1968 Plymouth Valiant First Gen HEMI

[Mike P 52]

I’ve been hunting for a body to put the First Gen HEMI I built for a while now. Originally I was looking for a 50s Dodge or Plymouth, but due to some recent health issues decided to look for something more suitable to being able to handle daily driver duties. I settled on a late 60s-mid 70s dart or valiant.

Surprisingly they’re fairly plentiful out here, it’s not even unusual to see stock survivors being used as daily transportation. I got leads on 3 to look at this week. As it turned out they were all 68 Valiant 2 door sedans. At a glance none were exactly what I was looking for, one was way over priced for what it was. Another is basically a parts car. The last one was a turn-key “street/strip” car that was far more race than street and a lot more than I had wanted to spend.


https://flic.kr/p/2oSjWK6]

valiant 2[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


I did go over and look at it, it’s got a 508 stroker 727 combination with 8 ¾ rearend end with 4.11 gears on ladder bars and coil overs. The suspension including the mini-tubbs and sub frame connectors were very well done and being set up for the Big Block I know it will handle the weight of the HEMI.

https://flic.kr/p/2oSknkj]

Valiant 5[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


The down side to using it as a daily driver would be getting in and out of the 6 point roll cage, trunk mounted fuel cell, open hood scoop, and the paint has enough issues that it will need to be repainted.

I did love the stance of the car.


https://flic.kr/p/2oSnvLK]

valiant 8[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


And the more I thought about the suspension work being done would save me a lot of time and expense building the car.

Long story short the seller and I came to a price and I pulled the trigger yesterday.

Plans call for pulling the engine and trans and installing my 354 HEMI and 46RH (will need to do the transmission tunnel stuff). I’ll probably make the front two legs of the roll cage removable. Convert back to a flat hood and original fuel tank. I’ll also probably tint the windows to make the roll cage less noticeable. I’ll put the left overs up for sale to recoup part of the cost of the car.

So starts the project.

 

[Mike P 52]

When I introduced myself last week and wrote what my plans were the big question was why. I guess the best answer is because it’s what I do. I’ve been a hot rodder and doing engine swaps for 50 years and I guess it’s too late to change now. As far as using a Gen 1 HEMI, I’ve been doing them for the last couple of decades and I know my way around them. That and there’s just something about opening a hood and seeing those big old HEMI valve covers.

This particular engine was built as just a solid, pump gas friendly, cruiser motor and suitable for a daily driver.

From personal experience with the 46RH and likely 4.30 gears it should get between 17 and 20 MPG at 75 MPH.

If anybody’s interested here’s a video of the engine build shortly after I finished it.





If the video doesn't play when clicking on the red icon, try clicking on the "watch on You tube " icon.
.

 

[HemiDenny]

I love your ambition. The Stage I Hemi is a MFer to put in the 67-76 A body platform. As you are likely aware the early Hemi is an incredibly wide platform and requires being centered in the engine bay to clear the inner fenders / OEM shock mounts. Might not be too bad if it were not for having to have some kind of exhaust manifolds / headers.

pictured below is a set of 2"od headers built for a customer in Michigan doing a similar build except with a A body 727.

Hot rodders are a special breed. We'll put a helicopter engine in a submarine if challenged.

 

[Icetech]

beautiful

 

[Mike P 52]

Those headers look good!

"........As you are likely aware the early Hemi is an incredibly wide platform and requires being centered in the engine bay to clear the inner fenders / OEM shock mounts. Might not be too bad if it were not for having to have some kind of exhaust manifolds / headers......."


Oh, yeah. An additional thing I'm looking at is the additional height and width I'm picking up with the aluminum valve covers, hopefully I'll be able to run them but I may have to go back to a stock set.

I'm hoping the shorty headers tuck into the block tight enough to alleviate steering shaft issues, but there is always the option of building a custom steering shaft (I had to build a 3 piece shaft when I put the 331 in the 37 Dodge truck). For a 354 CI street motor I figure a 2 1/2" exhaust will be sufficient, which will make routing the exhaust a lot easier than going big pipes.

I think I have the oil pan sorted out, as a 57-58 392 mid sump pan and pickup should clear. Nobody's reproducing them but they occasionally show up on ebay and swap meets and in a pinch can build a custom pan if necessary.

