1964 "Pony Car Shoot-Out" ~ Barracuda vs. Mustang

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69 Cuda 440

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The Pony Car Shoot-Out To End All 'Shoot-Outs"

Both cars introduced in April 1964

1964 - Plymouth Barracuda ~ 273/180 HP
vs.
1964 - Ford Mustang 'Hardtop Coupe' ~260/164 HP

The '2-Barrel' Shoot Out.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

............................Barracuda...........................Mustang...............

Shipping Weight.......#2930 lbs...........................#2768 lbs.

Weight to Horsepower. {16.28}.......................... {16.88}

Cubic Inches.............. 273................................... 260
Bore......................... 3.63"................................. 3.80"
Stroke...................... 3.31"................................. 2.87"

Horsepower.............. 180 @ 4200 RPM's............... 164 @ 4400 RPM's
Torque..................... 260 @ 1600 RPM's............... 258 @ 2200 RPM's

Compression Ratio...... 8.80-1................................. 8.90-1
Type........................ Flat-Top w/Notches.............. Dish

Cylinder Head CC.s..... 59.2................................... 53.0

Intake Valve.............. 1.78"................................. 1.677"
Exhaust Valve............ 1.50"................................. 1.457"

Camshaft.................. Mechanical.......................... Hydraulic

Lift.......................... .395"/.405"......................... .368"/.381"
Duration................... 240*/240*.......................... 266*/256*
Overlap.................... 16*..................................... 30*

Valve Spring 'Open'..... #83 lbs. ........................... #74 lbs.
Valve Spring 'Closed'.. #177 lbs. ...........................#170 lbs.

Carburetor................ Carter BBD..........................Ford Autolite #2100 Series
CFM Rating............... 285 CFM............................ 245 CFM
Primary.................... 1.437"............................... 1.437"
 

69 Cuda 440 said:
The Pony Car Shoot-Out To End All 'Shoot-Outs"

Both cars introduced in April 1964

1964 - Plymouth Barracuda ~ 273/180 HP
vs.
1964 - Ford Mustang 'Hardtop Coupe' ~260/164 HP

The '2-Barrel' Shoot Out.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

............................Barracuda...........................Mustang...............

Shipping Weight.......#2930 lbs...........................#2768 lbs.

Weight to Horsepower. {16.28}.......................... {16.88}

Cubic Inches.............. 273................................... 260
Bore......................... 3.63"................................. 3.80"
Stroke...................... 3.31"................................. 2.87"

Horsepower.............. 180 @ 4200 RPM's............... 164 @ 4400 RPM's
Torque..................... 260 @ 1600 RPM's............... 258 @ 2200 RPM's

Compression Ratio...... 8.80-1................................. 8.90-1
Type........................ Flat-Top w/Notches.............. Dish

Cylinder Head CC.s..... 59.2................................... 53.0

Intake Valve.............. 1.78"................................. 1.677"
Exhaust Valve............ 1.50"................................. 1.457"

Camshaft.................. Mechanical.......................... Hydraulic
Lift.......................... .400"/.411"......................... .380"/.380"
Click to expand...

The first Mustangs were available with a 260/164 HP 2-Barrel and Hardtop Coupe style only.
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
The Pony Car Shoot-Out To End All 'Shoot-Outs"

Both cars introduced in April 1964

1964 - Plymouth Barracuda ~ 273/180 HP
vs.
1964 - Ford Mustang 'Hardtop Coupe' ~260/164 HP

The '2-Barrel' Shoot Out.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

............................Barracuda...........................Mustang...............

Shipping Weight.......#2930 lbs...........................#2768 lbs.

