Comp cam lifter problems.......what lifters?

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There is crap in them. Lifters are simple pimple: there is a piston+pushrod seat, a little check ball/spring in a retainer and a larger spring at base. If you pop the little cage off the bottom of the plunger, youll see the tiny spring and the ball bearing. If you have a soft lifter sitting in oil and your pumping it with a pushrod, I guarantee you have some crap in the ball seat (or ball is not even seating due to tiny spring in retainer) as the tolerances of the pistons are pretty tight.
1959-buick-hydraulic-valve-lifter-parts.jpg
 
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yellow rose , it a stock chrysler electronic , yes its a old school mallory coil . until he goes efi on it .
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furrystump said:
It’s of no help to you, but I will never use another hyd cam. Solids are not anywhere near as maintence intensive as people think.
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'Back in the day', these hydraulic lifter problems didn't exist. We started seeing issues about 10 years ago. Looks like it has really spread to many/all makes. Just cheap (probably Chinese) manufacturing. The last Crane cam we put in had 1 of them go away at about 1k miles, and another stating to weaken. Crane replaced them, no questions asked... which probably says they see this all the time.
 
pishta said:
There is crap in them. Lifters are simple pimple: there is a piston+pushrod seat, a little check ball/spring in a retainer and a larger spring at base. If you pop the little cage off the bottom of the plunger, youll see the tiny spring and the ball bearing. If you have a soft lifter sitting in oil and your pumping it with a pushrod, I guarantee you have some crap in the ball seat (or ball is not even seating due to tiny spring in retainer) as the tolerances of the pistons are pretty tight.
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Or the part tolerances are crap, or the materials in things like the spring are crap. I suspect the overseas manufacturers don't have the science and don't care about it as long as they can keep shipping them.
Same thing happens on non-OEM replacement strut tops; the rubber is very often the wrong hardness and so the tops move all over the place, plus the rubber quality is crap and won't last like OEM.
 
nm9stheham said:
..., plus the rubber quality is crap and won't last like OEM.
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Yeah, like the motor mounts from India that are made of some sort of compressed cow ****. You stick a screwdriver into them and rubber chips off in chunks
 
Does your oil filter have an anti-drainback valve? We used to see this 'noisy lifter on start up' complaint at the Ford store I worked at in the 90's... a Motorcraft filter usually solved the problem.

The only time I ever had noisy lifters is when I insisted on using adjustable lifters on the '57 olds I drove in high school...1965. My boss told me not to use them but I knew better...at 16.

Not...
 
I recently did a 340 build with a full Comp Cam roller setup including hydraulic roller lifters. I am very disapointed to say the least. The lifters bleed off very quickly causing bad clatter on start up hot or cold. After doing a little research I dont believe there is a hyd lifter made that has not had issues. I will replace my bad lifters with solid rollers.
Good luck
 
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512Stroker said:
I recently did a 340 build with a full Comp Cam roller setup including hydraulic roller lifters. I am very disapointed to say the least. The lifters bleed off very quickly causing bad clatter on start up hot or cold. After doing a little research I dont believe there is a hyd lifter made that has not had issues. I will replace my bad lifters with solid rollers.
Good luck
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Don't feel bad. I just installed a engine that IMM Engines built for me and have a bad lifter or lifters. I emailed Brian and he said "Usually over-revving or overstressing the lifter will do this also to a completely normal lifter so hard to tell."

The engine has around 40 miles on it and I can tell you I have not over revved the engine because the fuel sync has not been set and the proper tune has not been applied. Also I'm not one of those guys that just revs a engine at high RPMs while in park or neutral.

It's not a exhaust leak since sometimes it will not tap at all. Also upon start up the lifters will clatter until the oil pressure gets going. The paper work for the engine just states "OEM lifters"

So can solid rollers be used with a hydraulic roller cam since I have adjustable roller rockers?




 
I am fine with solids. The problem I see is that there are just not many grinds available at all in solid that have low duration and moderately high lift; which is the combination I prefer for what I do with engines. So I tend up back at hydraulics over and over, just to get what I want out of a catalog.

