16:1 steering box Q

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Rapid Robert

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is this an OE or an aftermarket box? I want to be informed when I get connected with steer & gear. the one tech didn't grasp the needle bearings that I was needing. it does have formula s in junkyard yellow paint on it. thank you for your time. RR
 
Mopar did make two ratio's of manual box's. Don't remember the numbers but the quick ratio was very rare.
 
its definitely a 16:1 I will look & see if there is any mopar insignia on the case. both of the companies firm feel & steer & gear want me to send it in for a rebuilt and they have nothing to say about the needle bearings which is all it really needs & some assy
 
It could be an OE or aftermarket box. Ma Mopar made manual steering boxes in both 24:1 (standard) and 16:1 (fast ratio).

But, both 24:1 and 16:1 manual steering boxes have been reproduced as well.

The worm gears have also been available in 24:1, 20:1, and 16:1 from Mopar at various points in time, so it could also have been a 24:1 retrofitted with a 16:1 worm.

Is the box disassembled? As in, are you sure it has bearings instead of bushings installed?
 
what happened is I was adjusting the worm gear on the side & I went to far & it locked up so I took the top off & lost some of the needle bearings. finally I got a tech from steer & gear who is going to sell me some caged needle bearings. On prior calls they and firm feel wanted me to send it in for a full rebuild which was not going to happen unless I had no recourse so I was very happy when the tech called an hour ago. thanks guys for the help/info. RR
 
It could be an OE or aftermarket box. Ma Mopar made manual steering boxes in both 24:1 (standard) and 16:1 (fast ratio).

But, both 24:1 and 16:1 manual steering boxes have been reproduced as well.

The worm gears have also been available in 24:1, 20:1, and 16:1 from Mopar at various points in time, so it could also have been a 24:1 retrofitted with a 16:1 worm.

Is the box disassembled? As in, are you sure it has bearings instead of bushings installed?
sory thread hijack, do you run the 24 or the 16 i am trying to figure out what ratio to go. But no idea what the manual is like as mine was power steer and never drove it after importing lol
 
sory thread hijack, do you run the 24 or the 16 i am trying to figure out what ratio to go. But no idea what the manual is like as mine was power steer and never drove it after importing lol

I run the 16:1. At parking lot speeds it's pretty heavy, you definitely want to have a plan when you park so you're not trying to turn the wheels when you're stationary or creeping along. Above 20 mph or so it's not an issue and anything 40mph and above it's awesome. But I prefer to have heavier steering, I was never a fan of the over boosted, no-feel Mopar power steering. I don't have a ton of miles using a 24:1 box, but the 5 1/2 turns lock to lock makes it feel like you're constantly spinning the wheel to do anyway. The 16:1 is 3 1/2 turns lock to lock, so while it is definitely heavier you're not typically turning the wheel all that far either
 
I run the 16:1. At parking lot speeds it's pretty heavy, you definitely want to have a plan when you park so you're not trying to turn the wheels when you're stationary or creeping along. Above 20 mph or so it's not an issue and anything 40mph and above it's awesome. But I prefer to have heavier steering, I was never a fan of the over boosted, no-feel Mopar power steering. I don't have a ton of miles using a 24:1 box, but the 5 1/2 turns lock to lock makes it feel like you're constantly spinning the wheel to do anyway. The 16:1 is 3 1/2 turns lock to lock, so while it is definitely heavier you're not typically turning the wheel all that far either
Guessing you are running wide front rubber as well where as ill have front runners that will lighten it up
 
Guessing you are running wide front rubber as well where as ill have front runners that will lighten it up

Yeah I’m running 275/35/18’s up front and have +6.5° caster. So skinnier tires and less caster will absolutely make the low speed turning less effort than what I’ve got
 
this is on the stock car & 24:1 is too much. I managed to get the top cover adj screw on but I cannot get the worm gear on the side to screw in all the way. I will get back on it. no problem at all on a hijack, we're here to learn & the knowledge/wisdom the guys on here have is off the charts! RR
 
Torrington B-1812 (do not get the metric japanese bearing that uses the same number, ie buy in USA not Japan or Europe) is the drawn cup needle roller used in a standard needle bearing box

one in the top cover
one at the top of the sector tunnel
one at the bottom of the sector tunnel
You can if you wish put a B-1816 at the bottom of the sector tunnel Its a longer needle bearing.
you probably could at the top also, i've just never tried it.. makes the box more Heavy duty

they are about $12 - $16 each

you can, if you are not careful, knock all of the needles out and loose them...

