Real world Hughes Steamroller experience?

AJ/FormS said:

Yeah this is what I based my opinion on.
If you add ~46/47 degrees to get an approximation of the advertised to maybe .006tappet lift, so you can maybe compare it to a Comp cam, then I get;
260intake/272exhaust/125 compression/111power/48 overlap; in at their recommended 105-ICA.
Firstly the 260 tells you it's a small cam suitable for a low-C 318. The ICA of 55* keeps the cylinder pressure up so she doesn't go too soft at factory stall. What they did was steal extraction degrees, by making the exhaust overly long, to get the 48* overlap, which makes the idle-lope everybody seems to crave. That leaves just 111* for extraction, which makes for reasonable fuel-economy. The left over 272 exhaust duration looks like a lot, and it is way more than the 260intake needs... but it would allow log-manifolds and not lose much power. So that is how it works from idle to off-idle to almost stall-speed.

But as soon as you wind it up to stall speed,everything settles down,because there is no longer enough time to support the lope which is actually just reversion and intake dilution and poor combustion; and so the .050s become more important. Now the 213/226 tells the story. This is a generous size for a 318, and will make peak power around 4800rpm, about 400 higher than the stocker. The extra rpm makes the power, perhaps 20 or more.

But here's the deal, taking that 260 intake degrees as gospel, and building a fast-rate cam with it, suitable for to use a 904, a guy might choose ; 260/268/112 with .050s of 220/228, and make another 20 hp with a powerband suitable for the auto. The events now are;
260intake/268exhaust/121 compression/111extraction/40overlap; in at 103 now.
So we lost 4* of compression, and the cylinder pressure dropped a similar amount, so we kindof need to increase the Scr to get back the pressure at low-rpm ..... unless you increase the stall. Extraction is the same 111* and the exhaust has been reduced to a more sane level for the 260 intake. So the bottom line here is more peak power with the same intake degrees, but needs a boost in Scr to maintain the bottom end, and midrange; with a slight loss of idle-lope(8*). This would be more suitable for a street/strip car.

But if you are gonna increase the Scr with pistons..... then you might as well aim high, the cost is the same. And then you might choose an even bigger cam, without loss of low-rpm torque. The increased cylinder pressure will really pump up the midrange, and perhaps another 20 at peak. Of course that means a higher operating range, and a new set of gears to trap at the higher MPH.

If you continue this way, you will hit the dreaded detonation wall, or end up with a 4200TC,....... and a trailer,lol.

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j par said:

If you sent your old Hughes cam to a regrinder and had them grind it to the new specs you're looking for you can still say you have a Hughes cam..

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1994redram said:

I used a Hughes "steamroller" hydraulic roller in my last magnum build. I still have the cam on a shelf at home. It was a 10.5:1 360 with Hughes 2.02/1.60 EQ heads. The cam was a 218/222@.050 .539/.549 lift with the factory magnum 1.6 rockers. Car weighs 3304 without me, 727, 3.55 gears, pump gas, etc. Carburetor was untuned straight out of the box and using a stock electronic distributor. Went 12.88 @104. That was my 3rd, final, and fastest pass.
That basic combo was pretty fun on the street and in hindsight I should have left it alone.
I will be using a bigger Hughes cam with my edelbrock heads and 408. It's a 234/238 @.050 .571/.576 hydraulic roller.

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1994redram said:

My dad was going to use that smaller cam in his truck, but plans changed and he decided to do something else. So now I'm kind of stuck with it. A regrind was what I planned since I needed new hardened pushrods for the edelbrock heads anyways.

