Planning a shop build, any suggestions?

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barbee6043 said:
I have some good friends in Arkansas, but a couple of them, poor souls, their family tree has very few branches!!!! :poke:
I have built a couple of what I called back in Mo. I called them pole barn homes. I had the pole barn guys put up the shell, I added doors, windows, and went from there. I did one on a pad and another with subfloor. Saved me time and money especially when I had not enough of either. If a F4 or 5 hits your place doesn't matter what it is, fancy or whatever, ya better have good insurance!
Whatever, just as good as materials and workmanship that goes in. But some things are faster and a little cheaper.
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Hah! I got no idea what you are referring to as I most certainly dropped my sister before I married my cousin!
Virtually most every structure around here is some variation of a pole barn. Keep in mind we are in a heavy Ag community. We are looking at burying a twenty ft shipping container in side of our mountain for tornado events. Not to derail thread but do any of you have experience with shipping containers as shelter? If so PM me so as not to derail thread.
 
75slant6 said:
Hello ladies and gents, I’m in the planning stages of a 40x60 shop and open to any suggestions/ideas y’all might have.
A few plans I have are 2 12x10 or 12x12 doors in the 60’ side of the shop and I plan to put heat in the floor. Aside from that, I’m all ears.
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Spend the $money to spray foam insulate the roof and the gable ends.
I did on my new shop building, very happy with the energy savings and the sound reduction.
 
75slant6 said:
14’ sidewalls at a minimum
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I did 10 foot walls then coffered the bay for the lift gives you 13' 6 feet ceiling height. Just have to order the correct trusses. Saves a bunch of money.
I can provide pic's if interested.
 
Following this thread with keen interest. My garage has finally been started - 50' x 34' inside dimensions. 18x12 door and two 10x10 doors. Walls are 14' high. 100A separate electrical box. Water supply inside. Will be adding my own air piping. Concrete floor is 8" thick in center 10x10 door bay for planned future hoist.

Listening to all of your inputs!

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I like the idea of using 'Hurricane Clips' in the post above. They may hold your roof for a F1, MAY. Bright Sinkers to nail the roof trusses should be banned. I use construction screws for most. Takes a lot longer

I also use 1 1/2 inch #8 construction screws to hold my roof plywood down and use the roofing nails that have the square and are ring shank.

We do get F1 and F2 tornadoes up here in western Washington State. But more likely just a 70 to 100+ MPH blow 5 or 6 times a year. Derencho Storms
 
If you don’t Reinforce all of the floor reinforce part of it so you can have a work area that you can pull from the floor. Any area where you can install anchors too tie things down and pull.
You wouldn’t believe how handy this can be…
 
Just like building a motor, tra
Oldiron440 said:
If you don’t Reinforce all of the floor reinforce part of it so you can have a work area that you can pull from the floor. Any area where you can install anchors too tie things down and pull.
You wouldn’t believe how handy this can be…
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Just like building a motor, tranny or rear end, the weakest part goes first. Do it right the first time or do it again later.
 
Oldiron440 said:
If you don’t Reinforce all of the floor reinforce part of it so you can have a work area that you can pull from the floor. Any area where you can install anchors too tie things down and pull.
You wouldn’t believe how handy this can be…
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You might need to repair a peace of equipment you don’t even own at this point some day with some pulling a little heat etc you just never know. I picked up an old Busky ten ton frame post for $200 and a unibody clamp set for $50 because the body shop’s have gone to frame machine’s.
 
Oldiron440 said:
If you don’t Reinforce all of the floor reinforce part of it so you can have a work area that you can pull from the floor. Any area where you can install anchors too tie things down and pull.
You wouldn’t believe how handy this can be…
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I wonder, would it work to concrete a pipe vertically into the floor with the top being flush with the concrete, then have a second pipe with a flange welded on top for a winch that I could slide down into the first pipe whenever I need to pull something. Not sure if that all made sense, I can draw a picture and post that if that’d help.
 