to replace one in a top cover
unwind the top cover off the adjuster stud
get a small 1/8 inch socket extension pass it through the adjuster hole so that the end of it that usually goes onto the ratchet bares on the end of the needle roller bearing cup
mount cover in vice between 2 pieces of card or ally or balance on top of open jaws with space fo bearing to come out. and slowly tap tap tap around the rim of the bearing. it will, after some sweat on the brow come out. Other option is to put grub screw in adjuster hole fill the bearing with grease and use a wooden mallet to force bearing out by hydraulic action, using the sector as your perfectly fitting punch. i.e the blind hole method you might use to remove crank shaft spigot bushing

whack in you new one with a block of wood and the cover sitting on a sand bag or soft wood bench. never tired it but you could draw it in using the sector shaft and the adjuster bolt... i just use the caveman technique.

The bearings for the worm are ball bearings in cone shaped cages

Chrysler part 2072060 or 2127097

Oh look here
NOS Mopar 1960-1963 Valiant ,Lancer steering gear worm thrust bearing | eBay

if the cages are good you can of course just buy new balls. these appear to be the same as saginaw bearings... i.e ebay full of them for other brands

i have never had to change the cup. just the cone bearings. If the cage is all smashed up, it will probably be the top one, and the steering box was potentially used on the street in a car with a UJ rather than the standard slip joint/pot coupler/Rag joint steering shaft. Or the car it came from was a wheel stander at the track, or made an unscheduled visit to the curb at some point. for the bottom one to be smashed the big hex ring would need to come undone and the adjuster plug/steering box head come undone a long way.

you would expect the formula S box to be 24:1 or (few) 16:1 and a needle roller box due to its v8 engine. The bushed boxes i believe were used on slant 6 cars.
most seemed to go for power box instead, fancy GT type car, fancy steering

Dave
 
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Wow..!! Dave999 great info..!! 72blu Is right on with the description ! Yes I have had both 24:1 and 16:1 in an a body. I just like the 24:1 for all around use. Never tried a 20:1 but it sounds like a perfect balance. Swingn’
 
Wow..!! Dave999 great info..!! 72blu Is right on with the description ! Yes I have had both 24:1 and 16:1 in an a body. I just like the 24:1 for all around use. Never tried a 20:1 but it sounds like a perfect balance. Swingn’
20:1 Standard in Australia, NZ, South Africa for all manual steering A body cars from slant to 360 although most 360 cars, were high end, and you would have had to insist on manual over power box. most going road and track racing went for manual 20:1 or 16:1 if they could find one. 16:1 was part of the "track pack" options (race cars and maybe police if they asked for it)
 
where I am at right now is I have the needle bearings out (& lost half of em). I did get the top cover on temporarily. I cannot get the side piece to screw in all the way (lack about 1/4" of fine thread). Firm Feel is sending me a roller bearing to replace the needles but not sure if I can or need to get the cup that the needles were in out. I'm thinking that I am in over my head! Dave excellent info
 
2 choices
swap the needles over.
or take out the orginal cup and replace with the complete new assembly

Id personally do the latter.
As i say above you can tap it out through the adjuster hole using a small socket extension, thin enough for the hole but with the flared end that usually goes on the ratchet so it can press on the rim of the cub. Tap Tap tap


the "side piece" i guess this is the aluminium head set of the steering box, the bit around the input shaft.

in which case it doesn't screw in all the way.... it screws in far enough to pre-load the bearings leaving a good few fine threads standing proud of the case. Then you lock it in position with the big hex shaped ring.

if you have pulled the input out slightly the bearing at the bottom may no longer be seated

Dave
 
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here you go, you can do this.....
check worm is properly seated
put case adjuster on and wind it down tight-ish turning the worm should be a little bit stiff and put the hex ring on to lock it.

then do you bearing in the case top, button it up and adjust the sector mesh until its really quite hard to turn the input by hand....

right of picture find WORM
see the bearings top and bottom of it
they need to fit into their cups and you wind on the adjuster, top right, and lock it with the big HEX nut. once the worm twists nice and smooth with zero end play, all good


this looks complicated but actually comes apart in a about 4 parts.

ballnut worm and screw 1 part (complicated collection of parts but all bolted together)
sector "SHAFT" 1 part (washer and shim and adjuster bolt)
case top 1 part (needles may fall out of cup in cover)
adjuster and big hex nut 1 part (seal is pressed in and bearing sits round the top of the worm shaft)

all the rest is pressed into the case or assembled

expoloded steering.JPG
 
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OK I am going to hang loose for a few days till the bearing gets here. Dave I will keep you posted & thank you very much for the comprehensive description (I'm gonna need it!). RR
 
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