Planning a shop build, any suggestions?

[Dale Davies]

It will definitely be getting a 2 and maybe a 4 post lift ASAP.

Concrete floor strength is a big concern for hoists. 2 post needs to be bolted down. Consider getting the boltdown measurements to weld long nuts to a rebar frame. Also concrete wire comes in two gauges and you can have fibre added to the cement mix which adds strength. Consider underfloor beams which are trenches with rebar. Build the floor strong to support whatever. Also go over on the roof overhang. Yes the cost goes up quickly, but helps keep the sun off the walls and rain away from getting under the slab. Do not build too close to trees. Consider branches and roots as they grow. Another concern is storm damage and blowing a tree on the building.

 

[cosgig]

It will definitely be getting a 2 and maybe a 4 post lift ASAP.

you will need 12’ sidewalls then. Pole arms are nice because they’re cheaper, but much harder to insulate because every span is waaay to big to insulate.

 

[Cuda Hunter]

you will need 12’ sidewalls then. Pole arms are nice because they’re cheaper, but much harder to insulate because every span is waaay to big to insulate.

Since he is using closed cell foam the spans can be sprayed as long as there is a batten board for a backer. The closed cell foam will harden and create it's own self supporting wall to an extent. Incredible stuff.

My opinion, do not build a "pole" barn. They are cheaper because there is no "foundation". Instead, you get "pole's" of wood put into the ground. Even in the desert around here the poles will rot or be eaten. Well worth the price of a foundation. I have a few pole barns both in the desert and the high desert and they are not worthy of the cost savings of not having a foundation.

 

[cosgig]

Since he is using closed cell foam the spans can be sprayed as long as there is a batten board for a backer. The closed cell foam will harden and create it's own self supporting wall to an extent. Incredible stuff.

My opinion, do not build a "pole" barn. They are cheaper because there is no "foundation". Instead, you get "pole's" of wood put into the ground. Even in the desert around here the poles will rot or be eaten. Well worth the price of a foundation. I have a few pole barns both in the desert and the high desert and they are not worthy of the cost savings of not having a foundation.

the trusses of a pole barn are usually 4’ on center, with some of the higher end barns at 8’ on center. That’s a mighty big span for insulating the ceiling.

 

[Cuda Hunter]

As long as there are the typical 1x8 boards that support the metal roof the foam will be just fine. I do agree though, 8' with no horizontal support boards would be too much. Over time, loads will bow the roof down and eventually snap the foam. That stuff will stick to anything. I build my homes with closed cell foam in the rafters on the sub straight of most homes. I have yet to see the foam fail. I try to create homes that are insulated to R60 throughout with no thermal breaks. I use I.C.F. on the walls and foundations.

 

[Cuda Hunter]

@75slant6 If you want a truly comfortable garage that is pretty much bullet proof, build an I.C.F. house. Insulated Concrete Foundation. The best garages I have ever build are icf. I build in locations with wind speeds of 100 m.p.h. yearly. Snow loads of 6+ feet. Some built next to highways with loud Jake Brakes and the icf insulates against sound better than anything else I've ever built.

 

[Dave_J]

When doing all the 'DUAL' power outlets, run "12/3 with ground" wire. Use the BLACK wire for the left outlet and the RED for the right outlet. This way you have 2 ea 120 volts 20 amps split at each outlet. In most areas you can put up to 15 outlets per run but if you are feeding Dual outlets with 12/2 that means only 7 in that run. I also put a 20 amp commercial Dual pole switch to shut off all runs when not in use. Avoid a fire if something plugged in shorts out.

Per NEC and Local code, put in a a good sub panel. Drive a ground rod or tie the MGN to your rebar cage under the floor. Do NOT put the 'Green' ground and neutral bonding screw in the sub panel. All grounds go to a separate ground buss bar tied to the MGN and all WHITE neutrals are tied to the main feed neutral buss bar. Simple code work

Put in at least 2 ea 240 volt welder outlets using 10/4 (close to Sub panel) or 8/4 gauge (for the longer run). I like 30 amp twist lock and have extensions with them.

Put in a generator if you have a lot of power outages like us.

Use 3/4 inch copper piping that is sloped away from the compressor. Put a drain **** at the very end. Use 1/2 inch 'T''s off the 3/4 pointing up. Then put 4 inches of 1/2 up to a 'U' bend and make your air line drop. This will make any moisture run down hill and not up to the U bend and down the air drop. Air pipe moves a lot more than water pipe. So make sure to clamp it at every stud. On 3/4 inch pipe I have cut 1 inch long 3/4 rubber water hose and split it, slip over the copper and clamp it tight.
Do not use PVC or Pex pipe for air.

