1.00 ff tb

[5.7 hemi]

I'm working on a 69' Dart and have a problem/question(s). I have a QA1 k frame, lower control arms and adjustable strut rods. The upper control arms are from Firm Feel along with their 1.00 torsion bars.

I set the engine in and installed the tb. Set the car back on the ground and the car is sky high! So I take all apart, double check everything and try again. Same problem, and the tb hex tab is sitting on the adjuster nut, bolt is out. So wtf am I doing wrong?

Just for sh1ts and giggles, I put a board across the inner fenders and put 5 50# bags of sand to simulate all the sheet metal, fluids, bumper etc., and it dropped a tad bit.

So anyone have any idea of what's going on? I checked the tb and the are installed correctly, and they have the offset twist to them......just can't figure this one out!!

 

[BigBlockMopar]

Any chance you have the left and right TB exchanged?

Also, just adding weight doesn't always drop the car down enough. You'll have to push the car back and forth a few feet to let the frontwheels and suspension settle.

 

[5.7 hemi]

The tb are on the correct sides, bounced and rolled the car. The problem is there is no adjustment as the lower control arm tab (the piece that the adjuster bolt goes into) is sitting on top of the adjuster nut and if I try to tighten the bolt the car rises.

The tab (that's what I'll call it) should be somewhere in the middle of the range of adjustment so you can raise or lower the car and it's not.

 

[72bluNblu]

Sounds like you clocked the torsion bars incorrectly. I did the exact same thing when I had tubular LCA's.

Normally when you install the LCA's you install them so that they are hanging as far down as they will go. With regular LCA's, that's a little bit past a 45* angle because the LCA hits the K member. With tubular LCA's, they will hang down almost perpendicular to the ground because they're so narrow they don't hit anything. If you install the torsion bars like that, you don't get any adjustment and the cars sits too high.

Slide the torsion bars out, raise the LCA's until they're at about a 45* angle, and reinstall the bars. Basically you're moving the torsion bar socket one flat on the torsion bar hex. The car will sit down fine and you should have plenty of adjustment.

 

[5.7 hemi]

I'll give it a shot, but doubt it will work as I've tried everything at least a dozen times, but it wont hurt to try again.

 

[BigBlockMopar]

Post some pics of the setup if you can.
'Misclocking' tbars is pretty much impossible imo as 1 flat of the hex is 60 degrees offset to the next one.

 

[72bluNblu]

Post some pics of the setup if you can.
'Misclocking' tbars is pretty much impossible imo as 1 flat of the hex is 60 degrees offset to the next one.

It really isn't. With tubular UCA's, there are basically 3 positions you can install the bars. You can install them all the way down, which is one flat past the OE UCA's because of the clearance on the K frame that the tubular LCA's allow. You can also install them at the "normal" spot, and again when the LCA's are basically at ride height for a lowered car. I know, I've done it. With OE LCA's there are really only two spots, the "normal" spot and with the LCA's in the "ride height" location. And with larger bars you sometimes need to install the LCA's in the ride height position, because the rate of the bars doesn't allow any sag when the car is on the suspension. The FFI 1.12" bars on my Challenger are installed in the "normal" spot, but anything much larger than that usually needs to be installed at ride height. The FFI bars on my Duster, which are also 1.12" but have a higher, 300 lb/in rate, are installed in the "normal" location, but my torsion bar adjusting bolts are out to the point that there's basically no additional adjustment to lower the car.

 

[5.7 hemi]

Well, I tried it 3 different times and the result was the same. It is either the tb or the lca are not correct.

 

[72bluNblu]

When you install the LCA:

-unscrew the torsion bar adjusting bolt so that it is adjusted completely "out", so that no threads are showing on the top of the adjusting plate and only the rounded ball end of the bolt is above the plate

-keep the adjusting lever/arm in contact with the adjusting bolt, so the ball end of the bolt is always in the adjusting lever socket and the adjusting arm is resting on the plate

-don't let tubular LCA's hang all the way down perpendicular with the ground. Raise them up to about a 45* angle to the ground. Keep the adjusting lever in contact with the adjusting plate, and slide the torsion bar in. If the torsion bar doesn't line up, rotate the LCA up (not down) and keep the adjusting arm in contact with the adjuster. Rotating the LCA without keeping the adjusting lever in the same place relative to the LCA does not help your cause.