Swinger 340 said:
Cuda Hunter, I don't understand, you say you build these elaborate garages, but you have a "Pole Barn". A pole barn is good for outside storage, like a boat or camper, but for a working room as a shop/ garage that should be squeaky clean, a pole barn is not the way to go.
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Swinger 340 said:
For all you guys beating me up, I think you have misinterpreted my #61 post. A person that builds "high end" garages, built himself a pole barn. I'm not saying a pole barn will not work, but as a builder, why not build the better one for himself.
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I just "own" a pole barn. Definitely didn't build it. It's down in some AG territory that I happen to own land in. Again, I didn't build it. It was built in the 50's. Still there, but all the wood has termite rot. Going to have to rebuild it or tear it down.
One of my employees is down there camping at this moment, tearing out all the baseplates and replacing with treated lumber dipped in termite control stuff. Then the studs will be replaced next. Then I'm going to closed cell foam the entire building. 30x30. "hunting camp"

Wasn't trying to beat up all you guys with pole barns. I realize they have been built forever and they are still the go to in some areas of the country due to them being cheap. I've built a few pole barns. Whatever you want as a client, I can build, at my cost. My engineer/architect would beg to differ with anyone about pole barns.

We have some of the driest dirt in the nation out here and wood still deteriorates pretty quickly in 20 years or so. That's quick in my book as I build houses that should last 2-3 hundred years with minimal maintenance.
 
75slant6 said:
I wonder, would it work to concrete a pipe vertically into the floor with the top being flush with the concrete, then have a second pipe with a flange welded on top for a winch that I could slide down into the first pipe whenever I need to pull something. Not sure if that all made sense, I can draw a picture and post that if that’d help.
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Made perfect sense to me, we call that “farmineering” We use what we got. We got three solutions around here.
High tech: computer
Low tech: Hammer
Aztec: throw a virgin in the well
 
Termites dislike penta treated wood if done right.
The oldest "pole Barn" I had built and have knowledge is a 55 x 120 indoor arena in Missouri. Still there and solid but they have NO termites there!! Built with solid 6 x 6 pole, NOT the laminated chit some try to use.
Just saying.
Farmers have used pole buildings every where and still do. They are just NOT fancy enogh for those that need prettier maybe.
Whatever I have NO hound in this race.
 
Sublime one said:
Hah! I got no idea what you are referring to as I most certainly dropped my sister before I married my cousin!
Virtually most every structure around here is some variation of a pole barn. Keep in mind we are in a heavy Ag community. We are looking at burying a twenty ft shipping container in side of our mountain for tornado events. Not to derail thread but do any of you have experience with shipping containers as shelter? If so PM me so as not to derail thread.
Click to expand...

The thing you have to watch on burying a shipping container is that the side walls will collapse inward if you do not reinforce them before putting the fill back in around them. The other thing is those wood floors are treated to resist salt water and insects and what have you. So technically speaking you would want to get a new container that has not had the wood floors treated yet so that you would be able to breathe without taking in harmful chemicals.
 
barbee6043 said:
Termites dislike penta treated wood if done right.
The oldest "pole Barn" I had built and have knowledge is a 55 x 120 indoor arena in Missouri. Still there and solid but they have NO termites there!! Built with solid 6 x 6 pole, NOT the laminated chit some try to use.
Just saying.
Farmers have used pole buildings every where and still do. They are just NOT fancy enogh for those that need prettier maybe.
Whatever I have NO hound in this race.
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Sorry I have lived in Missouri for 30 years and there are termites here, had to have two house treated for them.
Sorry again, If you put wood in the ground anywhere it will eventually rot.
You cant beat a code compliant 2x6 custom framed building that is spray foamed insulated, the best long term bang for the $buck.
 
