Volt /Ammeter at odds ??

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44070dart

How the hell did I get this old..
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My volt meter and ammeter disagree. My volt meter reads about 14 V with a little accelerator. My ammeter reads slight discharge always a little more with lights or any electrical device on. Whats up, and please dumb it down. I know the difference between amps and volts, just don't understand why they read opposites.
 
Your alternator might not have enough capacity (amps) at lower rpms. Does it charge when you are going down the road at 2-3 thousand rpms? Your battery can maintain 14 volts even at a slight discharge for a while. Eventually, it will discharge enough to start registering lower than 14 volts.
 
ammeter never goes to charge side .. at the bulkhead the fuseable link wire from the starter relay looks pretty shabby and slightly melted at the bulkhead. Is that the one that eventually leads to the meter.
 
ammeter never goes to charge side .. at the bulkhead the fuseable link wire from the starter relay looks pretty shabby and slightly melted at the bulkhead. Is that the one that eventually leads to the meter.

Get a factory service manual and trace the wire coming from the battery stud into the interior and to the fuse block first... Then go from there...

You can download free service manuals here....

MyMopar - Mopar Forums & Information - Service Manuals
 
My guess, is you have a voltage drop in the wiring going to the ammeter. Where are you pulling your voltage source for the voltmeter?
 
My guess, is you have a voltage drop in the wiring going to the ammeter. Where are you pulling your voltage source for the voltmeter?

Alternator ...I'm betting it's at the bulkhead ..I need to get a picture of it.

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Where can I get the center connector to replace this.. I have a battery cutoff connected to battery.. and I use it, but want to fix this even though I don't look forward to screwing with this.. ESPECIALLY if I need to go under dash..
 
Where can I get the center connector to replace this.. I have a battery cutoff connected to battery.. and I use it, but want to fix this even though I don't look forward to screwing with this.. ESPECIALLY if I need to go under dash..

You mean for that attaches to the bulkhead? I am not sure if they repop those. I eliminated the wiring to the bulk head. Search MAD Electric here.
 
I'm taking it that the wire you need to change is from the relay directly to the ammeter, and eliminate that wire from the bulkhead, using a fuseable link in the circuit. To eliminate the ammeter do you join the three wires ( two ammeter and the new hot wire ?). Or am I starting a fire.
 
mine is exactly same - the ammeter is basically crap after 50yrs. - no worries - pay attention to your voltage.
 
My volt meter and ammeter disagree. My volt meter reads about 14 V with a little accelerator. My ammeter reads slight discharge always a little more with lights or any electrical device on. Whats up, and please dumb it down. I know the difference between amps and volts, just don't understand why they read opposites.

also check the studs on the back of the ammeter to make sure that they and the connections are good an tight...

I speak german ---> gudentight.... :D
 
My volt meter and ammeter disagree. My volt meter reads about 14 V with a little accelerator. My ammeter reads slight discharge always a little more with lights or any electrical device on. Whats up, and please dumb it down. I know the difference between amps and volts, just don't understand why they read opposites.
Here is some very good information.

Catalog
 
I'm going to disagree with you guys saying its all the ammeter's fault.
The ammeter is telling him exactly what is happening.

My volt meter and ammeter disagree. My volt meter reads about 14 V with a little accelerator. My ammeter reads slight discharge always a little more with lights or any electrical device on. Whats up, and please dumb it down. I know the difference between amps and volts, just don't understand why they read opposites.

The reason they can move 'opposite' is that car/truck ammeters do not show all the current.
You car has two power feeds. One for each source of power.
1. Battery that has stored energy around 12.5 Volts
2. Alternator that can supply power regulated to roughly 14.0 Volts. It's ability to supply power at the regulated voltage increases with rpm.
Power will flow from the higher voltage source.

The ammeter is in the battery's wire to the main splice, which is also its charge line.
So, the ammeter only shows current flowing to or from the battery.
I know it says alternator on many of ammeters. It's the probably the same logic that resulted in BATT cast into the alternators next to the output stud.
Whatever the reason, it only adds to the confusion.

Basic power supply scheme looks like this.
upload_2019-9-27_20-32-0.png


Now lets look at the evidence and use it to solve the problem.

ammeter never goes to charge side .. at the bulkhead the fuseable link wire from the starter relay looks pretty shabby and slightly melted at the bulkhead. Is that the one that eventually leads to the meter.

This is how the power should normally flow withthe alternator regulated to 14 Volts once the battery is recharged.
Your '70 has slightly different votlage regulation and another conector for the ignition switch, but concept is the same.
upload_2019-9-27_20-48-1.png


Turning on the headlights while driving causes the ammeter to show discharge.
That must mean that the easiest path from a power source to the headlights is from the battery rather than not the alternator.
Based on the bulkhead connector photos, its probably due to high resistance in the alternator output.
upload_2019-9-27_21-2-10.png


It would be helpful to know where the voltmeter is measuring, but this probably what is happening.
Even if the alternator is producing power at 14 Volts, once the current has made it through the connector mess, maybe its down to 13.5 Volts or less.
Voltage drops through every resistance the current the current flows through.

Where can I get the center connector to replace this.. I have a battery cutoff connected to battery.. and I use it, but want to fix this even though I don't look forward to screwing with this.. ESPECIALLY if I need to go under dash..
I've replaced connectors by looking up the part number in the service manual and then checking ebay etc.
Its also worth posting a wanted request in the FABO classified. State the year, model and which connector(s).
There is foam seal inside each connector. Those can be bought from DMT
The wire terminals are probably Packard 58 aka Chrysler type, but may be Packard 56.
You'll need an open barrel crimper.

