1965 Dart, 225, Crankcase ventilation and exhaust pipe.

-
Bills65Dart

Bills65Dart

FABO Gold Member
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2019
Messages
1,771
Reaction score
889
Location
Santa Rosa, California
My dart has as other Dart's 2 tubes on the valve cover. One in front, one in the rear. The rear one is a kind of a rounded one, no hoses to it of any kind. Just sits there.
In front there is a different kind of cap, larger, and with a hose that goes to the tube in the side of the air cleaner. The carb. (Holley 1920), has a port on the bottom that is plugged with a rubber/plastic (read tupperware) cap.

So, from the shop manual it seems like it has had two systems. California, and anywhere else in the Milky Way (Galaxy). The "Milky Way" version seems to have only one hose to the valve cover, while the California version seems to have two hoses.

I used engine degreaser on the engine a couple of weeks ago, and now just after having the engine running a little in the driveway the valve cover is wet from oil fumes down from the front tube, where the hose goes to the air cleaner. Which will be no fun when I paint the engine.

Any suggestions ? I will not say it is a lot of blowby in the engine, but it is not vacuum either to put it that way.

Bill
 
Bills65Dart said:
My dart has as other Dart's 2 tubes on the valve cover. One in front, one in the rear. The rear one is a kind of a rounded one, no hoses to it of any kind. Just sits there.
In front there is a different kind of cap, larger, and with a hose that goes to the tube in the side of the air cleaner. The carb. (Holley 1920), has a port on the bottom that is plugged with a rubber/plastic (read tupperware) cap.

So, from the shop manual it seems like it has had two systems. California, and anywhere else in the Milky Way (Galaxy). The "Milky Way" version seems to have only one hose to the valve cover, while the California version seems to have two hoses.

I used engine degreaser on the engine a couple of weeks ago, and now just after having the engine running a little in the driveway the valve cover is wet from oil fumes down from the front tube, where the hose goes to the air cleaner. Which will be no fun when I paint the engine.

Any suggestions ? I will not say it is a lot of blowby in the engine, but it is not vacuum either to put it that way.

Bill
Click to expand...

The front one sounds like the breather/oil cap and the rear should have the PCV valve there. Sounds like it's missing. Can you post a picture?
 
Here is a pic of my Commando calve cover with the chrome cap and PCV valve. Your slant would have a painted cap with the Valve installed.

F96A9651-C0DF-414D-8A66-6BCA4677AE27.jpeg
 
oh my, I forgot, is it normal that the tail pipe on these are so small ? On my car it seems to be competing with the VW bug about being as small as possible.

Bill
 
I’d bet dollars to donuts that his is a CA model which used that air cleaner with the hose.
 
65 Dartman said:
I’d bet dollars to donuts that his is a CA model which used that air cleaner with the hose.
Click to expand...

I kind of partial to donuts... lol. You are right, I do have a tube on the air cloeaner. Cleaner, sorry.

However, I have no clue if it is a California version or not. I mean, someone could have put on that air cleaner top later. The car is made at the Dodge plant. VIN starts with 2352.

And to the tail pipe, it is 1 3/8" inside and 1 1/2" outside, isn't that awfully thin for such a big engine... well, I guess some is laughing at me now, 225 cubic inches is not a small engine. It is half of 450 cubic inches, and those would most likely have dual 2 inch pipes.

Bill
 
Bills65Dart said:
I kind of partial to donuts... lol. You are right, I do have a tube on the air cloeaner. Cleaner, sorry.

And to the tail pipe, it is 1 3/8" inside and 1 1/2" outside, isn't that awfully thin for such a big engine... well, I guess some is laughing at me now, 225 cubic inches is not a small engine. It is half of 450 cubic inches, and those would most likely have dual 2 inch pipes.

Bill
Click to expand...

In stock form, it's just fine.
 
RustyRatRod said:
In stock form, it's just fine.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I guess I am a little particular when it comes to getting the exhaust out. Guess I am used to Fords, breathes well in, but struggle getting it out, Chevy is the opposite, and I have no idea where Mopar lands in this.

