1968 '340' Barracuda vs 1968 '383' Road Runner

-
BBBCUDA said:
The mid-high 14 second times of these performance cars is interesting. Some while back, I put together a 383 1972 Valiant 4 door. I used only the finest in used junk, a 60,000 mile 1965 383 2 bbl. engine, no internal mods at all beyond lapping in the valves. It was a good thing I pulled the heads to verify internal condition, as 1 exhaust valve had a nice "V" burnt into it. A used valve from another head fixed that.

This engine was rated at 9.2/1 compression, and 270 HP. I added a factory cast iron intake, and an untouched Holley 600 cfm vacuum secondary carb. Exhaust was 2", (not a typo), pipes to cheap mufflers off of the stock C body log manifolds. The trans was a 727 from a Newport with a stock converter, a home brewed shift kit, and 120,000 miles on it. An 8-3/4 Sure Grip rear with cruiser 2.76 gears rounded out the drive train. With worn out M/T 14" S/S tires out back, it ran 14.80's with no tuning, using only first and second gear. The car weighed 3,240#, and I'm over 200. Why a performance car didn't fare any better I don't know.
Click to expand...

Track prep & tires have come a long way since back in the day.
My Wifes 300C wil blow the tires off with the taction control turned off, but hooks solid at the track running 14.20's while weighing in at 4100LBS.
Apples to Oranges when trying to compare ET's from back in the day to present day.
Even Drag Slicks have made leaps & bounds in advancement.
 
The last Super Stockers in Action Magazine for 1967 (October 1967)

Was the last magazine printed by the publication.

Difficult Magazine to find.

Below is the March 1966 Issue.

 
mikedevore said:
Track prep & tires have come a long way since back in the day.
My Wifes 300C wil blow the tires off with the taction control turned off, but hooks solid at the track running 14.20's while weighing in at 4100LBS.
Apples to Oranges when trying to compare ET's from back in the day to present day.
Even Drag Slicks have made leaps & bounds in advancement.
Click to expand...

True, to a point. Some of those magazine test cars got some small slicks for the tests, and they still ran in the 14's. I had the lowest HP 383 ever manufactured, with 60,000 miles on the clock, a 120,000 mile trans, and 2.76 gears. I would have thought to see a greater spread in times. Even accounting for traction, my Mph. was comparable, in the high 90's, 98 I believe best.

I did NO tuning, none to the origional non-perf distributor, nor even a jet change to the too small 600 cfm. carb. The car was MUCH more responsive and powerful with a 750 DP carb, but I could never cure the internal fuel leak and it was replaced.

I guess my point is, none of them were really all that fast, fast enough to be competitive or beat the other brands, sure, but 14 second 1/4 mile times from a performance car of any brand isn't too impressive to me, I did it with $400 worth of junk.
 
BB Cuda,

Agree on some of the Magazine Performance Tests.

Many 'Off-the-Dealership-Lot' Cars were left completely 'as is' when tested by
the Magazine Editors and Staff.

Not even correctly tuned, and with the Air Cleaner left on, Spare Tire and Jack still
in the trunk.

Some of the 'Press Test Cars' were prepared with 'Performance Tune-Ups', which
included a 'Performance Curve Distributor', a colder set of Spark Plugs and 'Premium'
Ignition Wires.

The Spare Tire and Jack Assembly were always removed, to lessen the load about 35 lbs.

And, many 'Press Test Cars' for Drag Strip testing, were Drum Brake Cars, and with a
Manual Steering-Box, and equipped with 'Drag Shocks', which helped for better
off-the-line traction with the factory sized tires.

As a Note; The '383' Road Runner was woefully 'under-carbed'. The Carter AVS 750 CFM off of the
'Super Commando' or Holley 780 CFM 'vacuum-secondary' was an automatic required 'up-grade' for
those cars.
 
Mack,

In December 1967, each of '5' Plymouth Dealership/Race Teams were building a
1968 '383' Road Runner to compete at the 1968 NHRA Winternationals at Pomona,
California and at the 1968 AHRA Winternationals at Lions Dragstrip, California.

* Sox & Martin (Burlington, North Carolina) - 4-Speed
* First Avenue Chrysler-Plymouth (Cedar Rapids, Iowa) - 4-Speed
* Prince Chrysler-Plymouth (Inglewood, California) - 4-Speed
* Northern California Plymouth Dealers Association (Freemont, California) - 4-Speed
* Town & Country Chrysler-Plymouth (Phoenix, Arizona) - Automatic

Sox & Martin never brought the 68' '383' Road Runner with them, as it couldn't run quicker
than a best of 13.12 @ 106 MPH.
 