Someone mentioned that Crower uses Morel's; I might have to look into that. I wonder if a specialty mfr like Rhodes would make good standard hydraulics for a price; it would be worth some $$ to be able to get a reliably good set somewhere.

Or go to custom grind solids. That might be better.
 
nm9stheham said:
I am fine with solids. The problem I see is that there are just not many grinds available at all in solid that have low duration and moderately high lift; which is the combination I prefer for what I do with engines. So I tend up back at hydraulics over and over, just to get what I want out of a catalog.

Someone mentioned that Crower uses Morel's; I might have to look into that. I wonder if a specialty mfr like Rhodes would make good standard hydraulics for a price; it would be worth some $$ to be able to get a reliably good set somewhere.

Or go to custom grind solids. That might be better.
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Custom grinds are the only way to go unless you have absolutely no budget (like me... but I try not to scrimp on important stuff)...

I would love to run a solid rolller in my new dirt car project but I would have to buy new pushrods, lifters, springs...just not in the budget. My custom Jones cam will be $243.00... I'm resurfacing 15 used lifter at $6.00 each and bought one new one for $8.99. Crower and Howard's custom grinds are a little cheaper. Make sure you get a quality core... should not be a problem with any of the aforementioned outfits.
 
I've wondered if the lifter problem has anything to do with low zinc in modern oils. The lifter problems uniquely coincide with the time period zinc began being removed. Just spitballin.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I've wondered if the lifter problem has anything to do with low zinc in modern oils. The lifter problems uniquely coincide with the time period zinc began being removed. Just spitballin.
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Your dead on. Upon further inspection I found the cam damaged as well . The lobe was worn considerably. I unfortunately am not always up on things like the low zinc so it bit me in the ***.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I've wondered if the lifter problem has anything to do with low zinc in modern oils. The lifter problems uniquely coincide with the time period zinc began being removed. Just spitballin.
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I ran my Comp hydraulic rollers in Valvoline VR-1 oil that is ZDDP enriched and they still falled.
 
19blockhead72 said:
Your dead on. Upon further inspection I found the cam damaged as well . The lobe was worn considerably. I unfortunately am not always up on things like the low zinc so it bit me in the ***.
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I was thinking about it because zinc is or was added for scuffing or sliding action, such as rocker arms against valve tips or valves and guides and it suddenly hit me that the lifter plunger and body is the same fit. Maybe there's something to it. Maybe not.
 
I just bought ONE Comp flat tappet solid... no sense going overboard!

I have found springs without enough height or stock pushrods that are too long after having the heads and blocked decked have caused a lot of cam/lifter failures.

50 years ago we just didn't have this kind of info available... we'd build our own stuff after having the machine work done and never think about checking pushrod length.
 
512Stroker said:
I ran my Comp hydraulic rollers in Valvoline VR-1 oil that is ZDDP enriched and they still falled.
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I think a lot of Comp's problem is, they make so m any types of lifters, people often use them in incorrect applications. Not saying you did.......just that IMO they make too dang many types.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I think a lot of Comp's problem is, they make so m any types of lifters, people often use them in incorrect applications. Not saying you did.......just that IMO they make too dang many types.
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These are Comp 8920 hyd rollers,340 retrofit application, 320 pounds spring pressure, all Comp roller top end, 400+HP street. Lifters all bleed off to quickly, you saw the thread. And yes I agree Comp makes too many different lifters.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I was thinking about it because zinc is or was added for scuffing or sliding action, such as rocker arms against valve tips or valves and guides and it suddenly hit me that the lifter plunger and body is the same fit. Maybe there's something to it. Maybe not.
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Interesting observation. On first blush, I am thinking not since they fail without or without ZDDP. I first ran into this over 10 year bakc with Mitsubishi replacement 'adjusters' (small lifter-like cylinders that insert into the ends of their rockers) , and then once again with a 4.7L Dakota engine. It seems to be a general loss of 'the tricks of the trade' by whoever is making them now.
 
