HEI conversion benefits

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70Duster340

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I have tried to research this topic both here and on the Internet, but I haven't found anything that will answer my question.

Once this conversion is done, can the ECU and the ballast resistor be removed?

I know there's purists here who would say I am blasphemous for contaminating a Mopar with GM parts, but if you can see your way to overlook my transgressions, I would be grateful.

Thanks
 
Yes, ECU & bal res can be removed. The conversion to HEI is a good move, period, for a number of reasons:
- if you use an E core coil, such as the MSD #8207, you can eliminate the bal res.
- there are less electrical connections with HEI, so less chance of problems from loose connections, corrosion, etc
- you can run 0.060" plug gaps, because the spark has more energy in it [ High Energy..]. Common sense tells you run the biggest gap you can....
- HEI has variable dwell, Chrys ECU does not. This means dwell is reduced at lower rpms where it is not needed & the coil runs cooler because of this. At higher rpms where more dwell is reqd to fully charge the coil, HEI has extended dwell.


The easiest method to swap to HEI is a HEI dist, coil in cap. Two wire hookup, one for ign, one for a tach. Doesn't get much easier........ Very easy to modify the centri curve if desired as weights springs are under the rotor.
If you use your existing dist to trigger a HEI module, you may need to retain a bal res if the coil you use requires a bal res. The bal res needs to match the coil used, & may not be 0.5 ohm that Chrys used.

That is why the complete HEI dist makes everything so easy...
 
abodyjoe said:
best way to go HEI in my opinion. keep your mopar dist. too.. Mopar HEI Conversion
Click to expand...
Yeah, keeping my Mopar Performance distributor. I'm using a Mallory e-coil, and I have the adapter for the HEI module that attaches to the distributor. The engine is out of the car, so I can't say how well it will run. Now I'm curious about how to clean up the wiring harness to remove the wiring for the ECU and the ballast resistor.
 
Mopar HEI conversion

With inexpensive new '95 Ford F150 2 post E-coil. Easy to wire.

This e-coil runs straight 12 volts, no ballast resistor, runs cool, puts out 60,000 volts.

Quicker starts, plugs burn cleaner. Quick throttle response.

These are from my experience on my 360 engine run stand, comparing points distributor, mopar electronic with brain box, and mopar HEI conversion with E-Coil.

Mopar HEI conversion with E-Coil is my favorite. The E-Coil is what works the magic, the HEI just triggers it.

Screenshot_20240319-192939_Gallery.jpg


Screenshot_20240319-193233_Gallery.jpg


Doesn't have to be an expensive name brand system to work good.

Simple parts and ingenuity.


☆☆☆☆☆
 
George Jets said:
Mopar HEI conversion

With inexpensive new '95 Ford F150 2 post E-coil. Easy to wire.

This e-coil runs straight 12 volts, no ballast resistor, runs cool, puts out 60,000 volts.

Quicker starts, plugs burn cleaner. Quick throttle response.

These are from my experience on my 360 engine run stand, comparing points distributor, mopar electronic with brain box, and mopar HEI conversion with E-Coil.

Mopar HEI conversion with E-Coil is my favorite. The E-Coil is what works the magic, the HEI just triggers it.

View attachment 1716223994

View attachment 1716223996

Doesn't have to be an expensive name brand system to work good.

Simple parts and ingenuity.


☆☆☆☆☆
Click to expand...
That's a good price for the coil. The one I have was on closeout from Summit. I got the HEI module and the coil there. The HEI module is "allegedly" a high performance module, so not limited to in RPM's. Everything is mounted and wired up, at least as far as the engine is concerned. I haven't tackled the wiring harness yet.
 
