're swapping on '73+ disks you don't have a small ball joint spindle, and since the car is a 5x4" stock pattern it doesn't have large ball joint UCA's.
And again, you can get a factory kit from Dr. Diff and have it show up with everything you need right in the box, including the tapered adaptors if you need them. Works great, and you're still using factory parts that are easy to find if you need a quick replacement. And I'd take the customer service from Dr. Diff over the customer service at Wilwood any day. The factory 73+ disks were good enough to be used on cars all the way up until 1989, they're plenty capable for most street cars.
Just depends on what you're after. If you're trying to shave a few pounds, you have to spend a few hundred bucks more. If you'd rather have easy to find, dead solid reliable parts and don't care that there's lighter aftermarket parts out there the stock stuff makes a lot more sense. I've run the stock stuff, I've run the later mopar 11.75" rotors with the stock calipers (for 60k miles on my challenger), and I run 13" rotors with cobra style calipers from Dr. Diff. The stock stuff is just fine for a lot of applications.
72Dart6pack
Harder Better Faster Stronger.
Everything Doctor Diff. Front and Rear. Cass is awesome. You can go cheap if you like? What's your life worth to save a few dollars or your family?
roccodart440
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stroked340
Well-Known Member
CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP......
Like running a stock oil pickup and drive on a sub 12 second car? Or complaining about reaming valve guides on cylinder heads purchased bare? That kind of cheap?
Or maybe you can just figure out that not everyone is running a drag only car that they can afford to scatter an engine on every few seasons so maybe a few hundred extra bucks for weight savings they don't need could be significant?
stroked340
Well-Known Member
stroked340
Well-Known Member
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