1964 Plymouth Valiant Build/Restoration Thread

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kiyoshi

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Hello everyone,

Relatively new member here but i wanted to go ahead and at least start this so I have something to document all the progress along the way, and something to look back at and see just how far it comes!

I picked up this 1964 plymouth valiant in February and it died on me on the way home, lol. Come to find out the neutral safety switch wire (brown) was just dangling and sometimes grounding on the transmission itself. -_- Got it towed home and started from there.

A few things I wanted to accomplish on this car was to get it to daily driving condition, and still be able to romp on it, while preserving as much of what is still original as possible. Some of the focuses would be:

-Looking over engine and all accessories
-Checking transmission as it didn't feel like it was shifting properly (more on that later)
-Go over all cooling to make sure I never have to worry about temp issues
-Slowly rebuild suspension/ steering parts so I can have the most road feel as possible (currently feels like a boat)
-Inspect wiring to ensure no issues with super old wires/ ammeter, etc.

Yeah basically a once over of everything to make sure it's road worthy. I'd love to be able to take this on long trips without hesitation. I'll post some photos and continue in the next post
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Ok so it died on the way home due to the neutral safety switch wire not having anywhere to plug in to. I got it home, parked it, and looked in to the issues I wanted to address immediately:

-Door locks had been so demolished that they were unusable from the outside. Looked in to information, decided on the slightly smaller diameter locks so I could get a full, new replacement set, all one key, and have no worries anymore. The original larger diameter locks were IMPOSSIBLE to get new and still cost an arm and a leg used. I went ahead and installed the driver's side, with very minimal modification. I used jewler's files to file out the notches required for the new locks. I don't have pics on this right now however luckily I only did the driver's, so I'll document the passenger and trunk. After installation, the driver lock worked flawlessly.

-Neutral safety switch wire issue. After pulling the wire up through the transmission tunnel and in to the engine bay, it was clear that it had just been stripped at the end and wrapped/ bolted through down to something in the tunnel, and not the switch. I cleaned up the wire, shortened it, and grounded it to the firewall ground. I'm still having to look in to options for a single pin neutral safety switch, as again I think everything on my car is the older/earlier version of everything. That being mine is a one pin, rare and expensive, while everything else is a 3 pin, and fairly common. More on this in a bit, but please let me know if this is an issue.

-Transmission leaks. Boy this was it's own issue and I will be making a specific post just for that issue. Basically the transmission was leaking from several places, several issues, but I think I saved it and we'll hope for the best.

-Cracked taillights/ reverse/ running. The plastics are broken and cracked a bit and I want to go ahead and get new one's so no moisture comes in the trunk. I'm local to classic industries but over $300 for a set is kinda daunting and I'd rather save for some other things first.

-Ammeter. Just... worried. I know, if it's working fine nothing to worry about and also the other extreme of omg you still have it your car will explode.... I'm scared... I'm working on this.

-Carb rebuild. Went ahead and ordered a carb rebuild kit and did my best to be very precise. I think I have ADHD while also being a bit on the spectrum so I over analyze and get super picky about organization but also get distracted easily.. kinda hard to do builds, or at least remember to take photos lol. Rebuilt the carb though, tore one of the blue gaskets... was really not ok with this. Seems to still seal just fine but it's so cheap I might just replace.

Ok that's a bit of pre worry, I'll get on to what I've gotten done in the next post.
 
Sounds like you're already not afraid to modify and that's good. You have a great foundation.
 
Guys like to gripe about a (pick any color) car with a black engine bay. You have a black car with a white engine bay. It's not GM, but I wonder if there is some obscure make from eastern Europe or Asia that did that.
 
Parts I can remember ordering:



Motor
-Lokkar throttle cable kit for whatever carb I have (can't remember right now while typing)
-Carb rebuild kit from manufacturer (worried because I picked this up from my local Oriellys and it looked like it had been sitting there for decades. Was still sealed though)
-Amsoil vrod oil (have to check weight)



Fuel
-Fuel Pump because I broke mine trying to take off what I thought was a fitting but was just the hex portion of the welded on fitting in the pump itself -_-
-Replace the hoses because who knows how old they are
-Had major issue with leaks from fuel pump input all the way to the carbs, really scared on this. Probably going to just take it to a shop for a once over to ensure it's all ok and road worthy.



