1968 Dart ... Need wiring help

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A325ic

A325ic

GTS Registry #555
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
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Location
Concord,NC
I just installed a Master Power vacuum pump yesterday 11/29/2017 and now my headlights are flickering. I am guessing that I am not putting out enough power from the alternator. I just seen an old Hot Rod magazine article that showed how to install a higher output alternator without running the power back through the bulk head connection using a kit from MOPAR BY CRANE Electrical Upgrade Kit (Harness Preserver) but when I searched for the information I see that they (MOPARS by Crane), have closed a while ago. Does anyone know of another manufacturer that is making this same kit or is there a better way to do this with out installing a whole new wiring harness, (I am retired and a upgraded wiring harness is to expensive for me right now).
 
A325ic,
I take it that the vacuum pump needs 12vdc to operate, do you know how much it needs under load? How many amps does your current alt put out? Do you have other add ons to the elec system which are pulling additional amps? I would suggest a 90/100 1 wire alternator that connects to a 12v source with a self contained voltage regulator and a 8/10 gage wire going from the alternator direct to the starter relay. Crackedback here at FABO sells a Alt Wire setup. That way no need to go into the dist block. Also then delete the factor voltage relay and wiring.

Marion
 
If you still have the OEM type alternator and regulator for the 68 model, upgrading to the later OEM parts might be all you need to do. You would gain approximately 20 amps with isolated field and a solid state regulator.
 
mario03srt said:
A325ic,
I take it that the vacuum pump needs 12vdc to operate, do you know how much it needs under load? How many amps does your current alt put out? Do you have other add ons to the elec system which are pulling additional amps? I would suggest a 90/100 1 wire alternator that connects to a 12v source with a self contained voltage regulator and a 8/10 gage wire going from the alternator direct to the starter relay. Crackedback here at FABO sells a Alt Wire setup. That way no need to go into the dist block. Also then delete the factor voltage relay and wiring.

Marion
Click to expand...
Marion ... Thank You for the information. I looked in the installation booklet for the vacuum pump and there is no mention of amps required. However because of your reply I reached out to Master Power for the information and they said "no more than 10 amps". I bought this car for my wife and many upgrades have been done before I purchased the car. I did notice that it has Halogen headlights but no added relays, and the alternator appears to be an original round back with one green wire with a push on connector and one brown/black heaver wire mounted on a threaded stud. On my other 68 Dart I also put in Halogen Headlights over a year ago but I also purchased and install a relay kit from Classic Industries, (I will do the same for this car now). I do not know the current amp output. I would like to reach out to Crackedback to get the Alt wire setup for the bulkhead bypass, then get a higher output alternator. After your reply I looked into alternators and some information found on FABO and it seems that a multi wire alternator setup the prefered way to go, what is your opinion?
 
A325,

I chose a 90 Amp 1 Wire Powermaster Alt due to it's simplicity. Also I went with Fuel Injection and a HEI Ignition. I cleared out all of the funky wiring, alt, dizzy, ecu, etc and did a total power rewire into the firewall bypassing the dist block and the ammeter gage. So I started with a clean slate so to speak and a nice perfectly functional setup with a much cleaner and better performing harness and alternator setup. I also used relays for all the power apps, Fans, HEI, FiTech, and soon my head lights.

I'm no expert on the plus and minuses on using one setup versus the other. It works correctly with the 200 miles or so on it as my sample size so to speak. There are a lot of purists here and I appreciate their positions on many things. Ma Mopar got a lot of things right.........for back in the day IMO. I can remember in 73/74 Joe Garagiola the sports broadcaster in commercials on TV (we only had 4 VHF and 1 UHF channels back then lol) showing off the Chrysler electronic ignition with a fireman douching the engine bay and starting the car. Big stuff back then :).

FYI,
Marion
 
mario03srt said:
A325,

I chose a 90 Amp 1 Wire Powermaster Alt due to it's simplicity. Also I went with Fuel Injection and a HEI Ignition. I cleared out all of the funky wiring, alt, dizzy, ecu, etc and did a total power rewire into the firewall bypassing the dist block and the ammeter gage. So I started with a clean slate so to speak and a nice perfectly functional setup with a much cleaner and better performing harness and alternator setup. I also used relays for all the power apps, Fans, HEI, FiTech, and soon my head lights.

I'm no expert on the plus and minuses on using one setup versus the other. It works correctly with the 200 miles or so on it as my sample size so to speak. There are a lot of purists here and I appreciate their positions on many things. Ma Mopar got a lot of things right.........for back in the day IMO. I can remember in 73/74 Joe Garagiola the sports broadcaster in commercials on TV (we only had 4 VHF and 1 UHF channels back then lol) showing off the Chrysler electronic ignition with a fireman douching the engine bay and starting the car. Big stuff back then :).