I hid the 4 pin HEI module and heat sink under the factory coil mount. I bypassed the ballest resistor with a soldered piece of wire in the back. It runs very well. Also, I run 0.045” plug gap. My coil is a MSD blaster coil but the one that can be mounted at any angle. The standard one need to be nose up or it started to leak oil. It took 2 coils leaking before I figured it out. (I believe it ends in 11 part number- 8211 but I may be wrong.) As for purity…. Mopar ecu was a game changer but honestly the GM 4 pin is better. You just need to make sure you run a heat sink and die electric grease between the two- it helps dissipate the heat.
Syleng1
 
There is alot of wiring diagrams on the web and videos on You Tube. I'm rounding up the pieces to keep in the car in case the MSD quits.
 
Syleng1 said:
I hid the 4 pin HEI module and heat sink under the factory coil mount. I bypassed the ballest resistor with a soldered piece of wire in the back. It runs very well. Also, I run 0.045” plug gap. My coil is a MSD blaster coil but the one that can be mounted at any angle. The standard one need to be nose up or it started to leak oil. It took 2 coils leaking before I figured it out. (I believe it ends in 11 part number- 8211 but I may be wrong.) As for purity…. Mopar ecu was a game changer but honestly the GM 4 pin is better. You just need to make sure you run a heat sink and die electric grease between the two- it helps dissipate the heat.
Syleng1
Click to expand...
Thanks. I put plenty of dielectric grease between the module and the heat sink.
So, did you leave the ballast resistor in place with a piece of wire inside? I've seen others do that.
 
I can show an even better HEI setup.
This is the parts needed to put together an 8 pin weatherpac system.
The 8 pin module and matching coil are both moisture sealed, and have all the same benefits of the four pin, plus.
No exposed blade type connectors, 60k output easily capable of a 50 thou gap and a built into the module timing retard function for boost or nitrous.
Also the 8 pin module will still fire even if your voltage is so low the motor barely turns.
Even leaving the key on for extended time doesn’t bother it one bit.

These pics are from when I was building the kits for members here.
When they got the kits, all they had to do was connect it to power, hook it to the stock distributor and mount the module.
Then open the plugs to .050
Then there is also the benefit of being able to get replacement parts if needed in any parts store on any day because they are so common.
The red car is mine, and I have had not one single ignition failure in over 7 years, and I have run it to 7k multiple times without a single rpm issue.
IMG_5331.png


IMG_5333.png


IMG_5335.png
 
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70 Duster,
Post #9. I hope you did NOT use dielectric grease!!!! That is an insulating grease & has poor heat transfer properties, the opposite of what is needed. You need heat transfer compound between the module & the heat sink.

Another thing to be aware of: the Mopar elec dist does NOT need to be grounded to work.

If you elect to use the set up in post #5 [ elegant, simple & all you need], the dist body needs to be grounded; dist body carries the high 5.5 amp coil current. Roughen the mounting feet on the dist clamp to ensure a good connection.
 
Always keep a spare HEI module in the trunk as well. You'll probably need it at some point.
 
if you can work you way through the text in the attached file which is written froma triumph TR4 sports car owners point of view you will get an insight into why HEI is pretty good

actually the attached PDF is too much

try this link instead its an easier read
 

Attachments

  • capacitive_discharge_ignition_vs_magnetic_discharge_ignition..pdf
    3.2 MB · Views: 43
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With all the shoddy electrical parts out there, are there any 4-pin hei modules that are more reliable than others?
 
Yes id buy a mid price one where the manufacturer is happy to put their name on the box
or preferably on the module

wells neidorff borgwarner delco Napa Echlin etc

i would not buy a HIGH POWER version from any of the ignition specialists. there isn't really a lot they can do to make it any better than any other apart from some blue printing to their own specific coil.

i chunter on a bit about HEI here
FBO's black HEI ignition box


this is what i put in the ebay search box when looking for a module in the US

(ac delco,wells,petronix,car quest,napa, niehoff,borg warner,gm,mallory,jegs,moroso) (dm 1906,d1906,acc35361,acc35367,d2000,21040,ech tp45, dr400 ,cbe4,cbe22,10482820,607,555-40600,97857) (module,hei)

But i currently have one off a peugeot or fiat

hella 5da006623051

and a run this 1976 chevy truck coil

1976 CHEVROLET C20 PICKUP 4.8L 292cid L6 Ignition Coil | RockAuto

of look for

Standard Motor Products DR35 Ignition Coil

i have more money in a distributor recurve than i do in module and coil...