Krooser said:
Custom grinds are the only way to go unless you have absolutely no budget (like me... but I try not to scrimp on important stuff)...

I would love to run a solid rolller in my new dirt car project but I would have to buy new pushrods, lifters, springs...just not in the budget. My custom Jones cam will be $243.00... I'm resurfacing 15 used lifter at $6.00 each and bought one new one for $8.99. Crower and Howard's custom grinds are a little cheaper. Make sure you get a quality core... should not be a problem with any of the aforementioned outfits.
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That's pretty interesting.... I am not afraid to use reground /6 lifters in a stock setup but I never thought of reground used ones in a moderate performance V8. I might need to start saving the old hydraulics. Where are you getting them reground?

I see you are going for a circle track engine, and a solid that will work for that (new or reground) ought to be easy to find. But when I look for a solid with under 275 advertised duration and over .460 lift or so, it just does not seem to be listed anywhere.
 
nm9stheham said:
That's pretty interesting.... I am not afraid to use reground /6 lifters in a stock setup but I never thought of reground used ones in a moderate performance V8. I might need to start saving the old hydraulics. Where are you getting them reground?

I see you are going for a circle track engine, and a solid that will work for that (new or reground) ought to be easy to find. But when I look for a solid with under 275 advertised duration and over .460 lift or so, it just does not seem to be listed anywhere.
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Several places still do it...I'll send mine to Mizpah Precision I guess.

Just got a Comp replacement for the one lifter I was missing. Same seat height but has the hole for pushrods oiling...no big deal.

Do any of the shops here do lifter refacing? - Speed Talk
 
nm mopar?
comp
MM 6580 .525 261 235 153

Engle
KV-1 .582" .546" .364" 269° 239° 155°

ultradyne 50 200
NF70 266 239 158 0.3576 0.105 0.097 0.090 0.083 0.536 0.572 0.607
Bullit 200
FC262/315 262 220 133 .3150 .020 CRA
FC266/315 266 224 137 .3150 .020 CRA
FC261/333 261 232 147 .3330 .008 CRA
FC265/342 265 232 145 .3420 .012 CRS
FC260/356 260 232 150 .3560 .011 CTA
FC260/360 260 234 152 .3600 .012 CRA
FC265/333 265 236 150 .3330 .008 CRA
FC265/346 265 236 150 .3460 .011 CRA
FC265/355 265 236 150 .3550 .011 CRA

Howard
FM2323615A 260 232 152 0.362 0.018 YES .5423 .5495 .5784 .5965 .6146 .6218 .6326

FM2343640A 262 234 153 0.364 0.018 YES .5460 .5533 .5824 .6006 .6188 .6261 .6370

FM2363690A 264 236 155 0.369 0.018 YES .5535 .5609 .5904 .6089 .6273 .6347 .6458
 
I've recently had quite a few issues with hydraulic lifters to the point I am going to stop using them at all. Last year I rebuilt a stock 350 for my Pop's 64 Rambler and installed a Sealed power replacement cam and lifters. Numerous lifters would bleed down after just a 45 minutes to an 1hr of setting and clatter for 1-2 minutes and it only has 100 lbs spring pressure on the seat and 250 open. I buddy of mine gave me several sets of Sealed power lifters and I went through them mixing and matching internals with bodies that gave me the closest piston to body clearance and finally got a set that works decent. Took 4 sets of lifters to make 1 good set
 
fishy68 said:
it only has 100 lbs spring pressure on the seat and 250 open. I buddy of mine gave me several sets of Sealed power lifters and I went through them mixing and matching internals with bodies that gave me the closest piston to body clearance and finally got a set that works decent. Took 4 sets of lifters to make 1 good set
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Wow, that's bad. I feel lucky to have 1 bad and 1 marginal one out the 16 Cranes. So you think the internal piston-to-body clearance is the biggest issue?
 
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