Fortunately I have a builder 331 I can use as a mock-up motor and I'll be checking with my buddy at the transmission shop on Monday to see if he has an 46RH/RE case and OD housing I can borrow for a while to test fit and do my fabrication.

"......Hot rodders are a special breed. We'll put a helicopter engine in a submarine if challenged....."

Well yeah!!!! lol If it was easy everybody would do it.

 

[HemiDenny]

Those headers look good!

"........As you are likely aware the early Hemi is an incredibly wide platform and requires being centered in the engine bay to clear the inner fenders / OEM shock mounts. Might not be too bad if it were not for having to have some kind of exhaust manifolds / headers......."


Oh, yeah. An additional thing I'm looking at is the additional height and width I'm picking up with the aluminum valve covers, hopefully I'll be able to run them but I may have to go back to a stock set.

I'm hoping the shorty headers tuck into the block tight enough to alleviate steering shaft issues, but there is always the option of building a custom steering shaft (I had to build a 3 piece shaft when I put the 331 in the 37 Dodge truck). For a 354 CI street motor I figure a 2 1/2" exhaust will be sufficient, which will make routing the exhaust a lot easier than going big pipes.

I think I have the oil pan sorted out, as a 57-58 392 mid sump pan and pickup should clear. Nobody's reproducing them but they occasionally show up on ebay and swap meets and in a pinch can build a custom pan if necessary.

Fortunately I have a builder 331 I can use as a mock-up motor and I'll be checking with my buddy at the transmission shop on Monday to see if he has an 46RH/RE case and OD housing I can borrow for a while to test fit and do my fabrication.

"......Hot rodders are a special breed. We'll put a helicopter engine in a submarine if challenged....."

Well yeah!!!! lol If it was easy everybody would do it.

The customer that brought the Stage 1 Hemi for mock-up brought a set of shorties with him.....and promptly took them home. For what its worth they were not very compatible / applicable to our A bodies.

 

[Mike P 52]

".......The customer that brought the Stage 1 Hemi for mock-up brought a set of shorties with him.....and promptly took them home. For what its worth they were not very compatible / applicable to our A bodies....."

Good to know Denny, thanks. I do have a question though, is the engine your putting in a 392 or the shorter deck 331/354?

Not optimal but I do have a couple pairs of 56 exhaust manifolds and the 4 bolt flange truck manifolds still occasionally show up on E Bay (both the originals and the reproductions that were available a few years ago).

I spent some time studying the engine bay of the Valiant a little bit ago, this should be interesting LOL.

As I learned a long time ago (and I'm sure you know) you never really know until you have the engine swinging from a chain lowering it into the engine bay.

At least I think I have enough patience and am bull headed enough to pull it off and I really appreciate your comments.

 

[B-i-n-g-o]

It's so nice to see a car rock from the torque of the engine revving.

 

[Mike P 52]

On a side note, so far I've only come across one other A body with a Gen 1 Hemi (354) and that was on You Tube.

At least I know someone was able to figure it out. Unfortunately it's hard to get any real details from the video.

 

[HemiDenny]

".......The customer that brought the Stage 1 Hemi for mock-up brought a set of shorties with him.....and promptly took them home. For what its worth they were not very compatible / applicable to our A bodies....."

Good to know Denny, thanks. I do have a question though, is the engine your putting in a 392 or the shorter deck 331/354?

Not optimal but I do have a couple pairs of 56 exhaust manifolds and the 4 bolt flange truck manifolds still occasionally show up on E Bay (both the originals and the reproductions that were available a few years ago).

I spent some time studying the engine bay of the Valiant a little bit ago, this should be interesting LOL.

As I learned a long time ago (and I'm sure you know) you never really know until you have the engine swinging from a chain lowering it into the engine bay.

At least I think I have enough patience and am bull headed enough to pull it off and I really appreciate your comments.

It was a 392. The challenges are many but not "mission impossible", just a lot of mock -up and fabrication work.

Good luck with the build,
Denny

 

[HemiDenny]

On a side note, so far I've only come across one other A body with a Gen 1 Hemi (354) and that was on You Tube.

At least I know someone was able to figure it out. Unfortunately it's hard to get any real details from the video.

take note in the video .....#1 primary tube and steering box

 

[HemiDenny]

and modified passenger shock tower.