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AJ/FormS said:

Yeah this is what I based my opinion on.
If you add ~46/47 degrees to get an approximation of the advertised to maybe .006tappet lift, so you can maybe compare it to a Comp cam, then I get;
260intake/272exhaust/125 compression/111power/48 overlap; in at their recommended 105-ICA.
Firstly the 260 tells you it's a small cam suitable for a low-C 318. The ICA of 55* keeps the cylinder pressure up so she doesn't go too soft at factory stall. What they did was steal extraction degrees, by making the exhaust overly long, to get the 48* overlap, which makes the idle-lope everybody seems to crave. That leaves just 111* for extraction, which makes for reasonable fuel-economy. The left over 272 exhaust duration looks like a lot, and it is way more than the 260intake needs... but it would allow log-manifolds and not lose much power. So that is how it works from idle to off-idle to almost stall-speed.

But as soon as you wind it up to stall speed,everything settles down,because there is no longer enough time to support the lope which is actually just reversion and intake dilution and poor combustion; and so the .050s become more important. Now the 213/226 tells the story. This is a generous size for a 318, and will make peak power around 4800rpm, about 400 higher than the stocker. The extra rpm makes the power, perhaps 20 or more.

But here's the deal, taking that 260 intake degrees as gospel, and building a fast-rate cam with it, suitable for to use a 904, a guy might choose ; 260/268/112 with .050s of 220/228, and make another 20 hp with a powerband suitable for the auto. The events now are;
260intake/268exhaust/121 compression/111extraction/40overlap; in at 103 now.
So we lost 4* of compression, and the cylinder pressure dropped a similar amount, so we kindof need to increase the Scr to get back the pressure at low-rpm ..... unless you increase the stall. Extraction is the same 111* and the exhaust has been reduced to a more sane level for the 260 intake. So the bottom line here is more peak power with the same intake degrees, but needs a boost in Scr to maintain the bottom end, and midrange; with a slight loss of idle-lope(8*). This would be more suitable for a street/strip car.

But if you are gonna increase the Scr with pistons..... then you might as well aim high, the cost is the same. And then you might choose an even bigger cam, without loss of low-rpm torque. The increased cylinder pressure will really pump up the midrange, and perhaps another 20 at peak. Of course that means a higher operating range, and a new set of gears to trap at the higher MPH.

If you continue this way, you will hit the dreaded detonation wall, or end up with a 4200TC,....... and a trailer,lol.

Click to expand...

j par said:

I always recommend a chat with Ken at Oregon cam grinding. It's free, he grinds the cams right there in the shop he's standing in, and personally drag races the profiles he grinds, (likely he has workers do that, the two or three that he has) likely you won't get somebody who just answers phones, and it's FREE! To ask questions...

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1994redram said:

I called him about maybe regrinding that smaller 218/222@.050 cam to something that suits my 408 better. I told him I had a basically new 234/238°@.050 Hughes that I intended on running in my 360. He said that 234/238 was a bit big for the 360 but said it would be great in my 408 for a street/strip.

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j par said:

If you sent your old Hughes cam to a regrinder and had them grind it to the new specs you're looking for you can still say you have a Hughes cam..

Click to expand...

motorpirate said:

Damn phone!!!
He reported 16 in of vacuum at idle telling me it is pretty mild.
Going in a 5.9 in a 66 cuda.
3300 lbs with her in it and the jack/ spare.
904/ 3.55 SG etc.
I told her she spent last season convincing everyone at 2 local tracks it was a high 16s car with the 273 2bbl at best so it would be a better suprise if it didn't sound any different..

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Go Mango said:

Personally, I couldn't give 2 ***** about telling people I have Hughes parts. If they are dependable, quality parts they can come from Harbor Freight for all I care.

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• Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 264/270
• Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 213/219
• Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .485/.485
• LSA/ICL: 112/106
• Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
• RPM Range: 1200-5500
• Includes: Cam Only

70aarcuda said:

Hughes cams are ground by Howards....
I got 3 engines with Hughes flat tappet cams in use plus 1 more complete engine that just came out of a car that has a hughes cam....1 brand new hughes 6064 in the box...plus two previously used hughes cams in boxes....
And for 165 dollars I will order more...

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70aarcuda said:

Howards does not carry all the different grinds in stock...only a few.