Transmission
-New filter
-Reusable Genuine Mopar Gasket (HOLY ALSKDJLASD this took forever to get right. If you have a 904, don't waste your time. Just get it. And be done with it.)
-Amsoil atf for dex/merc/ i can't remember I just know I looked everything up a bunch over and over cuz I have no life. That's the one for the transmission)
-Increased capacity oil pan through Summit with filter extension and new gaskets, bolts, etc
-Lokkar kickdown cable kit for 904 (NEVER HAD ONE INSTALLED WHILE I TOOK IT HOME/ TEST DROVE ETC AH HA HA ...... -_-)
-Braided Steel Dipstick Kit because my old one had no mounting point, wasn't reading right, and was coming apart at the seams. Made a custom bracket for this.
-Speedometer Cable because I burned through mine by it touching on the exhaust. The previous owner really just didn't do anything correctly or all the way on this car.



Cooling
-RedLine Water Wetter (haven't filled yet)
-A torn open finger from being a fudging idiot
-A low temp thermostat ( I believe I was able to get a 160, took forever, more on it later, and again HA HA DIDN'T HAVE ONE INSTALLED ORIGINALLY)
-Bypass (would love to make sure this is ok as routed. My heater core broke and leaked inside so I removed it for now. Is this ok as routed?)
-Replacement gauge because I broke mine thinking it came apart but it didn't -_-
-Custom radiator overflow tank setup since it didn't have one originally. Still know that the radiator is too small for motor and would love input on some options. I have a few in mind regarding northern, engineered cooling products (speedcooling), and in last for consideration champion.



Wiring
-Full Mil-Spec Wiring Harness Rebuild. I'm building a new wiring harness and actually feel I might have messed something up. Again would love some input when I get to that post.




Probably forgetting a bit but let's get on to some of the build and photos. I'll edit and update this if I remember anything
 
Guys like to gripe about a (pick any color) car with a black engine bay. You have a black car with a white engine bay. It's not GM, but I wonder if there is some obscure make from eastern Europe or Asia that did that.

Lol i never thought about that. I'm eh on the paint overall, and eh on the removal/ delete of the trim. Deciding on what I want to do about that. I love the original color although I can't remember if it's the lighter or darker sand color off the top of my head. I vin hunted it down for a while and it made me smile a little bit seeing it roll of the assembly line in Los Angeles, relatively not too far from where I live :)

Sounds like you're already not afraid to modify and that's good. You have a great foundation.

happy to modify but hopefully only for reliability/ necessities sake :)
 
Check Into an aluminum 66ish Mustang radiator. See if the spuds are on the correct side (no idea what year motor you have) and you can get them pretty cheap used as there are about 500x more 66 mustangs on road than 64 Valiants! The 3 pin neutral safety switches can be adapted. Just use the center pin, the outboard pins are for reverse lighting but yours could still be in your console. There are 2 lengths of 3 pin switches, find the one that is the same thread distance as the single pin or whatever your using.
 
Guys like to gripe about a (pick any color) car with a black engine bay. You have a black car with a white engine bay. It's not GM, but I wonder if there is some obscure make from eastern Europe or Asia that did that.
lots of european/english race cars have white engine bays, it's easier to find/spot leaks. also painting up behind the dash white helps with any work/fault finding later as it's brighter when you're on your back under there looking at stuff :thumbsup:
neil.
 
Welcome! Nice little project you got there. :) Check out the link below, to a member here who sells reproduction lenses. I bought a set of lenses for a 65 Barracuda. Seller tells you right up front that it takes a while to get them here, because they come out of Mexico. Mine aren't here yet, but other members have purchased them and are happy with them. Good luck with your build!

[FOR SALE] - Reproduction Tail Light Lenses 1964 Valiant | For A Bodies Only Mopar Forum
 
Nice car!
I have a 64 also, 200 convertible. I'd like to see an interior picture. I just replaced my interior with 64 Signet buckets and it looks like yours is an interesting color combo.

Looks like your exterior has been repainted but they left the original color in the engine compt. Are you an MSD dealer?
What engine is it? If it doesn't overheat then you don't need to change the radiator.
You cen bypass the leaking heater core by looping a short heater hose between the 2 engine heater hose nipples.

You listed your concerns/plans but absolutely nothing about brakes!
Since it's a driver, you should concentrate on replacing that single pot master cylinder with a 67 or newer dual MC. One leak anywhere in that system and you will have ZERO brakes.
One crash and you'll have a longer list for sure.
 
lots of european/english race cars have white engine bays, it's easier to find/spot leaks. also painting up behind the dash white helps with any work/fault finding later as it's brighter when you're on your back under there looking at stuff :thumbsup:
neil.

this is actually really smart and never put two and two together to think about it like that! especially for lighting things up under the dash. Already learning new stuff!