Bill
 
Bills65Dart said:
Sorry, I guess I am a little particular when it comes to getting the exhaust out. Guess I am used to Fords, breathes well in, but struggle getting it out, Chevy is the opposite, and I have no idea where Mopar lands in this.

Bill
Click to expand...

I agree with you. I am looking for a thicker casting exhaust manifold not that I can bore the outlet as close to 2.5" as possible.
 
1 3/8" never knew they made them that small, LOL I thought 1 1/2 was the smallest.
 
Look where the pipe is welded at the head pipe. Choke city. The 273 had a bad spot at the weld too. Seems they didnt pay too much attention to that part, yet the 2bbl got a 2.25 head pipe over the 1 7/8 iirc. Once past the muffler where the gasses cool and contract, they are much easier to exhale. I saw a full size truck with a 10" exhaust tip today. Looked like an inverted bucket feeding out of a 3" pipe. Lame. Both stacks the same OD? Just put the hosed cap on the back and show off that Charger 225 decal. Itll draw through the front just fine.
Dart11-630x419.jpg
 
Last edited:
pishta said:
Look where the pipe is welded at the head pipe. Choke city. The 273 had a bad spot at the weld too. Seems they didnt pay too much attention to that part, yet the 2bbl got a 2.25 head pipe over the 1 7/8 iirc. Once past the muffler where the gasses cool and contract, they are much easier to exhale. I saw a full size truck with a 10" exhaust tip today. Looked like an inverted bucket feeding out of a 3" pipe. Lame. Both stacks the same OD? Just put the hosed cap on the back and show off that Charger 225 decal. Itll draw through the front just fine.
View attachment 1715386717
Click to expand...

So basically you use it as a non-California vehicle, only PCV valve and hose to the bottom of the carb, no hose from the oil cap to the air cleaner.

When it comes to the exhaust I agree with you. Better to have it thicker in front and thinner in the back than the opposite. That is just for showoff. :) And, I guess that is ok too, if someone want that. lol


Bill
 
pishta said:
Look where the pipe is welded at the head pipe. Choke city. The 273 had a bad spot at the weld too. Seems they didnt pay too much attention to that part, yet the 2bbl got a 2.25 head pipe over the 1 7/8 iirc. Once past the muffler where the gasses cool and contract, they are much easier to exhale. I saw a full size truck with a 10" exhaust tip today. Looked like an inverted bucket feeding out of a 3" pipe. Lame. Both stacks the same OD? Just put the hosed cap on the back and show off that Charger 225 decal. Itll draw through the front just fine.
View attachment 1715386717
Click to expand...

By the way, is this something I can go to a Dodge dealer and get, complete with the cap and V spring and everything ? But, I guess we are still talking about $85.00 for it, like Classic Industries want.

Bill
 
49 state did not have the vent hose from the oil filler cap to the air cleaner. Being from CA you might still be required to use it. The hose from the PCV valve go to a port in the carburetor.
 
Bills65Dart said:
By the way, is this something I can go to a Dodge dealer and get, complete with the cap and V spring and everything ? But, I guess we are still talking about $85.00 for it, like Classic Industries want.

Bill
Click to expand...

I bet they would just laugh at you. If you can’t find the cap locally, I have this one that was powder coated by Leanna. I could probably scare up the rest of the parts to make a complete unit.

8A283564-2B5E-4849-860E-D8A1330B554D.jpeg
 
65 Dartman said:
49 state did not have the vent hose from the oil filler cap to the air cleaner. Being from CA you might still be required to use it. The hose from the PCV valve go to a port in the carburetor.
Click to expand...

Well, my car will not be inspected, no smogging on it. It is too old. Then, well, isn't the idea that the engine will pull in the fumes through the PCV valve and burn them ? So I sort of fail to see that it is such a benefit with the hose from the oil filler cap to the air cleaner. I mean, it will not help when the engine is running since it is suction there anyway, and it will not help when the engine is stopped either, because then the engine does not pull anything in, neither from the oil filler cap nor the PCV valve. I have the feeling it is most for looks. :)

Bill
 
Bills65Dart said:
Then, well, isn't the idea that the engine will pull in the fumes through the PCV valve and burn them ?
Click to expand...
Yep, that’s the way it works

“Bills65Dart said:
So I sort of fail to see that it is such a benefit with the hose from the oil filler cap to the air cleaner. I mean, it will not help when the engine is running since it is suction there anyway, and it will not help when the engine is stopped either, because then the engine does not pull anything in, neither from the oil filler cap nor the PCV valve. I have the feeling it is most for looks. :)

Bill
Click to expand...