 

[Mike P 52]

".....take note in the video .....#1 primary tube and steering box......"

Yeah I did see that. It also looks like the engine may be offset to the passenger side just a little bit, but it's hard to tell.

“…….and modified passenger shock tower…….”

I did miss the shock tower, any idea what that was about?

".....The challenges are many but not "mission impossible", just a lot of mock -up and fabrication work....."

Fortunately I'm going into this fully expecting that. My setup for doing swaps is kind of old school but works pretty well for me.

You can't really see it in the picture but there is an I beam that spans the width of the shop. The manual chain hoist is connected to a trolley that rides on the I beam. You get fore and aft movement by rolling the vehicle and side movement with the trolley. I like the manual chain hoist as it allows for very fine adjustments. Of course the engine leveler for tilting the engine and trans is an absolute necessity.

And I know it will hold a 1st Gen HEMI and 46RH. LOL


https://flic.kr/p/222yDch]

eng 37[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


Like I said it works, and I know if I walk away from the mockup for a few minutes or even over night the engine will still be exactly where left it.

Again thanks for your insight.

 

[HemiDenny]

Likely reason for passenger side shock tower fabrication is to keep the engine located to the passenger side for master cylinder and steering box / shaft clearance. I'm sure you caught the offset master cylinder adapter also.

To keep the Hemi from being high in the engine compartment, the Stage I Hemi I installed ended up pretty much dead center vs the normal OEM 1-3/8" off set to the passenger side

 

[Mike P 52]

“…..I'm sure you caught the offset master cylinder adapter also..…”

Nope missed that too….I need a bigger monitor LOL

I did look at the Master Cylinder clearance to valve covers though. With the tall aluminum valve covers I’d like to run my thought was I might need to do some relocation on the MC anyway. My initial thought on that is to possibly use the MC/booster brackets that some of the early 60’s Chrysler had. It moves the MC up rather than to the side. It’s been a long time ago but I’ve used those brackets on a customers car when we did a brake system upgrade. There a bit hard to find now (at least the factory setups) but at this point I’m still in the brainstorming /parts collecting phase.

I am looking forward to lower the engine…. find an issue…correct the issue…repeat…repeat…repeat etc part of the project. LOL

 

[RustyRatRod]

It was a 392. The challenges are many but not "mission impossible", just a lot of mock -up and fabrication work.

Good luck with the build,
Denny

We have a member here with a 354 Hemi in a 65 Valiant. It was a very clean and nice install. The car is red. I don't remember his screen name, but he talked like the install wasn't all that bad.

 

[HemiDenny]

We have a member here with a 354 Hemi in a 65 Valiant. It was a very clean and nice install. The car is red. I don't remember his screen name, but he talked like the install wasn't all that bad.

I can only image the size of the shoehorn needed in a 65 / early A....which is 1-1/4" narrower than the 67-76 platform. Kudos to the builder.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I can only image the size of the shoehorn needed in a 65 / early A....which is 1-1/4" narrower than the 67-76 platform. Kudos to the builder.

Here it is in the engine bay. I don't know what happened to the member.

https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachments/dcp_0923-jpg.1714998157/

Here's the car.

Now that I think about it, I think the member's screen name is 65Valiant but I cannot get it to come up. The swap was VERY well executed.

 

[HemiDenny]

engine looks centered.

 

[Mike P 52]

Been a week of collecting parts and information.



My friend at the machine shop and I went halves on a 55 331 Hemi a while back figuring we would probably turn it and make a few bucks. We pulled the heads to verify bore size (it’s standard) and set it aside till a buyer comes along. Note to self……. “storing” parts at a machine shop is not necessarily the best solution.


https://flic.kr/p/2oTGMLx]

Parts Pile[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


Anyway he got it on a stand for me, and I’ll finish the teardown next week and just bring the bare block and a couple of heads over to my shop for mock up.



https://flic.kr/p/2oTFTCb]

MU 331[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


I’ll also be borrowing a 46 RH/RE case and Overdrive housing from a friend at the transmission shop sometime next week.