Cable TV? RG11 direct burial.

Internet? For internet I'd run a Cat6 cable from the main router in the house and put a second wifi router in the garage with its own user name and password.

 

[75slant6]

the trusses of a pole barn are usually 4’ on center, with some of the higher end barns at 8’ on center. That’s a mighty big span for insulating the ceiling.

Yeah walls will be insulated with closed cell foam, not positive on roof yet. Probably spray foam on underside of roof with no ceiling. If I install a ceiling, I could insulate the ceiling and have a “traditional” attic. Leaning toward insulating the roof line though.

 

[75slant6]

There’s been a lot of excellent ideas shared here! I believe I’m going to change the build site of the shop to the opposite (south east) side of the house than I’d planned to, due to the amount of dirt work it would have taken on the northwest side of the house. Along with the new location, will likely also come a change in design. Instead of having the overhead doors in the eave side of the shop, I’m thinking of putting them in the gable end, then adding 12x60 lean-to’s down both sides of the shop.
One end of the shop will definitely have a mezzanine for parts storage, with a bathroom underneath.

 

[Confusedoldman]

Build it twice as big as your plan! It's unbelievable how quickly you run out of space.

 

[Swinger 340]

@75slant6 If you want a truly comfortable garage that is pretty much bullet proof, build an I.C.F. house. Insulated Concrete Foundation. The best garages I have ever build are icf. I build in locations with wind speeds of 100 m.p.h. yearly. Snow loads of 6+ feet. Some built next to highways with loud Jake Brakes and the icf insulates against sound better than anything else I've ever built.

Cuda Hunter, I don't understand, you say you build these elaborate garages, but you have a "Pole Barn". A pole barn is good for outside storage, like a boat or camper, but for a working room as a shop/ garage that should be squeaky clean, a pole barn is not the way to go.

 

[Dicer]

but for a working room as a shop/ garage that should be squeaky clean, a pole barn is not the way to go.

That is not always true, as in my post it was pretty easy to convert to a very nice shop area and mancave all in one. And have a look of a lonely pole barn as a shell for a well-made shop.

 

[Jadaharabi]

Cuda Hunter, I don't understand, you say you build these elaborate garages, but you have a "Pole Barn". A pole barn is good for outside storage, like a boat or camper, but for a working room as a shop/ garage that should be squeaky clean, a pole barn is not the way to go.

.
Tell the thousands of farmers and contractors that use pole barns every day to do their maintenance and build things.
As for outside storage I consider a pole barn inside storage.
And believe me the thousands of us kids that were called "shade tree mechanics" from the 50s 60s and 70s would have loved to have had a pole barn to work on our cars in. I have never had a totally sterile environment to build engines or Transmissions it would be nice but it's not necessary.
Just my opinion which I highly value.

 

[Swinger 340]

.
Tell the thousands of farmers and contractors that use pole barns every day to do the maintenance and build things.
As for outside storage I consider a pole barn inside storage.
And believe me the thousands of us kids that were called "shade tree mechanics" from the 50s 60s and 70s would have loved to have had a pole barn to work on our cars in. I have never had a totally sterile environment to build engines or Transmissions it would be nice but it's not necessary.
Just my opinion which I highly value.

Times have changed. I also have worked on my cars during the same time frame, except the 50's. Now - a - days, I don't believe anyone would rebuild a motor or transmission, store a $40,000 or more project car or any other items of value in a pole barn. Not saying you can't, but not a bright idea. I can drive 120 mph on bald tires, but not smart.

 

[75slant6]

Times have changed. I also have worked on my cars during the same time frame, except the 50's. Now - a - days, I don't believe anyone would rebuild a motor or transmission, store a $40,000 or more project car or any other items of value in a pole barn. Not saying you can't, but not a bright idea. I can drive 120 mph on bald tires, but not smart.

Idk what they do where you’re from, but around here, majority of shops and barns and even some houses are built using pole building construction.

 

[barbee6043]

You can make a pole barn into anything you want and as clean as you want.
Rot???? The poles are treated, last decades. Treat for termites if needed. I have had and built more than a few pole barns in my life of 74 years.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[Sublime one]

So I am literally in the process of building a shop slash apartment upstairs as is described by so many of you. I went 40by100 with 17 ft eves. Apartment is just under 1600 sq ft, with kitchen two bedrooms and bath. I put a second bath downstairs directly under upstairs one (in the bar) HVAC in apartment. The lean to on the side is a great idea. Also pouring your pad a bit long on gable end is a plus, think patio. I am in process now of building the deck.