FYI,
Marion
Click to expand...
Marion, again Thank You ... I will search out a Powermaster 90/100 amp alternator, earlier when I mentioned the Halogen headlights with no relays I for got to mention that the car has Electronic ignition a MSD 6AL P/N 6420. Using FABO do you know how do I reach out to Crackedback to purchase one of his wiring kits to avoid going through the firewall distribution block. I am good at mechanical problems, but only so-so with wiring.
 
I just don't like "one wire" they are not necessarily "better" than multi wire and are harder to "kill" for things like a battery disconnect.

You definately need to bypass the ammeter (AKA Crackedback and at least read the MAD article.)

He also sells headlight relay kits

If nothing else one thing that you must be careful of with "one wire" setups is to run a MUCH larger charge wire, because the voltage sensing is on that wire. So voltage drop becomes more critical. For anthing more than 60-70A I would run no6. Up to about that no8
 
67Dart273 said:
I just don't like "one wire" they are not necessarily "better" than multi wire and are harder to "kill" for things like a battery disconnect.

You definately need to bypass the ammeter (AKA Crackedback and at least read the MAD article.)

He also sells headlight relay kits

If nothing else one thing that you must be careful of with "one wire" setups is to run a MUCH larger charge wire, because the voltage sensing is on that wire. So voltage drop becomes more critical. For anthing more than 60-70A I would run no6. Up to about that no8
Click to expand...
 
67Dart273 said:
I just don't like "one wire" they are not necessarily "better" than multi wire and are harder to "kill" for things like a battery disconnect.

You definately need to bypass the ammeter (AKA Crackedback and at least read the MAD article.)

He also sells headlight relay kits

If nothing else one thing that you must be careful of with "one wire" setups is to run a MUCH larger charge wire, because the voltage sensing is on that wire. So voltage drop becomes more critical. For anthing more than 60-70A I would run no6. Up to about that no8
Click to expand...

67Dart273 .... I had a message typed back to you but my internet went down in the middle of my reply ... so I see a reply above (#8) with no new text so my apologies. I will start again. Mario has sent some good data for me to follow, but you raise some questions in my mind. As I have stated to Mario, I am not a "wiring wiz kid", but I can and do follow detailed wiring instructions and I do want to be safe. Using Mario's advice I went and attained some information on Powermaster Alternators, which left me more confused. I seen many different amp outputs but I will stay at 90/100 amps per his advise. BUT there are 1 field, 2 field - internal or external or or internal regulators (one wire have internal regulators) some have "slightly larger cases", if so will I still be able to mount a slightly larger case using my same factory brackets??? In the details it states that the one-wire units turn on and off with the engine, not sure what that means as I assume that once you turn the key to the off position and the engine quits rotating then the then the alternator is no longer putting out power. This multi-wire system that you speak of, is it much more difficult to wire? My other 68 Dart has what I believe is a "Squareback alternator" and I have run this for about 6-7 years, (it was set up this way when I purchased the car). The 68 Dart that I bought about two years ago has whAT I believe to be what is known as a "round back alternator". I will try to post photos of both ... (hope it works).
1st 68 Dart.jpg
2nd 68 Dart.jpg


Yay ... it worked !!I now see some dark spots on the square back on the ceramic, not sure if that is normal. I do need to get in touch with crackedback to purchase some of his wiring setups and get some information on wiring either the one wire system or the multi-wire system with out going through the firewall bulkhead connector. How do you contact a particular person such as crackedback on FABO?
 
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Calling all cars, calling all cars ... Be on the lookout for a FABO member named "Crackedback" He is wanted for needed information and purchases. If he is spotted do not apprehend, instead refer him to contact FABO member "A325ic" ... over.
 
A355,

I actually bought the Squareback style of Powermaster alternator so it looks like a stocker.

FYI,
Marion
 
mario03srt said:
A355,

I actually bought the Squareback style of Powermaster alternator so it looks like a stocker.

FYI,
Marion
Click to expand...
Squareback ... that is like the above alternator photo on the left, is that correct? When I called that alternator a squareback I was making an assumption based on the shape at the bottom of the alternator.
 
Check em out on SummitRacing. # 75091 90A Square Back Double Field, One Wire.
The one on the right is a Squareback. ​
 
A325,
Have you read the MAD Electrical wiring sheet. It is a must read and has a schematic. Just to a quick search and you will find it, very informative and concise. It's what I used for 12v power routing.

Marion
 
Internally regulated Denso not an option?
 
mario03srt said:
A325,
Have you read the MAD Electrical wiring sheet. It is a must read and has a schematic. Just to a quick search and you will find it, very informative and concise. It's what I used for 12v power routing.

Marion
Click to expand...
Where do I find the MAD Electrical wiring sheet?

This is an EDIT ... I found the MAD Enterprises page ... Thank You
 
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PM crackedback, he is a member here and sells a great relay kit for the headlights. I've used it on my Demon and bought the kit for my Dart. Easy install and no diming lights!
 
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