1973 318 - daily driver for years - now won’t start

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alfredo

alfredo

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1973 Dodge Dart Swinger
318 / auto
183,000mi
edelbrock 1406 + intake + head rebuild ~20k ago

This car is my daily driver for a couple years now. Very reliable. Starts first try and chokes fine. Recently parked at a restaurant for dinner, are and when I came back out to leave - the engine just turned over and over with no sign of starting. Not even a putter. I killed the battery, got a jump and ended up killing the starter trying to get it running.

Fast forward to now and I’ve replaced the following, in order, 1-by-1:
  1. Starter
  2. Battery
  3. Spark plugs
  4. Wires
  5. Ballast Resistor
  6. Ignition coil
  7. Ignition module
  8. Reluctor
  9. Distributor Pickup Coil
  10. Wires
  11. Fuel filter
Starter fluid, gas in bowls and still nothing but the motor turning over and over. The thing that’s boggling my mind is I see spark on the number one cylinder when I test the spark. But Nothing Fires. Not even the slightest stumble.

I’ve bought an ignition lock cylinder because I see that’s the only thing I haven’t swapped and saw some saying it might be a culprit. Honestly, I’ve got no clue what to do if that doesn’t work.

Any ideas?
 
Just throwing out some thoughts on this weird one. If you are getting spark but no fire, then that could be the firing order is out of wack. Also I know on early cars 64-66, if you are not in park all the way it wont start. Try putting in neutral and see if it does anything. Could be the neutral safety switch too ( if your came equipped). I also see you did not change the distributor, may be worth a try. Did you set the reflector gap to .08?. Also are the valves moving by chance? with 183,000 could be a timing chain too, assuming it was not changed.
 
Instead of just guessing and keep throwing money at it by replacing stuff, I think you should do some testing instead.

If there's fuel entering the engine and spark at the plugs, it could be the spark is too weak or timing is way off.
- How much voltage is at the coil with the ignition ON?
- How much voltage is at the coil with the ignition at the CRANK-position (2-person job)?
- You can temporarily bypass the coil with a wire from battery-POS to Coil-POS terminal. This way the coil gets full battery power and should throw a stronger spark.

- Verify that TDC on the crank still matches with the ignition distributor that the cylinder. 1 (or 6) is (close to) being fired. (If it's really off, the timing chain could have jumped a tooth or more / worn timing chain-set).
- To test for wear, put a socket and wrench on the crank-bolt and rotate it alternating left and right and try to feel if there is a lot of slack.
- - You can also remove the distributor cap and watch the rotor for movement when you rotate the crank left&right. If there's much delay in rotor-movement there's will be a lot of slack in the timing chain.
Severe timing chain-slack or a jumped chain, will also have the engine valve-actions retarded a lot.
 
I agree with ^^^^. Check for spark first if your getting spark check for fuel in the chambers if that checks out it has to be a timing problem either timing chain skipped or broke it the distributor is loose and turned. If no spark at all I'd start with a multi meter and check coil its possible you blew a fuseable link in the wiring and not getting power to the coil. If you are check and see what the voltage is at the plug wire.
 
Times 2 ,on timing chain ...
Use a timing light ,crank it over ..Roughly ,16 -18 degrees, per tooth jump.
 
i originally thought jumping timing chains was a joke until it happened to me. I parked my '69 Dodge truck (318), went to leave later and she would crank but not start...every once in a while a small puff would come up through the carb and realized it was no joke . Got it towed home(by a damned Chevy of all things) and found broken tips of the gear teeth and slipped time.
 
OL DODGE said:
i originally thought jumping timing chains was a joke until it happened to me. I parked my '69 Dodge truck (318), went to leave later and she would crank but not start...every once in a while a small puff would come up through the carb and realized it was no joke . Got it towed home(by a damned Chevy of all things) and found broken tips of the gear teeth and slipped time.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not timing chains usually jump when the engine is shut off.
I don't think I have ever seen one jump while running.
 
TrailBeast said:
Believe it or not timing chains usually jump when the engine is shut off.
I don't think I have ever seen one jump while running.
Click to expand...
Imo I think they jump during shutdown. Then pistons and crank stop receiving power and start to decline quickly and cam is still turning the two are connected via the timing chain inertia takes over and bam.
 
I had a similar issue driving home from a local show. running great all day & then by the time I got home it would not idle.

It would not restart either.

So I checked the timing chain for slop & it was pretty bad.

I took it apart & found the original nylon gear timing gear (35K) miles or so, some of the teeth showed more wear than others.

I installed a new chain & it fired right up & idled.

timing chain.JPG
 
alfredo said:
I’ve bought an ignition lock cylinder because I see that’s the only thing I haven’t swapped and saw some saying it might be a culprit. Honestly, I’ve got no clue what to do if that doesn’t work.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...

I've just got to ask, "are you serious?"
 