 

[Swinger 340]

Idk what they do where you’re from, but around here, majority of shops and barns and even some houses are built using pole building construction.

Sense you are asking, I'm from South Florida and Yes, we build stronger. I also have family up your way, Hebron, Ky and they also build as we do down here. I'm just saying that there is a better way to build a workshop than a pole barn, if I was to build my own or have someone to build it for me. Do they work, Yes!!!! Is there a better way, Yes!!!! Remember the "Three little Pigs" LOL

 

[75slant6]

Sense you are asking, I'm from South Florida and Yes, we build stronger. I also have family up your way, Hebron, Ky and they also build as we do down here. I'm just saying that there is a better way to build a workshop than a pole barn, if I was to build my own or have someone to build it for me. Do they work, Yes!!!! Is there a better way, Yes!!!! Remember the "Three little Pigs" LOL

I agree there’s stronger, longer lasting methods of construction and I plan on utilizing some of those in future builds, as funds allow. That said, this shop, at this place, will be a pole barn for the following reasons. 1. It’s the cheapest method and I would rather sacrifice a little longevity for more square footage. 2. I’m able to build it myself (I could stick frame or do some of the steel building kits myself as well). 3. We don’t intend on staying at this place super long term. If we’re here 5-10 years, fine. If we find another place that we absolutely love and move in 2 years, that’s fine too. So it doesn’t make sense to go all out on the expense/build method of this shop.
If this were a place we’d be planning to stay long term, I’d be building 2 buildings. A pole barn for a barn/car and parts storage. Then a 30x50 or 40x60 block building with a shed style roof and it’d be painted/set up to look like a vintage Mopar dealership/service station. I’d have my office/man cave in there as well as have room to park my Duster plus have 2-3 bays with lifts to work on projects.

 

[1WildRT]

How set are you on 40x60? (2400 sf) It works, but it's basically a really big space with no natural defining shape.. I know lots of guys with shops that size.... But I prefer 30x80 (also 2400 sf) but cars wind up with defined stall areas, you can divide the bays with short walls give more areas to park tool boxes & shop tools like grinders & presses, you can section off an area for body work with a wall from floor to ceiling so the dust doesn't travel... Or section off an area as a machine shop or wood shop....

Just something to consider..

 

[Swinger 340]

For all you guys beating me up, I think you have misinterpreted my #61 post. A person that builds "high end" garages, built himself a pole barn. I'm not saying a pole barn will not work, but as a builder, why not build the better one for himself.

 

[Phreakish]

For all you guys beating me up, I think you have misinterpreted my #61 post. A person that builds "high end" garages, built himself a pole barn. I'm not saying a pole barn will not work, but as a builder, why not build the better one for himself.

Building "high end" means getting paid to build it.
Not always feasible to build for yourself what you get paid to make for others.

 

[barbee6043]

So I am literally in the process of building a shop slash apartment upstairs as is described by so many of you. I went 40by100 with 17 ft eves. Apartment is just under 1600 sq ft, with kitchen two bedrooms and bath. I put a second bath downstairs directly under upstairs one (in the bar) HVAC in apartment. The lean to on the side is a great idea. Also pouring your pad a bit long on gable end is a plus, think patio. I am in process now of building the deck.

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Cool! In Texas we call them "barnameniums". I have a friend back in Mo. built about the same 12-15vyears ago. He has a LOT of cars and parts!

 

[Sublime one]

Cool! In Texas we call them "barnameniums". I have a friend back in Mo. built about the same 12-15vyears ago. He has a LOT of cars and parts!

That is exactly what we call them as well here in Arkansas, but you do know what we call Texas skydivers don’t ya? ……… Skeet! Hehehe

 

[barbee6043]

That is exactly what we call them as well here in Arkansas, but you do know what we call Texas skydivers don’t ya? ……… Skeet! Hehehe

I have some good friends in Arkansas, but a couple of them, poor souls, their family tree has very few branches!!!!
I have built a couple of what I called back in Mo. I called them pole barn homes. I had the pole barn guys put up the shell, I added doors, windows, and went from there. I did one on a pad and another with subfloor. Saved me time and money especially when I had not enough of either. If a F4 or 5 hits your place doesn't matter what it is, fancy or whatever, ya better have good insurance!
Whatever, just as good as materials and workmanship that goes in. But some things are faster and a little cheaper.