1300 hp mercury comet brake failure crash

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Both of my classics are drum brake cars, you just can`t be stupid with them.
I`ll let the next guy swap em out to discs.
I`ve had several total brake failures, one with a 65 single pot, one with a 2000 dual.
The dual may as well been a single the way it acted. I stomped the parking brake and got stopped out in the center of the cross road. Thank God no one was coming, pucker factor for sure. I was 1 mile from the house and nursed it home.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I admit, I don't check my brake fluid every single time I drive the car. I do check it probably three times a month though. I will say this. If I ever feel anything out of the ordinary, I come back home. Have done it before with the old single reservoir master cylinder. It had a very, very slow leak. I returned home after getting it out of the driveway, because the pedal was "a little" lower than normal. Come to find out, the leak was the master cylinder had a crack in it on the bottom port that had a plug in it. That's when I went ahead and made the switch to the disc brake master cylinder on it now. None of us is perfect, I mean that truly. But I think we can do a better job of trying than these guys did.
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The critical difference is that as soon as you noticed a problem, you addressed it.
Riding the brakes in a car with a sticking throttle is at best suicidal. A 1300hp car in that condition? Smoothbrain move.

In aviation, there's a thing called "getthereitis", where the urge to just "get there" overrides good judgment. This guy had "influenceritis" where he wanted more to be on YouTube than to have a functional car.
 
Phreakish said:
The critical difference is that as soon as you noticed a problem, you addressed it.
Riding the brakes in a car with a sticking throttle is at best suicidal. A 1300hp car in that condition? Smoothbrain move.

In aviation, there's a thing called "getthereitis", where the urge to just "get there" overrides good judgment. This guy had "influenceritis" where he wanted more to be on YouTube than to have a functional car.
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That's why I disagree that the hp doesn't make a difference. I believe it does. What did that engine produce at 2200 if it made a peak of 1300? 350? More? That would be TOUGH to hold back with brakes, generate HUGE amounts of heat in the calipers and boil the fluid. That's where the pedal went. You cannot compress brake fluid vapor. All speculation of course. I'm sure we'll never know.
 
92b said:
I think the fact that the motor has 1300 hp has little to do with the accident. Think about throttle position and power output. The throttle was nowhere near wide open throttle. Listen to the engine when the brakes went out. To me it doesn't sound like a motor that was putting out much power. Likely the throttle is sticking near the closed side of travel rather than the wide open end. Simular to a improperly adjusted idle speed around 2000 rpm. Think about how little power it takes to propel a car at that speed and rpm. The car didn’t appear to be accelerating rapidly. It was more or less just maintaining speed. I would say that the majority of our cars are capable of that kind of power output. The fact that he had zero brakes probably had more to do with the accident than how much power the motor is capable of producing. We all would be in trouble with zero brakes and little time to react. Things happen fast in the heat of the moment and sometimes our brains don't as well as we think they would. We can all pick out some detail of the accident and say it couldn't happen to me because of this or that. What ever we have to do to to convince ourselves that "I could never be that guy".
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If the sticking throttle and brake issue developed during the drive, I'd give them a pass. That's not what happened. They set out knowing the brakes were marginal, the throttle is sticking, and he was already riding the brakes to maintain speed. The riding of the brakes sounds to me like there was enough power to accelerate. Not hard, but some. The car didn't seem to gain much speed once the brakes failed, but it didn't seem to slow at all either and it should have scrubbed a bit off, I would think.

What I can't forgive is the fact that it was a known issue and the workaround is not a reasonable one. They didn't continue to operate in order to get off the road, they continued their trip. It was dumb.

As far as once the brake failure happened, it was too late by then. It's not easy to do it all right, but the point is that it should never have gotten to that point.

We all do dumb things, sure. Stuff can and does break, especially when it's 70 years old. But so knowingly operate a missile with malfunction is just not justifiable.

I'm pretty sure that engine braking would be decent with the key off, at least until the engine rpm came down under idle speed. There's not much difference in coasting with the throttles shut than there is with the key off, I don't think. Maybe I'll try it sometime with my pickup and see what happens ;)
 
RustyRatRod said:
That's why I disagree that the hp doesn't make a difference. I believe it does. What did that engine produce at 2200 if it made a peak of 1300? 350? More? That would be TOUGH to hold back with brakes, generate HUGE amounts of heat in the calipers and boil the fluid. That's where the pedal went. You cannot compress brake fluid vapor. All speculation of course. I'm sure we'll never know.
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I agree. It wasn't the cause, but a contributor for sure.