75slant6 said:
Hello ladies and gents, I’m in the planning stages of a 40x60 shop and open to any suggestions/ideas y’all might have.
A few plans I have are 2 12x10 or 12x12 doors in the 60’ side of the shop and I plan to put heat in the floor. Aside from that, I’m all ears.
Click to expand...
Hopefully I'm not too late to offer some advice on your concrete and maybe some others can learn some good "stuff" about concrete. No matter where you pour a slab of concrete on the earth, gravity will start to pull down the aggregate in the matrix of the slab and pores or bleed channels form. That is the path the free-water (bleed) uses to come to the surface, weeks, months and years after. I'm talking about unenhanced concrete. 9' x9' x 4" thick is one cubic yard of concrete; most Batch Plants will use 32 gls of water / cyd when mixing and transporting your concrete. That 4" slab only needs about 15 gls to make the concrete hard, which leaves 17 gls of free-water to cause all kinds of problems with your slab. Here comes my sales-pitch! If you are considering in the future an epoxy floor or just an extremely densified floor, use a concrete admixture called Vapor Lock by Specialty Products Group. Vapor Lock Enhanced Concrete, VLEC, uses that 17 gls to make additional CSH gel. Calcium Silicate Hydrate is what makes concrete stronger. VLEC will virtually double your psi strength, waterproof and vaporproof, it's a shrinkage reducer and a corrosion inhibitor. I HAVE THE DRYEST GARAGE IN MICHIGAN. Depending on your location, VLEC could add $40-$50/ cyd to your cost. Your slab @ 4" thick is about 29+ cyd so for about $1200 you will have zero moisture from your slab, zero slab sweat...and always remember, Mother Nature wins 100% of the time so your concrete might still crack. I've presented to thousands of Architects & Engineers and one question is "do I need the vapor barrier under the slab?" My garage slab doesn't have one but that is the least expensive part of your garage so when the concrete cracks, the Engineers want it there. VLEC stops all transmission of moisture and vapor thru concrete in any direction. Hope this helps and enjoy the build
 
They are experimenting with adding Carbon Dioxide gas to the concrete mix. Said to use less water and make the concrete tougher. The Co2 stays in the hard concrete.
 
That is one of the biggest problems with concrete. People want to add too much water so it will be easier for them to screed. When that water evaporates it leaves a void and more cracks. I had a friend that retired from Corp of Engineers building dams. He told me that they didn't pour concrete, they placed it, Joe
 
@pauls340 I would like to learn more about the concrete add mix. Unfortunately I can not find any videos that show real world concrete being poured with the add mix. In the sample videos it only shows the mixing part of the process and nothing to explain the consistency during pour. It gels. Therefore will not screed the same. Before using a product that is unknown I need to know how this will pour, flow, screed and dry. Seeing how removing concrete that has plumbing inside of it as well as wire mesh and rebar it's difficult to install something unknown when it will cost 40K plus to remove and then another 15K to reprep the area again.
Seems there are some cool products in the line up but nothing that is specifically driven towards residential concrete flats.
Can you supply any videos of the said product? What product are you promoting in residential concrete as an add mixture to the already mixed concrete in the truck when it arrives on site.
It appears that most products are driven by commercial procedures.
 
red67gts said:
That is one of the biggest problems with concrete. People want to add too much water so it will be easier for them to screed. When that water evaporates it leaves a void and more cracks. I had a friend that retired from Corp of Engineers building dams. He told me that they didn't pour concrete, they placed it, Joe
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Concrete needs the right amount of water per application. Rule of thumb is just enough water to completely saturate the dry cement with the sand and or rock as with hand mixing. I would rather see a little over water, then not enough. As for cracking, both over and under water can cause a crack. I am a old time tile setter and know a little about concrete and concrete mix. We use to "DRY PACK" (what it was called) our floors before laying tile before they came out with "Thin-set" (thank God). We would dampen our mix, not wet (sand and cement only) pack the layment and screed. Sprinkle dry cement than lay our flooring. Next was the Key part. We than soaked the floor with water, to harden the cement base and bond the tile. Grouting was also down the same day (more water). Again, with just the right amount of water. As for screeding poured concrete, too dry or too wet is not recommended. Pour, rake, juke, screed and then finish with a smooth or ruff surface depending on the application. I have seen dry lumps of concrete coming out of a concrete truck before and stopped them to add water and remix. Note: If a vapor barrier (plastic sheeting) is used, less water is needed and a dry soil you would add extra water. I wet the soil before pouring if no vapor barrier is used. Reason is it gives more time to finish the slab. Adding water to the top of the slab for a couple days adds to a better cure and a harder surface.
 