The only time I ever lost a factory timing chain like the gear going bad, was this one time in a 69 ford with a 302. We exited the 99 near Earlimart to get gas, pulled in and parked... damn thing would not fire back up. I started in with the diagnostic with about no tools ... after finding no spark... I pulled the cap, my friend cranked it and the rotor never moved.... we ended up paying 100.00 bucks to an old mechanic at a hole in the wall shop about 2 blocks away to fix it. Turned out my friend had a timing set in the trunk, something he knew needed changed believe it or not...anyhow we pushed it over and it took him about 2 hrs.. and we were back on the road.
 
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TrailBeast said:
Believe it or not timing chains usually jump when the engine is shut off.
I don't think I have ever seen one jump while running.
Click to expand...

My dad had one jump while driving down the road 360 with 84,000 just all of the sudden lost power, but made it home into the garage, would not re-start.
 
Try this for the hell of it. Grab the key and turn it to the start position and HOLD it there and see if it will try to start. If it starts it will of course grind on the flex plate but a second or two won't hurt it.
 
toolmanmike said:
Timing chain.
Click to expand...


...........and why actual troubleshooting is SO MUCH more important (and cheaper) than throwing parts at it.

1....You check (ed?) if there is spark and fuel
2....You did a compression/ leak down check?
3....AND THEN CHECK THE IGNITION TIMING before you turn a wrench on the points/ reluctor/ distributor "anything." That right there will show you if the timing chain jumped.

"Other simple stuff". Pull cap, watch rotor. Wrench engine back and forth, "feeling for slack in timing chain, watching rotor. Determine what these points are, and then look at the timing marks and see how far it moves "with the slack." "A few degrees." More than 5? getting pretty loose!!!!!
 
Agree! Back when I was 16 my 69 Road Runner just quit. I was setting in a parking lot talking to some friends. Spark and fuel. No more diagnosis. I got another 383 and swapped it out. I bet it was just a timing chain. Yep. Diagnose the problem instead of just throwing parts at it. I know better now.
 
The timing can jump when the chain slaps. During engine breaking or at shut down, the slack whips back, and there it sits. Actually happens often on motorcycles with auto tensioners. Under high rpm engine braking, the slack can whip back so hard it shears teeth off the tensioners ratchet mechanism.
 
alfredo said:
1973 Dodge Dart Swinger
318 / auto
183,000mi
edelbrock 1406 + intake + head rebuild ~20k ago

This car is my daily driver for a couple years now. Very reliable. Starts first try and chokes fine. Recently parked at a restaurant for dinner, are and when I came back out to leave - the engine just turned over and over with no sign of starting. Not even a putter. I killed the battery, got a jump and ended up killing the starter trying to get it running.

Fast forward to now and I’ve replaced the following, in order, 1-by-1:
  1. Starter
  2. Battery
  3. Spark plugs
  4. Wires
  5. Ballast Resistor
  6. Ignition coil
  7. Ignition module
  8. Reluctor
  9. Distributor Pickup Coil
  10. Wires
  11. Fuel filter
Starter fluid, gas in bowls and still nothing but the motor turning over and over. The thing that’s boggling my mind is I see spark on the number one cylinder when I test the spark. But Nothing Fires. Not even the slightest stumble.

I’ve bought an ignition lock cylinder because I see that’s the only thing I haven’t swapped and saw some saying it might be a culprit. Honestly, I’ve got no clue what to do if that doesn’t work.Any ideas?
Click to expand...

The rotor has to turn, and be at the right place at the right time, and the reluctor gap has to be at least close, namely zero to about .020, with the spec being .008 ; and the ECU (module) has to be grounded back to the battery; and like RRR was alluding to, the connections at the ballast resistor have to be clean and tight.
Spark at the #1 plug, indicates everything seems to be working; but it does tell you if when it is sparking, that it is the time it is supposed to be sparking. What I mean is you could take all 7 other wires out of the cap, and still see the spark at the number one plug. Or you could put the other end of that wire in any tower, and still get the spark at the plug end.
However, the fact that you do have spark there, kindof means everything inside the cap and upstream of it is working.
So then the next order of business is to verify TDC #1 compression and to make sure the rotor is pointing to the tower that is wired to #1 cylinder (drivers front),that the cap is properly installed, and that the rest of the wires are following in the correct order .
If it is not ,and you haven't screwed up with all the things you have so far done, then this points straight to the timing chain.
But to continue, with the chain not jumped;
Once the rotor is verified to be phased correctly,then that is done. Now, save your battery and starter by pulling the center wire out of the cap and near-grounding it. Then crank it and watch for a stream of sparks/ don't burn your car down.
And once all that is done, we can move on to the gas,the fuel supply system, and the carburetion....................................................................................... assuming you have compression. You may have to oil up the cylinders by now, cuz I have a feeling she has swallowed a lotta starter fluid, and that stuff will dry up your cylinders pretty bad.
I would squirt a shot in each hole anyway, and afterwards crank it a bit with the plugs out, to distribute it, then do a compression test,since the plugs are out anyway.
Of course a jumped chain will show up here too, posting really low numbers or zeros,lol. Numbers around 120 would be normal for a stock 73 teener.
 
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I would say the chain jumped or just sheared. I had it happen at the gas pump. Pulled in for fuel and car would not start.

Reset #1 and re time. Then respond.

If you got spark and fuel, the only reason for no fire is timing.
 
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