At some point I’m going to want a stock hood, heater, maybe a trunk lid (rather than repairing the hole for the power cut off switch) and probably other miscellaneous pieces. I went and looked at another 68 Valiant I’d passed on earlier and decided it would be handy to have around so I bought it. There’s no motor or transmission and a couple of front replacement floor pans are just screwed in but overall it’s solid and pretty straight. Added plus it has a clear title which I transferred this Friday. The only real difference between the 2 cars when they were new is the Green car came out of Detroit and the red car was assembled in the LA plant. Another plus is I found both cars within 5 miles from where I live.



https://flic.kr/p/2oTybew]

1968 PC[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



The seller had originally intended to build it as a race car, but ended up finding a Nova instead so this one went up for sale. At least I saved it from a SB Chevy swap. It’s a small bolt pattern car but comes with the pieces to convert the front to 5 on 4 ½ disc brakes and a few other odds and ends like the bumpers, grills and trim.

Now that I have this car, I’m seriously thinking that I’ll use it for the mockup instead of taking the BB Valiant apart for now. Once I get everything sorted out I’ll transfer the stuff to the Green car, which should at that point turn into a pretty straight forward swap.

Still looking for an original 392 HEMI/354 Poly passenger car oil pan. They’re center sump. It shouldn’t be too bad to build one if I have to, but would prefer not to.

I’ve got some ideas on the exhaust but that will have to wait until I have the engine at least partially in the car.

 

[mygasser]

no inner fenders and a straight tube axle will help with clearance, just saying
neil.

 

[Mike P 52]

LOL Yeah Neil the thought fleetingly crossed my mind but it would definitely destroy any illusion be being inconspicuous.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Been a week of collecting parts and information.



My friend at the machine shop and I went halves on a 55 331 Hemi a while back figuring we would probably turn it and make a few bucks. We pulled the heads to verify bore size (it’s standard) and set it aside till a buyer comes along. Note to self……. “storing” parts at a machine shop is not necessarily the best solution.


]

View attachment 1716123310Parts Pile[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


Anyway he got it on a stand for me, and I’ll finish the teardown next week and just bring the bare block and a couple of heads over to my shop for mock up.



]View attachment 1716123311MU 331[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr


I’ll also be borrowing a 46 RH/RE case and Overdrive housing from a friend at the transmission shop sometime next week.

At some point I’m going to want a stock hood, heater, maybe a trunk lid (rather than repairing the hole for the power cut off switch) and probably other miscellaneous pieces. I went and looked at another 68 Valiant I’d passed on earlier and decided it would be handy to have around so I bought it. There’s no motor or transmission and a couple of front replacement floor pans are just screwed in but overall it’s solid and pretty straight. Added plus it has a clear title which I transferred this Friday. The only real difference between the 2 cars when they were new is the Green car came out of Detroit and the red car was assembled in the LA plant. Another plus is I found both cars within 5 miles from where I live.



]View attachment 17161233121968 PC[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/153889607@N08/]M Patterson[/url], on Flickr



The seller had originally intended to build it as a race car, but ended up finding a Nova instead so this one went up for sale. At least I saved it from a SB Chevy swap. It’s a small bolt pattern car but comes with the pieces to convert the front to 5 on 4 ½ disc brakes and a few other odds and ends like the bumpers, grills and trim.

Now that I have this car, I’m seriously thinking that I’ll use it for the mockup instead of taking the BB Valiant apart for now. Once I get everything sorted out I’ll transfer the stuff to the Green car, which should at that point turn into a pretty straight forward swap.

Still looking for an original 392 HEMI/354 Poly passenger car oil pan. They’re center sump. It shouldn’t be too bad to build one if I have to, but would prefer not to.

I’ve got some ideas on the exhaust but that will have to wait until I have the engine at least partially in the car.

Flat tops = truck motor! 7.5:1.

 

[HemiDenny]

probably do not want to hear it....but I would cash-in that pile at the local scrapper, buy a crate 408 Magnum, insert it into that lil' Dart and never look back.

just my humble opinion....yours can and may vary.

 

[Mike P 52]

"......Flat tops = truck motor! 7.5:1....."

Yep, that's what the casting numbers say. Like I said it's a builder. When people find out that 392 are harder to find and a lot more expensive when you do come across them they become more open to the smaller engines.

".....
probably do not want to hear it....but I would cash-in that pile at the local scrapper, buy a crate 408 Magnum, insert it into that lil' Dart and never look back.

just my humble opinion....yours can and may vary......"

Denny at some point I may wish I'd followed your advice, but not ready to throw in the towel yet.