I'm taking it that the wire you need to change is from the relay directly to the ammeter, and eliminate that wire from the bulkhead, using a fuseable link in the circuit. To eliminate the ammeter do you join the three wires ( two ammeter and the new hot wire ?). Or am I starting a fire.
You might be.

Important points.
Protect everything downstream of the battery with a 16 gage fusible link.
Fix the bulkhead connector, especially the alternator output and the 'ignition wire'. The ignition wire also feeds the voltage regulator. If it sees the wrong voltage (due to resistance in the connectors) it doesn't know that.
You can run a parallel alternator output wire to the ammeter stud closest to the fusible link.
- use good ring terminals, insulated would be best.
- use a good grommet
All of these power circuit wires are always connected to the battery. Touch any one of them to ground and the battery will discharge. ('til the fusible link melts)

The problem is almost certainly in the alternator output wire.
Based on the evidence so far, the battery power feed/charge line is the one in better condition!
 
So by the first photo, if I run a wire from the relay ( thru a fuseable link) tie it to both of the ammeter wires, I eliminate the ammeter and my bulkhead problem ??

... I plan on taking the cluster out this winter and redo all the gauges in the dash of this '68 Charger, and put a picture of my granddaughters where the ammeter was.:).
 
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I'm not say ammeters can't fail, but nothing is pointing to that here.
A sometimes problemetic location is the connector for ignition switch in the column of the early 70s cars.
So far nothing is pointing there either.

A couple diagrams of alternative ways to reduce or eliminate the load of the alternator output goiung through the bulkhead.
Overcharging
 
So by the first photo, if I run a wire from the relay ( thru a fuseable link) to both of the ammeter wires, I eliminate the ammeter and my bulkhead problem ?? .. It's a '68 b-body.
Why do you think there is an ammeter problem?
The connection I circled is the alternator output wire, R6.
It goes from the alternator's output stud to the main splice.
The one terminal on the ammeter also connects to the main splice.
That makes it a relatively easy connection and a good place to divide the load when the battery is charging.
upload_2019-9-26_19-33-26-png.png
 
The ammeter reads discharge or to the negative side, yet the battery is fine and has not gone dead.

I don't understand your terms. If I connect the wires as I said will that work.

My Dart had a loose connection at the ammeter a month ago and the car died on my way home, going up a bridge, it barely rolled over the crest and down to a safe spot to pull over. They almost drove over me. Everything was dead. I poked around under the dash and got a nice blue spark. I had a loose connection at my ammeter. I double nutted it and it is fine, but almost wasn't.

I don't understand why you find it wrong to eliminate a bad design (as many have said) so my car doesn't burn. It's not an important thing for me to have an operating ammeter.
 
Lets look at the diagram again.
The ignition and alternator's rotor use about 4 amps together.
Turn on the headlights and there's another 9 - 11 amps needed.
Maybe the alternator supplies some of that, but your ammeter shows the rest is coming from the battery.
upload_2019-9-27_21-50-39.png


The only explanation for that is high resistance in the alternator output wire.
Your bulkheads connector shows repair and possible heat damage, so that's the most likely first culprit.
There may be more.

Get a '68 shop manual. You'll see where the wiring diagrams the schematics here were based on. It will also have all the cavities in the bulkhead connector for your car, and the correct wire colors.
I don't show the connector cavities in the schematics here because every year and model has slight differences. Wire colors, switch connectors, and other details also may be a little different. Differences of no importance for discussion but you need the exact color, size, etc when tracing on the car.
For example I think in '68 wire from the main splice to the ignition switch got red insulation. Anyway, tThe last thing we want to do is unwrap all the harnesses just to follow a wire.
 
I don't understand why you find it wrong to eliminate a bad design (as many have said) so my car doesn't burn. It's not an important thing for me to have an operating ammeter.
Because its not a bad design. It doesn't matter how many people say it.
One advantage of the factory wiring strategy is alternator output goes straight to the welded splice. No fusible link or other connections other than the bulkhead. The bulkhead connection on many, but not all, uses a relatively small terminal for the loads expected. That's where one of the problems on your car is. There may be more.

There shouldn't be much current flowing through the ammeter and fusible link, except briefly after starting, and again after sitting at stop lights with lights on.

The fact you had a loose connection on the back of the ammeter is something to look into.
One possibility is the wires have been messed with, and it wasn't tightened up.
If that's all, that's great. But its worth visually checking a couple things. One is if the ring terminal was replaced or damaged. Another is for fiber insulating washers where needed. Definately don't want those wires touching chassis metal.
Third is the ammeter studs themselves. If they are loose, then there is a problem. If overheated, at least some years/models the press fit of the studs will loosen.
 
Some people think all the power runs through the ammeter - its not true.
On a car with no modifications, the normal load on the ammeter is zero or close to zero.
upload_2019-9-27_20-48-1-png.png


The exceptions are when the alternator dies, when starting, and when recharging.
Problems happen when there are non-stock loads, such as EFI, electric fans, etc wired to the battery.
Another common situation was with trucks equiped with winches and plows running off a connection to the battery.
Less common, but good to be aware of is using the alternator to charge a completely dead battery.
Charging Battery with Alternator - Warning
 
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