Welcome! Nice little project you got there. :) Check out the link below, to a member here who sells reproduction lenses. I bought a set of lenses for a 65 Barracuda. Seller tells you right up front that it takes a while to get them here, because they come out of Mexico. Mine aren't here yet, but other members have purchased them and are happy with them. Good luck with your build!

[FOR SALE] - Reproduction Tail Light Lenses 1964 Valiant | For A Bodies Only Mopar Forum

oo hecc thank you I'll definitely look in to those. MUCH better pricing
Nice car!
I have a 64 also, 200 convertible. I'd like to see an interior picture. I just replaced my interior with 64 Signet buckets and it looks like yours is an interesting color combo.

Looks like your exterior has been repainted but they left the original color in the engine compt. Are you an MSD dealer?
What engine is it? If it doesn't overheat then you don't need to change the radiator.
You cen bypass the leaking heater core by looping a short heater hose between the 2 engine heater hose nipples.

You listed your concerns/plans but absolutely nothing about brakes!
Since it's a driver, you should concentrate on replacing that single pot master cylinder with a 67 or newer dual MC. One leak anywhere in that system and you will have ZERO brakes.
One crash and you'll have a longer list for sure.

yeah... like I said, I'm a bit scatter brained. That has already been secured and NEEDS to be replaced for some specific reasons. I'll add that in the next big "what I have planned" post lol. Already have a dual master that I'm HOPING fits with the headers, and will need to route custom lines which I've been testing some bends/ designs to see how I'm going to loop/ route them.

I'll get some photos later on of the interior, and overheating was an issue at around 210 which I'm not at all happy with. It wasn't constant, but I don't want to be anywhere near that range, and already looking in to what people are saying regarding swapping the smaller v8 abodys for larger small blocks, a larger radiator would be a good idea.

Not an msd dealer and not sure why those were on the car since there aren't any msd parts from what I can find lol. Already removed. The original color can be seen in the door jams which again I'll get pictures of more today
 
New video going over some of the basic stuff is up on my gaming channel. I guess I'll be starting a build thread playlist over there as well. Would really like to look in to getting some better filming equipment/ a better setup so I can get a little better production quality out of them. Plus hopefully I won't be shaking yall all around then

 
Okie dokie, first bit of trouble I'm running in to is with wiring and had some questions but first hope it's ok to list where the parts were sourced, if this is considered promoting please let me know and I'll gladly remove all reference sites

----------------------Bit of information on the wiring harness----------------------

-All wiring is milspec M22759/16 which has a slightly thicker wall shielding than the M22759-32 and has been purchased from prowireusa

-All wire shielding is TechFlex Insultherm for protection up to 1200F and from what I can tell, really good flame resistance. Videos of it being held straight to torch with no damage

-All tape is Tessa Tape. I decided on this over any other types of electrical tape and it is listed as withstanding up to 350F with no issues of residue etc. Apparently also the type of tape used by current European manufacturers (BMW, Mercedes, etc).

-I was trying to figure out what the black squishy boxes are around the ends of some of the connections on the factory harness and best I can tell, it's just insulation from the elements. I purchased Permatex Liquid Electrical Tape. A max temp range listed at 400F and 1117 volt/mil. I'm hoping this was right... Please let me know if you think there will be any issues here.

-3m high temp ring terminals used where it was possible



from looking in the engine bay, starting on the most left front side:
----------------------MAIN HARNESS----------------------​
10 gauge black - alternator ring
16 gauge green - alternator packard 56 1 pin
16 gauge purple - coolant temp sensor
12 gauge blue - coil wire to resistor
12-12 gauge blue / brown - double resistor connector top
14-16 gauge blue / blue - double resistor connector bottom
** gauge blue - ignition relay top
16 gauge green - ignition relay bottom

The starter harness of only two wires used to loop from the starter relay all the way around the front of the block and then back down towards the firewall. I thought this was ridiculous and an unnecessary path. I shortened it to go directly from the starter relay to the starter. Additionally, the wires that were originally there were already replaced with something not stock. Best I could measure, the black wire (OEM red and since chanced to red) was a 10 gauge wire, and the brown THAT WAS THERE ORIGINALLY was falling between a 10 and 12. 12 was a little bit too tight and it fell easily out of the 10 gauge in my wire gauge measuring tool, and the black 10 was definitely a 10 gauge without doubt.

Because of this, I did a little digging in the forums. Again, best I could find, people are saying you should be running AT LEAST a 10 gauge red wire from the starter, and at LEAST a 12 gauge wire for the smaller diameter brown wire. There are some saying they step up to a 8 gauge red and 10 gauge brown. PLEASE let me know your thoughts.