Apparently the powers that were in charge in CA in 65 felt that it was needed so that’s why you got it in 65 where the other 49 states got it in 66 or maybe 67
 
65 Dartman said:
Yep, that’s the way it works



Apparently the powers that were in charge in CA in 65 felt that it was needed so that’s why you got it in 65 where the other 49 states got it in 66 or maybe 67
Click to expand...

I am aware of that, and I am all for things that works. The PCV valve and system is the right medicine for a real problem. I just don't see the value of the hose from the oil filler cap to the air filter housing. If the oil filler cap had a valve, and it was air tight around the tube, and the PCV valve was air tight, and the carb. was air tight when the engine stopped, then I could see a bit more point in it but still barely. The air is supposed to go from the air filter (unfiltered on a '65 Dart), into the engine, and out of the PCV valve and to the bottom of the carb with the oil fumes and then burned. It is not supposed to come out anything from the oil filler cap to the air filter during engine operation. If it did, I could see a point in it, but then it would not be the circulation the engine is supposed to have, with fresh air in through the oil filler cap, then being mixed with fumes and then burned.

Bill
 
Bills65Dart said:
I sort of fail to see that it is such a benefit with the hose from the oil filler cap to the air cleaner.
Click to expand...

What we're talking about here is a ducted crankcase breather, which was on all California cars (from all makers) starting from 1964 model year, and all cars in the other 49 states starting from 1968. The reason why it's there is simple: gas flow outside → crankcase → PCV valve → intake only works when there's enough manifold vacuum. Stomp the accelerator or go up a long hill and manifold vacuum drops off, so crankcase fumes flow out the breather and into the atmosphere (and into your lungs, koff). The ducted breather ensures crankcase fumes wind up in the intake tract no matter which way they flow.

Now, with a ducted breather, if the engine's a whupped pony with lots of blowby or the wrong PCV valve is installed, you're going to oil down the air filter. This can be worked around by installing the right PCV valve or rebuilding the engine as necessary (duh); short of that, if you have to have a ducted breather—or you want one because you'd rather not smell crankcase fumes—but you need time before you can fix the motor properly, you can put together an air/oil separator with a jar, some metal scouring pads, some bits of pipe, and some fittings.
 
slantsixdan said:
What we're talking about here is a ducted crankcase breather, which was on all California cars (from all makers) starting from 1964 model year, and all cars in the other 49 states starting from 1968. The reason why it's there is simple: gas flow outside → crankcase → PCV valve → intake only works when there's enough manifold vacuum. Stomp the accelerator or go up a long hill and manifold vacuum drops off, so crankcase fumes flow out the breather and into the atmosphere (and into your lungs, koff). The ducted breather ensures crankcase fumes wind up in the intake tract no matter which way they flow.

Now, with a ducted breather, if the engine's a whupped pony with lots of blowby or the wrong PCV valve is installed, you're going to oil down the air filter. This can be worked around by installing the right PCV valve or rebuilding the engine as necessary (duh); short of that, if you have to have a ducted breather—or you want one because you'd rather not smell crankcase fumes—but you need time before you can fix the motor properly, you can put together an air/oil separator with a jar, some metal scouring pads, some bits of pipe, and some fittings.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected, I have never read that before, and it took me a while to find that online. Most explain it as a one way route for the air, which is what I have read all my life. But, theory and practice is not always the same.

Anyway, I have the closed oil filler cap with the tube, and I have the air cleaner with the tube too, just need a little longer hose. Today I got the PCV valve from one place, and the housing and spring from a different place. All fit. Needs to be painted though. I hope I will notice a difference in the smell with a PCV valve in place, compared to nothing.

Bill
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top