Also, if you can afford that blower you can damn well afford some spray lube to fix the sticking linkage, LOL.
 
Phreakish said:
I agree. It wasn't the cause, but a contributor for sure.

Also, if you can afford that blower you can damn well afford some spray lube to fix the sticking linkage, LOL.
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....as well as better brakes.
 
RustyRatRod said:
....as well as better brakes.
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Though I tend to agree, even shitty brakes work if they're not glowing just trying to stay under 40mph LOL.

But yes the pictures showing the brakes pre-trip were a flag. Once the passenger smelled brake, it was time to stop. When the driver lied and said "just turned the rotors" (whatever that means) but then later stated he had to ride them... More flags.

Me? I smell brake, and the driver is blipping the throttle to get it to idle - I'm out at that very stoplight. Who knows if it's just sticking at idle, or if it might stick closer to 1/2 or wot? The only thing sticky should be the tires and the back seat..
 
92b said:
I think the fact that the motor has 1300 hp has little to do with the accident. Think about throttle position and power output. The throttle was nowhere near wide open throttle. Listen to the engine when the brakes went out. To me it doesn't sound like a motor that was putting out much power. Likely the throttle is sticking near the closed side of travel rather than the wide open end. Simular to a improperly adjusted idle speed around 2000 rpm. Think about how little power it takes to propel a car at that speed and rpm. The car didn’t appear to be accelerating rapidly. It was more or less just maintaining speed. I would say that the majority of our cars are capable of that kind of power output. The fact that he had zero brakes probably had more to do with the accident than how much power the motor is capable of producing. We all would be in trouble with zero brakes and little time to react. Things happen fast in the heat of the moment and sometimes our brains don't as well as we think they would. We can all pick out some detail of the accident and say it couldn't happen to me because of this or that. What ever we have to do to to convince ourselves that "I could never be that guy".
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Look Sport, You can keep playing this violin all You want, I will NEVER be THAT Guy. This wasn't a Fooking accident, this was gross, irresponsible negligence. You're on drugs, that blown BBC probably makes twice the torque at 2K part-throttle than My Corolla at full throttle peak-torque, & My 'rolla's got 2x the brakes plus some. Those appear to be lightweight drag style brakes, they aren't fit for normal driving, they aren't meant to stop You from speed more than once...they're lucky to be any better than the stock solid-rotor brakes on an Omni...what size rollers on that Comet? I've had accidents that totalled My rides 3 times, 1 black ice, 1 Guy with a convex mirror & a hidden driveway missed Me in the mirror & pulled the trigger in His extended-cab Chevy 4x4, 1 a dumbass kid ran a stop sign in His S-10 & I rolled it for Him. **** happens out of Our control, all of those happened 35-40mph, & there wasn't a way to avoid them. This was 100% avoidable, 100% predictable, 100% preventable, & 100% this Idiot's fault.
 
Phreakish said:
In aviation, there's a thing called "getthereitis", where the urge to just "get there" overrides good judgment. This guy had "influenceritis" where he wanted more to be on YouTube than to have a functional car.
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That's a VERY good way to put it. Thank you!
 
Killer6 said:
Look Sport, You can keep playing this violin all You want, I will NEVER be THAT Guy. This wasn't a Fooking accident, this was gross, irresponsible negligence. You're on drugs, that blown BBC probably makes twice the torque at 2K part-throttle than My Corolla at full throttle peak-torque, & My 'rolla's got 2x the brakes plus some. Those appear to be lightweight drag style brakes, they aren't fit for normal driving, they aren't meant to stop You from speed more than once...they're lucky to be any better than the stock solid-rotor brakes on an Omni...what size rollers on that Comet? I've had accidents that totalled My rides 3 times, 1 black ice, 1 Guy with a convex mirror & a hidden driveway missed Me in the mirror & pulled the trigger in His extended-cab Chevy 4x4, 1 a dumbass kid ran a stop sign in His S-10 & I rolled it for Him. **** happens out of Our control, all of those happened 35-40mph, & there wasn't a way to avoid them. This was 100% avoidable, 100% predictable, 100% preventable, & 100% this Idiot's fault.
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How much horsepower would you estimate it takes to maintain 45 mph on a flat road ?
 