Weight to Horsepower. {16.28}.......................... {16.88}

Cubic Inches.............. 273................................... 260
Bore......................... 3.63"................................. 3.80"
Stroke...................... 3.31"................................. 2.87"

Horsepower.............. 180 @ 4200 RPM's............... 164 @ 4400 RPM's
Torque..................... 260 @ 1600 RPM's............... 258 @ 2200 RPM's

Compression Ratio...... 8.80-1................................. 8.90-1
Type........................ Flat-Top w/Notches.............. Dish

Cylinder Head CC.s..... 59.2................................... 53.0

Intake Valve.............. 1.78"................................. 1.677"
Exhaust Valve............ 1.50"................................. 1.457"

Camshaft.................. Mechanical.......................... Hydraulic

Lift.......................... .395"/.405"......................... .380"/.380"
Duration................... 240*/240*.......................... 252*/252*
Overlap.................... 16*..................................... 36*

Valve Spring 'Open'..... #83 lbs. ........................... #74 lbs.
Valve Spring 'Closed'.. #177 lbs. ...........................#170 lbs.

Carburetor................ Carter BBD..........................Ford Autolite #2100 Series
CFM Rating............... 285 CFM............................ 245 CFM
Primary.................... 1.437"............................... 1.437"
Click to expand...

Advertised Performance Results;

Barracuda {4-Speed}.............. 17.20 @ 81 MPH

Mustang {4-Speed}................ 17.60 @ 78 MPH
 
R/T

The 273 Commando 'High Performance' was not available in the 1964 Models.

That package was introduced in November 1964 for the '1965 Models'.
 
M-K,

In 1964, the Mustang was also offered with a 289/210 HP 'High-Performance'.

* 9.00-1 Compression-Ratio
* Cylinder Head CC {52.60"}
* Valves = {1.788" Intake ~ 1.457" Exhaust}
* Ford Autolite #4100 Series ~ 4-Barrel ~ 480 CFM ~ {1 7/16" x 1 7/16"}
* Camshaft 'Hydraulic' > .369"/.381" Lift ~ 266*/256* Duration ~ 30* Overlap
* Dual-Exhaust

Performance......... 16.60 @ 83 MPH

Hate to admit it, but they could outrun the 273/180 HP 2-Barrel ~ Barracuda in 1964.
 
The Fox body platform as made up for any butt kickin any of the former body Mustangs got. That's perhaps the best pony car platform that's ever been. It's undeniable.
 
Look at the torque curve of the 273 to the 260, mopar would dig nice and early, and the Mustang would play catch up. Hi-po to the 2bbl is no contest. I think the K-code 289 would walk the Commando 273 also.
 
1964 Mustang 'Hardtop Coupe'

Had a {-170 lb.} weight advantage over the #2930 lb. 1964 Barracuda.

That made a big difference when the 'first' 289/210 HP 'High Performance' was matched up against the Barracuda 273/180 HP '2-Barrel'.

289/210 HP 'D-Code'....................................273/180 HP
210 HP @ 4400 RPM's..................................210 HP @ 4200 RPM's
300 Ft/Lbs. of Torque @ 3000 RPM's..............260 Ft/Lbs. @ 1600 RPM's


The Drag Race's between those two was usually funny................

Kind of like a '3-Part Race'.
 
RustyRatRod said:
The Fox body platform as made up for any butt kickin any of the former body Mustangs got.
Click to expand...

69 Cuda 440 said:
1964 Production Numbers..........

Barracuda............... 23,433

Mustang................. 121,538
Click to expand...
I would question whether there was any butt kicking of the '64 1/2 - 66 Mustangs when you look at the sales numbers lol.
 
Sales and Marketing

'The Mustang kicked the Fish'

th
 
RustyRatRod said:
The Fox body platform as made up for any butt kickin any of the former body Mustangs got. That's perhaps the best pony car platform that's ever been. It's undeniable.
Click to expand...

Not really...it was not especially rigid (ragtops, of course, the worst), the coupes had dismal interior and trunk space, it had 4-lug wheels with tiny brakes and a less-than-optimum MacPherson strut front end. They had weak transmissions, and I don't think they even offered ABS until 1994.
 
1964 Ford Mustang,

Introduced to the public on April 17, 1964 at the World's Fair in Flushing, New York.

I was there in May 1964 and there was always a large attraction at the Ford Exhibition area.

Ford was advertising a special deal > $64.00 Down, with 36 payments at $64.00
for the $2368 Hardtop Coupe.

Marketed as $64 a month, for a 64' Mustang.

Brilliant Marketing.........