Howard carries alot more of the big block grinds then the small block...

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AJ/FormS said:

Hydraulic Roller Cam. Great performance cam in 340+ c.i. applications. Works well with computer modifications or increased induction systems. Likes headers and 3.42+ gearing.
Part Number: 20200715

• Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 264/270
• Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 213/219
• Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .485/.485
• LSA/ICL: 112/106
• Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
• RPM Range: 1200-5500
• Includes: Cam Only

Badaboom you got it!
the events are
264intake/270exhaust/122 compression/107 extraction/43overlap, in at 106. and 58* ICA , and the 112 LSa is more suitable to the 904s ratio splits when using smaller stalls. But the 51 degree ramps from advertised to .050, are more suited to a hot streeter. Quiet and long-lasting, but sacrificing overlap and extraction, the latter which is not a big deal in a racecar. And for you, the 43* of overlap seems more in line with your mild idle requirement, altho the 340 Mopar cam had 44* and you could always hear a 340 on the parking lot, back in the day.
So, all-in-all a pretty good choice......... IMO .
But since you asked about the steamroller, lets compare them side by side
260/272/125/111/48 overlap; in at 105-ICA, steamroller.
264/270/122/107/43 overlap, in at 106.Lunati 715
So;4 more intake degrees is about a half a cam size, or 10 hp, maybe 12
The exhaust is a wash, both adequate.
The Lunati at compression of 122vs 125,loses some cylinder pressure, perhaps 4 psi
The Lunati with 5* less overlap you would think will idle with a lil less lope, but in fact with a lot less. This because the exhaust actually closes 6* sooner, because the Installed center Angle of the Lunati is speced to be 106* as a way of maintaining the cylinder pressure. If you actually installed it where it maybe should be at 110, the numbers would be;
264/270/118/111/43 overlap; in at 110 Ica; Lunati 715
260/272/125/111/48 overlap; in at 105-ICA, steamroller.
As you can see compression is down to 118*, 7* less than the steamroller,so for a streeter this will not work at 8/1; no how, nor with the factory stall TC. But the exhaust now closes where it should and the overlap period is optimized, and with a closing point now within 2* of the steamroller, it's gonna idle sorta like the steamroller.
The penalty is, that the engine will require an SCR boost to recapture the cylinder pressure to maintain lower rpm driveability and midrange power. The more effective overlap might be good for a few more ponies as well,with headers.
So in a race car with a hi-stall, it WILL work, sacrificing only a lil midrange power, but the upside is more operating rpm and more effective overlap, so more absolute power at the top. But then, with a hi-stall...... you wouldn't need the 114LSA anymore lol.
And, of course, if you brought the Scr back up, you could pump up the midrange power a fair bit, and so reduce your stall some, if you wanted to drive it on the street.

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1994redram said:

Stock magnum heads? My dad has a new. 512 lift comp cam that wouldn't work in his stock 5.9 rebuild with stock heads.

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1994redram said:

So, I went to the strip and made 3 passes before getting run off for no helmet. I got hooked but that was the last race before the tracks shut down for winter. I should have left it alone and tuned/perfected that setup this coming season. However I had the edelbrocks sitting and got bored, so I pulled the engine and put the edelbrocks on and the bigger cam.

Then it all went downhill! You can look up my other thread where I posted pics. I didn't pay attention while installing the cam and I put the timing set on incorrectly and DESTROYED that engine about a month ago. So now I'm building a magnum based 408 with the edelbrock that are getting repaired. And I'll use the Hughes 234/238°@.050 previously mentioned. That cam is probably a bit small for the 408, but it's getting used.

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motorpirate said:

Tried using the search function to find your thread...struck out!!

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1994redram said:

Gotta build ANOTHER engine.

That's the one. I still can't believe I timed it wrong. I got it right on the first combo with EQ heads. But swapped on the edelbrocks and bigger cam and even reused that timing set. But didn't pay attention and I'm paying for it now.

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