Geez yall, it's over and done with. All the arguing in the frikkin world ain't gonna change chit.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Geez yall, it's over and done with. All the arguing in the frikkin world ain't gonna change chit.
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Any pictures and or part numbers of your conversion to dual master? I need to convert mine. Thank you.
 
Killer6 said:
This was 100% avoidable, 100% predictable, 100% preventable, & 100% this Idiot's fault
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I agree. My guess is the driver of this car never thought he would be "that guy" either.
 
Wow. This guy made a fantastic video that will play well in a civil court. Owner admits the brakes are inadequate and the throttle is sticking and then proceeds to plow into the back of a minivan. All captured on video. Case closed. Fix the car? He'll be lucky to have enough money left to resore a wheelbarrow.

I don't know who the broken teeth guy is. If he passes himself off as a car guru on his videos, then I'd hold him 25% responsible in a lawsuit. I watch a lot of YouTube videos but would never watch **** like this. 1300 HP street cars that have no purpose in life other than to sound tough and do smoky burnouts just don't impress me. Show me the ET slip or lap times.

But this opened my eyes in a positive way. My 64 Valiant has that pretty metal dash, drum brakes and lap belts. The interior is close coupled with not much room to the dash. I don't know if adding the optional padding on the dash would do much, maybe only lose 2 teeth instead of 4? But before it rolled even a single foot under its own power I had converted to a dual MC system. I do have discs ready to go on and that will be a winter project.
I'm not going to be showing this video to my lady friend who rides many miles with me. Interesting that when my son rode with me to Carlisle last year, he made it clear that the metal dash and closeness made him uncomfortable. Guess that means he learned something after totaling 2 Neons in his younger days.
 
One of the first things I put in my 1970 Dart were new lap belts with shoulder straps. It just made my passengers and me feel better.
 
92b said:
Agree, horsepower is irrelevant.
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Not what I stated. The amount to maintain 45mph is irrelevent. The amount of torque being produced by this engine & it's resistance to change is.
 
Has anyone put shoulder belts in am A or B body convertible? Be interested if that could be done
 
92b said:
Any pictures and or part numbers of your conversion to dual master? I need to convert mine. Thank you.
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92b said:
Any pictures and or part numbers of your conversion to dual master? I need to convert mine. Thank you.
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Sure. Start at post #1596 and keep going. I used the master cylinder number for a Duster with manual discs. 1215 is the basic part number and I used the proportioning valve and lines from the same car. The only one mod I had to do was put a different flare nut on the rear line. I just cut the end off slid the new nut on and reflared it. The size flare nut is in the text.
1964 Valiant "Get Runnin & Drivin"
 
Killer6 said:
Not what I stated. The amount to maintain 45mph is irrelevent. The amount of torque being produced by this engine & it's resistance to change is.
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It takes what it ta
Killer6 said:
Not what I stated. The amount to maintain 45mph is irrelevent. The amount of torque being produced by this engine & it's resistance to change is.
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It takes what it takes in torque or HP to maintain a speed with the throttle in a stuck or fixed position on a flat road. If you encounter a hill the speed will decrease because the load is increased and the throttle position stays the same. It doesn't make more torque or hp unless you open the throttle to maintain speed when a hill is encountered. Same would be true for applying the brakes with the throttle in a stuck position. It doesn't matter if it's a slant six producing said horsepower or a motor capable of 1,300 horsepower. The amount of torque or HP the brakes have to overcome is the same. The motor is only producing the torque or hp needed to maintain the speed the stuck throttle is allowing it to achieve.
 
There are alot of people who are crying "sue,sue,sue" as if they think the guy in the smashed minivan isn't being properly compensated. It comes from seeing a nice built car assuming the guy has "money" if it were Uncle Tony in one of his pieces of **** alot of people would be singing a different tune I'm thinking...I think the guy is a fellow car guy, we don't need a half dozen YT videos parroting Uncle Tony about how "stupid " he is. The amount of so called "car people" I've seen bashing this guy on YT is appalling. I wouldn't break bread or drink a beer with any of these sideline accident lawyers.
 
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