The torsion bar can be installed into the socket in several locations when the flats line up. If you don't keep the adjusting lever in contact with the adjuster, the position of the LCA doesn't matter because it's not lined up with the adjusting lever, which is what controls the position of the torsion bar socket.

I'd be willing to bet that neither the torsion bars or LCA's are wrong. I installed the 1.12" Firm Feel torsion bars in my Challenger with the LCA's clocked incorrectly, so I KNOW it can be done. I also know that it seems like there's no way to fix it, because I bought a set of 2" drop spindles to fix the "problem". I didn't realize I had done it wrong until MUCH LATER, when I had to reinstall a set of stock LCA's on my car. When I did, it was very obvious that the stock LCA's did not have the free rotational range that the tubular arms do, and that I had inadvertently clocked the tubular LCA's wrong because letting the tubular LCA's hang down as far as they will go results in them being in a very different position compared to the stock LCA's. So much so that I found that the 2" drop spindles I had been running were completely unnecessary when the LCA's were clocked correctly.

 

[5.7 hemi]

Alright. I'll give it another shot. I've never had this problem before, but I also used factory stuff and this is my first tubular u/lca set up.

 

[72bluNblu]

Alright. I'll give it another shot. I've never had this problem before, but I also used factory stuff and this is my first tubular u/lca set up.

Good luck!

Keep an eye on that adjusting arm! It's also much easier with everything (spindle, shock, strut rod, etc) disconnected from the LCA, with the LCA pivot nut loose, so the LCA moves freely.

 

[5.7 hemi]

Did it again and same thing......5 inches from the top of the tire to the fender lip. I tried it with the lca all the way up, middle and in between and the result is the same. I check the tb, and with one end on the flat the other end has the hex pointed up or in the middle if that helps.

So I think either Firm Feel dropped the ball in making these or they stamped the ends (l/r) on the wrong side and for that I'll need to swap sides tomorrow. Also called and left a message for Dick@FF, so hopefully we can get this sorted out in the morning.

73bluNblu, I followed what you posted and no joy, thanks for your help!!!

 

[72bluNblu]

Did it again and same thing......5 inches from the top of the tire to the fender lip. I tried it with the lca all the way up, middle and in between and the result is the same. I check the tb, and with one end on the flat the other end has the hex pointed up or in the middle if that helps.

So I think either Firm Feel dropped the ball in making these or they stamped the ends (l/r) on the wrong side and for that I'll need to swap sides tomorrow. Also called and left a message for Dick@FF, so hopefully we can get this sorted out in the morning.

73bluNblu, I followed what you posted and no joy, thanks for your help!!!

If you got the same results with the LCA in multiple positions, you're doing something wrong.

If you inserted the bar into the torsion bar socket even one flat apart, you would not get the same results, even if the bars were somehow clocked wrong when they were made, or even if they're on opposite sides. When you installed the LCA, did you pay attention to see which flats were lining up from the torsion bar to the socket? I'd be willing to bet you installed the LCA with the torsion bar going into the socket in the same position all 3 times. Mark one of the flats on the LCA torsion bar socket, and when you reinstall the LCA make sure that flat lines up with a different flat on the torsion bar.

Sorry I can't be of much more help than that via the internet, I can't see what you're doing. But even if the bars are wrong, you would not get the same result if the torsion bar socket moved from one hex flat to another on the bar. It's possible that without the engine in the car you just aren't loading the bars enough to notice the difference, but if you rotate the torsion bar socket by a flat on the bar you physically can't get the exact same result.

When I changed the clocking of the LCA's on my Challenger, it dropped my car over 2". Granted, that's with a fully loaded car, but I switched from 2" drop spindles to regular spindles, kept the same ride height, and still have adjustment to go lower.

 

[5.7 hemi]

Just got off the phone with Dick@ Firm Feel and he said that the bars are "point to flat", just like any factory tb, and he had me check them. The bars are good. He said with the "rocker do hickey on the lca" sitting on the tb adjuster nut and damn near no weight in/on the car, it is going to sit very high and this is normal. As more parts go back on the car, ie. weight, the car is going to come down and the "rocker" on the lca will come off the adjuster nut and then I'll have adjustability.

He said that they will stand behind the bars, even if it takes 6 months or whatever amount of time to finish the car. So if I still have the problem, he will do what it takes to fix it....that's good by me.