Ford was expecting Sales to be around 60,000 for the 1964 1/2 {Half Sales Year}. They doubled it at 121,538.

Due the high-demand, quality was given a pass over 'volume'. Get those Mustangs out..........



pg30.jpg
 
E-Man,

One of the first kits offered by Mopar in 1964 was an aluminum Carburetor/Manifold adapter that
converted the Two-Barrel Intake Manifold into a 4-Barrel.

It was recommended to use the Carter AFB #3252S {450 CFM} {1 7/16" x 1 7/16"} Carburetor off of the
1962 ~ 361/305 HP '361 Golden Commando'.
 
Jarlaxle said:
Not really...it was not especially rigid (ragtops, of course, the worst), the coupes had dismal interior and trunk space, it had 4-lug wheels with tiny brakes and a less-than-optimum MacPherson strut front end. They had weak transmissions, and I don't think they even offered ABS until 1994.
Click to expand...

This is the first and last time I'll respond to this, because I don't want to get this way off track, but you're wrong. A lot of the Fox body guys go for the drop top because it is MORE rigid than the coupe or fastback. They have superior rocker strength given them since they have no top and are actually stronger.

Secondly, the 4 lug and brakes were more than adequate, due to their light weight. Not like they were stopping a 350 plus HP 3500 pound plus car.

All you have to do is look at the sales numbers and their factory and aftermarket support. Helen Keller could even see they are a good package.
 
Rusty Rod you are correct.

Example as Per Shipping Weight >

1964 Hardtop Coupe ~ 289 4-Speed......... #2817 lbs.

1964 Convertible ~ 289 4-Speed.............. #2995 lbs.

The 'Rag Top' was built with a 'strengthened frame' and heavier steel.

It weighed {+178 lbs.} more..............

In 1964 {NHRA} the 289/210 HP 'Convertibles' were more desired at the Drag Strip, because they fell into G/Stock.
The 'Hardtop' 289/210 HP's were classed in F/Stock.
 
An "old school" story. A guy named Steve Collision ,was a drag racing magazine editor. His first car,was a 64-65 Mustang. (This was 1966,he was high school age). He picked up a 2v289/Toploader,fastback. It had the two barrel,on it. He swings, by a speed shop. He sees a"Shelby Cobra" dual quad set up for sale.He has money,of course he buys it! Installs it,on a stock two barrel 289. So now,he needs some slicks. He installed,something like 28" slick(on the stock 3.0 8" gears). Now he goes hunting. A small block Chev,wanted a street light request. Steve drops the clutch,at 4500 -5000 Of couse,the 8" Ford grenaded!. He ended up with: A 57 Ranch Wagon 9"& 4:56's. He,hit the 14.0's . Sorry for the post length,I still find this humorous .(gotta learn somewhere.).
 
RustyRatRod said:
This is the first and last time I'll respond to this, because I don't want to get this way off track, but you're wrong. A lot of the Fox body guys go for the drop top because it is MORE rigid than the coupe or fastback. They have superior rocker strength given them since they have no top and are actually stronger.

Secondly, the 4 lug and brakes were more than adequate, due to their light weight. Not like they were stopping a 350 plus HP 3500 pound plus car.

All you have to do is look at the sales numbers and their factory and aftermarket support. Helen Keller could even see they are a good package.
Click to expand...

They were cheap and well-marketed. No more and no less. They were an economy sedan (Fairmont/Zephyr) with a pretty body and a hot engine, no more and no less.

Unless and until I see actual hard data that the convertibles were STIFFER than the coupes (or even hatches), I simply don't believe it.
 
Jarlaxle said:
They were cheap and well-marketed. No more and no less. They were an economy sedan (Fairmont/Zephyr) with a pretty body and a hot engine, no more and no less.

Unless and until I see actual hard data that the convertibles were STIFFER than the coupes (or even hatches), I simply don't believe it.
Click to expand...

Check the 'Shipping Weight' of the 1964 1/2 Models for 'one'.

* Hardtop Coupe
* Convertible {+178 lbs.}

1964 1/2 Mustang 'Convertible'

Check out the Sub-Frame Connections and Torque-Boxes

DSC07080.jpg
 
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