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Hint: In Texas most farm buildings are built with steel, that is used oil stem. Cs or Zs, roof tin. Cheaper, stronger, no termites.
Insulate to suit, make interior walls how ever you want.
 
Cuda Hunter said:
@pauls340 I would like to learn more about the concrete add mix. Unfortunately I can not find any videos that show real world concrete being poured with the add mix. In the sample videos it only shows the mixing part of the process and nothing to explain the consistency during pour. It gels. Therefore will not screed the same. Before using a product that is unknown I need to know how this will pour, flow, screed and dry. Seeing how removing concrete that has plumbing inside of it as well as wire mesh and rebar it's difficult to install something unknown when it will cost 40K plus to remove and then another 15K to reprep the area again.
Seems there are some cool products in the line up but nothing that is specifically driven towards residential concrete flats.
Can you supply any videos of the said product? What product are you promoting in residential concrete as an add mixture to the already mixed concrete in the truck when it arrives on site.
It appears that most products are driven by commercial procedures.
Click to expand...
First do not rely on the internet for information on concrete.
Pick out the best concrete plant in your area and go there and talk to them about what you are planning and tell them in no way do you want it to settle or crack and get a their recommendation in writing. When you order the concrete make sure the spec is adhered to.
Worked for me 7 years now and not one crack and I now absolutely nothing about concrete
I will also mention that the base work has to be correct or it will not work, my concrete contractor worked for 2 full days prepping the site before the floor was poured.
 
512Stroker said:
First do not rely on the internet for information on concrete.
Pick out the best concrete plant in your area and go there and talk to them about what you are planning and tell them in no way do you want it to settle or crack and get a their recommendation in writing. When you order the concrete make sure the spec is adhered to.
Worked for me 7 years now and not one crack and I now absolutely nothing about concrete
I will also mention that the base work has to be correct or it will not work, my concrete contractor worked for 2 full days prepping the site before the floor was poured.
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I can agree in partial with some of the stuff you said Mr. 512 however the internet can be a wealth of info especially if what you are reading comes with 17 years experience backed by over 500 years of concreting. It's difficult to determine who the "best" concrete plant is anywhere in a territory and sometimes it's best to visit two. Usually, your concrete finisher will tell you who to see [because they favor them (usually)]. Here in Michigan all my concrete Batch Plant people will guarantee you two things; your concrete is not free, and, concrete cracks. You are 100% correct, substrate prep work is critical to helping to eliminate cracking. We're getting close to replacing our drive and once the substrate is completed, we will be saturating the rock with Vapor Lock 555 to stabilize that before the mud.
 
Compaction is the key, rent a compactor and take all day with it, just don't rely on what they are doing to be totally correct. When I poured my slabs, I screwed in keyways, so the slabs don't shift and become unlevel. Each slab is "keyed" into the next. As you can see in this photo the furring strip is wood screwed into the form and when removed, forms a divot the entire length of the concrete, and the fresh pour fills in the void.

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furring-channel-78-25GA.jpg
 
S E Texas. We have fine and, called sugar sand. These peeps here build most all their homes on slabs. I am amazed at the number of homes that in a few years have cracked, settled bad slabs. Costs a bunch to fix.
 
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