1968 NHRA Winternationals {February 2, 3 & 4 @ Pomona, California}


Stock Eliminator Championship

Jim McFarland, Editor for Hot Rod Magazine driving Sox & Martin's
E/SA 1968 Barracuda 340 'Formula S' to Runner-Up in the Stock
Eliminator Championhsip.

Not a 1968 '383' Road Runner to be found............

 
69, this can be argued until the cows come home. We can go back and read article, after article. I was around in the late 60's and early 70's, and I know what I saw.
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
TurboDart,

We're talking about 1968.

In Stock Class back then, you were limited on any 'up-grades', not like today.

* 7" Slicks were Maximum-Width
* No Lightweight Wheels

A 'Bone-Stock' 383 Road Runner w/3.91 Gears, tweaked with a 'Performance Curve' and
Carburetor Zip-Kit, and 7" Cheater-Slicks - could just about make 14.00's @ 100 MPH.

That is a Fact.
Click to expand...

I know your talking about 68. The fact is that my 69 Road Runner was untouched and ran high 13s no problem. No slicks, no "zip kit", No "performance curve" and 3.91s were factory. And I am not the only one out there.
 
Turbo-Man,

Not saying it couldn't be done, but they were rare and few.

Plymouth Magazine Advertisement Performance Test below,

Ronnie Sox ran a 14.01 @ 101.26 MPH with a '383' Road Runner 4-Speed w/3.91 Gears.

And Jerry Gross (Chrysler Racing Tech.) ran a 14.26 @ 100.22 MPH in the same
car.

Their Road Runner was equipped with a 'Hurst Shifter' and 'Dual-Point Distributor'.
 
69 Cuda 440 said:
Correct 73 Red,

We lived it.....The 340 Mini Hercules.........Scores a TKO over the 383 Road Runner.
Click to expand...

We called them "Giant Killers", all the same. Nobody said there were no RR's that could take a 340 a-body. I'm quite sure it happened. The majority of the time, it didn't though.
 
I drove a friends 1968 383/auto RR that had a ton of miles & smoked like a frieght train.
It was stock, but it was very fast.
My other friend had a '68 Super Bee 383 -4speed with headers. That RR would clean his clock.

I also drove a 1971 383/auto RR that was very quick. it had 50k on it & was stock.
Those are two that stick out in my mind that ran real well.

Some 383's were just always a tick faster than most others.

Every '68-'71 340 A-Body I drove were very impressive in stock form.
No one isn't saying the 383 is a dog, just needed some of the right stuff to make it go.
One thing about it, Plymouth couldn't build Road Runners quick enough.

This may be hear-say, but I was told than the 340 & the HEMI engines were built by Chyrsler's Marine division.
Now this could make the 340 a better performing engine that the standard run of the mill 383 if this was true, since the 383 was going into a budget Muscle car.
The debate will go on.
 
Found my friends name in a 1968 Drag News Publication.

August 17, 1968 @ Connecticut Dragway

Winning Class Trophy in E/SA with a 14.72 @ 95.50

1968 '383' Road Runner 'Pillared Coupe'
He had 3.55 Gears, Headers and 7" Slicks with the Automatic.

He purchased it new, in October 1967. One of the first Road Runners ever produced.
A bare bones Road Runner, that I don't think he paid more than $3200 for.
 
Chip,

You must remember,

The 1968 Road Runner was 'heavily marketed' as a 'Street Musclecar', while
the 1968 Barracuda 340-S had minimal marketing.

Plymouth released the 68' Road Runner on September 12, 1967 - and that
car had more advanced 'magazine advertisements'.

1968 Production Numbers

383 Road Runner.........45,035

Barracuda 340-S..........3917
Barracuda 383.............1120

The 'first' Road Runner Magazine Advertisement (Hot Rod Magazine, September 1967)

 
Chip,

Sox & Martin headed out to the 1968 AHRA and 1968 NHRA Winternationals with
'4' cars on the Car Carriers.

* 1967 GTX '426 Street Hemi' ....................................SS/D
* 1967 Plymouth RO23 Belvedere II '426 Street Hemi'......SS/C
* 1968 Road Runner '426 Hemi'....................................A/MP
* 1968 GTX 440.......................................................SS/F

Herb McAndless and John Livingston drove the 1968 Barracuda 340 'Formula S'
out to the West Coast, towing a U-Haul Parts Trailer.

The Barracuda was prepped in California, and driven by Hot Rod Magazine Editor
Jim McFarland at the NHRA Winternationals in Pomona.

Where, it won it's Class E/SA, by defeating 'Smoky Joe' Coletti in the 1968 'Riddler' Barracuda
340 'Formula S' in the Class Final.

Jim McFarland then drove the Barracuda through 4-Rounds of 'wins' in Stock Eliminator, and in the
Finals was nipped out by John Barkley who beat him with a 1957 Chevy, Classed in M/SA.
 