Additionally I think I'm keeping the ammeter for now, and if I am, this small harness is NOT where I would want to put a larger fuse correct? I would want that between the small 10gauge red wire that connects from the starter relay lower ring terminal to the firewall connector? I ask about this routing specifically as it is what Painless is listing in their Mopar 21circuit custom harness installation instructions. Again just wanting to confirm.

----------------------CURRENT NEW STARTER HARNESS----------------------​
-10 gauge red - starter wiring to lower relay ring terminal
-12 gauge brown - smaller starter post to starter relay left side spade terminal


-----------------CURRENT NEW SECONDARY HARNESS-----------------​
I was reading the Painless harness instructions and some others that had rewired and were saying to step up the size of the yellow wire from the starter relay to the firewall connector? Is this safe to step up even though the connecting side that continues behind the dash is not the same size? It is a stock OEM size of 16 gauge and I upped it to 12 gauge for that small run. Again let me know. Also also, I need to remake the red/purple, but would this be where I am putting a larger amp fuse?
-12 gauge yellow - starter relay to firewall connector
-12 gauge purple - starter relay to horn bottom
-12 gauge red - starter relay to firewall
-16 gauge black - firewall connector to horn relay top

----------------------OK SO NOW MY MAIN WORRY BEFORE I CONTINUE----------------------

I'm seeing people install a fuse for the ammeter (/issue) and I was looking in to what amp fuse to get correct? Again pairing information regarding those that were either running a 10 gauge or upped 8 gauge red wire. I want to say I was seeing information and electric wire gauge charts that people were listing and were saying that if you're running a 10 gauge wire, to run anywhere between a 50-60 amp fuse between the red wire lower ring connector at the starter relay to firewall connector, also listing that if you run a larger 8 gauge wire that you can bump that up to something the likes of a 70-80 amp fuse.

MY WORRY IS even though the wiring I purchased I believed to be a far superior quality than that of a standard gxl automotive wire, I was looking in to the AMPERAGE ratings and was getting worried. Everything I can find lists it as around 30-32 amp current rating based on continuous duty for wires in bundles, harnesses, or conduit at sea level. Some lists I'm seeing is listing this at a max of 23 feet... is this something I should be worried about?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I look forward to any tips, pointers, or even anybody I should message directly. I'll keep looking in to the electrical sections of the forums in the mean time but please let me know your thoughts on 4 things:

1. The location of where the fuse should go for the ammeter
2. What amp rating fuse should I use
3. Is the 10 gauge red wiring I'm using for the starter harness as well as the small red from starter relay to firewall harness connector going to be ok you think? Any information you can back it up with?
4. Just in general, do these wiring sizes look right? I've done DAYS worth of research and constantly keep checking and exploring new places of information, I'm just again a bit on the spectrum which in turn makes me definitely overthink and over worry but at the same time, I know I get distracted and kinda have to find this happy medium of telling myself it's ok but also telling myself to pay the heck attention.

I think I upgraded the size of the blue coil wire but possibly not I'll have to double check, the yellow wire listed, and I believe that is it. That and sized the brown starter wire to 12 instead of whatever weird maybe 11 gauge possibly not good automotive wire that it was.

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Also do you think I should go heavier on the liquid electrical tape over the exposed ring connectors? I think whatever the standard testing measurement (have to look up the abbreviation) is recommending around I think 6.7 mil thickness? That is THICK and around the size of some of the old black square insulation boxes around the old ring connectors on the old harness. And do you think the tessa tape will be ok on the starter harness around the headers?

I'll try to get some better photos for reference on spacing later tonight/ tomorrow and yes some of the shielding on the wiring harness still needs to have the final tape down done around some of the exposed ends, I'm just leaving some of them loose for movement while I still finish up the harness

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I don't think I've ever seen better quality wiring work! Proper crimps, heat-shrink tubing, jacketing... If you ever want to earn extra cash, I bet lots of folks would pay for that level of craftsmanship (and selection of materials). Awesome work!
 
I don't think I've ever seen better quality wiring work! Proper crimps, heat-shrink tubing, jacketing... If you ever want to earn extra cash, I bet lots of folks would pay for that level of craftsmanship (and selection of materials). Awesome work!
YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT THIS MESSAGE MEANS TO ME

seriously... thank you. That put a huge smile on my face ^.^
 
any thoughts or opinions on the wiring questions/ issues before I just go ahead and finish it up? I figure I can always swap out the problem areas later but want to make sure no fires first.

Using mostly all the same wiring gauge save for what was mentioned has me thinking I'll probably be ok?

Just wanted to get some insight hopefully

-kiyoshi
 
Will have a more in depth update tonight. Life has been crazy, in a good way, but until then.... :)

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