I also run a diode to protect my meagre investment

more about that here

New release Distributor for Slant 6

the diode + postage cost more than the coil :)

I added horrible document in my post earlier this is an easier read and you can download it
its by the same Dr Holden but its a bit more real world rather than science paper

CAPACITIVE DISCHARGE IGNITION and MAGNETIC DISCHARGE IGNITION: - PDF Free Download


Dave
 
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I disagree that there is no benefit from a high-er powered HEI module. The stock module passes 5.5 amps, regulated internally by the module. The MSD #83647 module passes 7.5 amps & also has an adj rev limiter. That is a 36% increase in power delivered to the ign coil. I have a friend who runs this module with an MSD #8207 E core coil, Iridium plugs, 0.070" plug gaps, runs over 6000 rpm, runs mid 11s @ 119 mph, 3.31 diff, 4000 lb weight.
 
Cant fault that there are better versions But MSD #83647 takes you out of the realm of general fit it and forget modules

that's a proper custom job....

$20 vs $190

is the extra $170 worth it for a module that in essence can run to a higher rpm. Its gonna depend on your needs i suppose

higher current shorter rise time more flexibility in RPM range provided you have a coil that is perfectly matched to the module so it can control dwell properly at low RPM.

my pot-shot was aimed really at the flame thrower and accel labelled versions of the standard modules. can't find anything to prove that they are not just modules out of the same factories as the rest with nice labels on.
Those labels and a nice box is therefore costing $25-30


local to me

Moroso 97897... MOROSO PERFORMANCE 97857 IGN MODULE (97857) | eBay?

£137 GBP these guys are having a laugh.... there are limits to what you can do to the supporting components around the chip inside

hella

Hella 5DA006623-051 Ignition Module | eBay?

£26

I doubt there is much difference on a motor that stays south of 6500 rpm

Same motorola chip in all apart from maybe the MSD one

Dave
 
mopowers said:
With all the shoddy electrical parts out there, are there any 4-pin hei modules that are more reliable than others?
Click to expand...

Keeping them cool on a good heat sink and out in the open goes a long ways on reliability. And using the proper heat transfer paste.

You think about GM putting the HEI modules inside the distributor cap, where they conduct engine heat from the distributor and no air venting in there. So they tend to be short lived, because they are getting hot.


☆☆☆☆☆
 
Easiest and cheapest is the Ningbo "ready to run" distributor on ebay. I put one on my 1965 Dart 273 ($45) with the e-core coil ($20) (both from seller Steve White Performance). Not avail for slant-six. I also found a spare module ($15 ebay), which I think is used in some Japanese cars. Prices may have increased (despite assurance of "no inflation" from U.S. President a few years ago).

If you already have a Mopar e-distributor, perhaps better is the GM 8-pin module and coil, shown in post 10. I am probably the first to suggest it here (upset SSD since he had only heard of the 4-pin module), but not my idea since found it and much more ignition info on the megasquirt site. One advantage is that some aftermarket EFI kits can command spark advance to the 8-pin module, such as the Holley Commander 950 on my 1965 Newport 383. I pulled off a 1985-95 GM truck at the salvage yard cheap.

Or you can spend more time wiring the GM 4-pin module and have exposed spade connectors, rather than the sealed Metri-pak connectors of the 8-pin module. If you want to spend $$$, there are many aftermarket ignition kits for ~$500 from 'merican companies.
 
Why is the 8 pin module be better than the 4 pin one?
I used shrink tubing on the spade connectors when I installed the module. Maybe not the best weatherproofing, but better than nothing.
 
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