This thread has some serious legs.....:)

I DO find it all interesting though. Question though.....how did the 383 RR's fare against the 396 Chevelles and the 390 Fairlane/Torinos? They couldn't have done that great against the 375 H.P. Chevelles, I would think.
 
As I stated earlier, my ex brother in laws RR tore up SS 396's, and 390 Fairlanes. A friend of mine was telling me that he had an SS 454 Chevelle. He said there was a little 340 Dart beating everybody, until he ran him. He said he beat him, but not by much. All of these cars were fast, most ran in the mid 14's, so a lot of times it merely came down to the driver. My older brother bought a brand new '67 GTO. 400 4 speed. He broke it in, by beating a '67 375 horse SS 396. After that, he went to the drag strip and drove the SS for the guy he beat.
 
Cudavert,

The 1968 'medium-body' cars that were within the same E/S or E/SA Class as the '383' Road Runner were the;

Chevrolet Chevelle SS393 {396/350 HP}
Pontiac GTO {400/350 HP}
Oldmsobile 4-4-2 {400/350 HP}
Buick GS400 {400/340 HP}

The Mercury Cyclone {390/325 HP} and Torino GT {390/325 HP} were classed
one lower in F/S or F/SA in 1968.

I would have to honestly say, that they were all fairly close in 'Stock Performance'
with the 4-Speed. But the '383' Road Runner had a slight-edge with the A-727 Automatic
against the other automatics.

The '383' Road Runner was 'no match' for the 396/375 HP Chevelle 4-Speed cars.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To make the '383' Road Runners run on the street

Part I
1) First you needed a set of 3.91 or 4.10 Gears.
2) Adjustable Pinion Snubber
3) Front Leaf Spring Clamp
4) Extra-Stiff Rear Shocks
5) G60 x 15" Tires on 15" x 7" rims
6) Headers (Cyclone or Hooker Headers)

Part II
1) Replace the Inland Shifter with a Hurst Competition Shifter
2) Pull the Cylinder Heads
- a) Have the Machine Shop perform a 3/Angle Valve Job
- b) Have the #906 Heads milled to get the Combustion Chamber down to 78.5 CC (usually a .040" Milling)
- c) Have the Valve Spring Height set to equal
- d) Have the ports matched
- e) Install a set of Teflon Seals
3) Install a Chrysler #3412004 "284" .484" Lift / 284* Duration Hydraulic Camshaft and Matched Lifters
4) Install a Double-Roller Timing Chain
5) Install a Carter or Holley High-Pressure Mechanical Fuel Pump

Part III
1) Install an Edelbrock #DP4B Aluminum Dual-Plane High-Rise Intake
2) Install a Carter 750 CFM AVS or Holley 780 CFM 'Vacuum-Secondary Carburetor
3) Install a Dual-Point Distributor with Performance Curve

With 4.10 Gears, you would be damn near the 'King of the Hill' on Street in 1968.

If you had the 'balls' to put in a set of 4.56 Gears, you'd be running low 13.00's.
 
4.56 gears made the 383 nasty on the street.
 
fishmens67 said:
4.56 gears made the 383 nasty on the street.
Click to expand...

In 1968,

You could purchase a set of 4.56 Gears w/Sure-Grip and complete in a #42 Case from Gratiot Auto Supply for $160.

A popular Gear Choice for Street/Strip cars in 1968.

Though a few guys opted for the 4.30's when they became available.

Match Race

1968 - 383 Road Runner {383/335 HP}
Shipping Weight = #3424 lbs.
Code 'H' {383/335 HP}
Gears = 3.91 Sure-Grip {Special Order Performance Axle}
Production = 45,035
Cost = $3200

1968_road_runner_overview.jpg


versus

1968 Chevelle Malibu SS 396 {396/350 HP}
Shipping Weight = #3549 lbs.
Code #L-34 {396/350 HP}
Gears = 3.73 Posi {12-Bolt}
Production {L-34} = 12,481
Approximate Cost = $3400

b0_1_14719_1.JPG
 
Dover Drag Strip

May 19, 1968

Class Winners
E/S..... Harris Auto Sales......... 1968 Barracuda 340 'Formula S'
E/SA.. Art Keenan................... 1968 '383' Road Runner



file.php
 
I cannot understand why the 1967-69 Barracuda's didn't sell as well as the mustang.
I thought this was the greatest looking A-body ever!
It also had something for everyone.
the minimal bumpers, those sexy rounded off fenders, got to quit now, breathing hard. LOL
 
1968 Production Numbers

Plymouth Barracuda....46,018


Ford Mustang............ 317,404


* The Mustang was a 'Horse' of a different color.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top