1969 ~ 440 'Cuda 'M-Code' vs. COPO #9561 Camaro

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69 Cuda 440

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January 1969

Both 'Musclecars' were released as 1969 mid-year additions.

69' 440 'Cuda {440/375 HP - 'M-Code'}

69' COPO Camaro #9561 {427/425 HP - L-72}

OK, lets play...........
 
i found on research that a M-code cuda was 3,740 pounds and a Camaro was 3,250.

so more importantly than that 490 pounds i would give the camaro the advantage because it has its weight distributed over the car more evenly than the cuda which has majority of its weight over the front wheels which makes it a traction nitemare.

am i on the right track ?
 
I'm not a Chevy guy, but the Camaro should eat that choked up 440 for breakfast.
 
RaniDart70 said:
i found on research that a M-code cuda was 3,740 pounds and a Camaro was 3,250.

so more importantly than that 490 pounds i would give the camaro the advantage because it has its weight distributed over the car more evenly than the cuda which has majority of its weight over the front wheels which makes it a traction nitemare.

am i on the right track ?
Click to expand...

Ms. Rani,

Those are not 'correct' shipping weight numbers..........

1969 440 'Cuda..........Shipping Weight = #3279 lbs.
 
8.74 lbs/HP versus 7.65 lbs/HP.... yeah. Not sure what either car came with for rubber, but my money's on the Camaro for this one.
 
822 of the COPO 9561 L-72 units were built, all 4-speeds.
An additional 193 automatic units were built, Total of 1015.
 
Most of them ran 11.80's. Would be
nhra classed SS/C then SS/D.
First race for a ZL-1,AHRA Winternationals, January 69'.
 
I hate to say it but that COPO Camaro is going to eat the M code 'cuda 100% off the show room floor. If the 'cuda is "fixed" with headers and better traction it may be closer. I wasn't quite born yet but M code 'cudas from what I have read in original road tests posted very poor 1/4 mile times for their potential. I remember them being in the 14 second range. A COPO should be low 13's high 12's.
 
I'll take this baby over the cuda any day, and i've had mopar muscle since 16yo 30 years ago:sad7:
 

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EL5DEMON340 said:
Most of them ran 11.80's. Would be
nhra classed SS/C then SS/D.
First race for a ZL-1,AHRA Winternationals, January 69'.
Click to expand...

No,

The COPO #9561 Camaro was an L-72 'All Cast Iron' 427/425 HP.

Shipping Weights

1969 NHRA

* 1969 - 440 'Cuda 'M-Code' {440/375 HP}
* Base Weight = #3279 ~ 375 HP = 8.74 Wt/Hp

* Stock Class....... C/SA...................(8.50 to 8.99 Wt/Hp}
* Super Stock...... SS/GA.................(8.50 to 8.99 Wt/Hp}

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

* 1969 - COPO Camaro #9561 L-72 {427/425 HP}
* Base Weight = #3383 ~ 425 HP = 7.96 Wt/Hp

* Stock Class.......A/S or A/SA.........{7.50 to 7.99 Wt/Hp}
* Super Stock......SS/E or SS/EA......{7.50 to 7.99 Wt/Hp}
 
:violent1::violent1::angry7::angry7::wav::wave::wave::lurk::lurk::thumbrig::thumblef::protest::protest::protest::wack::wack:
 
9561 Camaro, 1969 427/425hp "L-72" engine This deleted RPO L78 and added RPO L72, along with RPO ZL-2 (cowl hood), RPO V48 (heavy duty 4-core radiator), and RPO F41 (high performance suspension w/special springs/shocks).
 
Correct the on the ID #'s.

With both cars set up for 1969 Stock Class {Automatic} the 69' COPO Camaro {A/SA}
had many more advantages than the 69' 440 'Cuda {C/SA}

But, the '69 440 'Cuda was approximately #200 lbs. lighter than the COPO Camaro
with the TH-400.
 
I'm not liking it, but I will give the upper hand to the Camero COPO.
Could anyone order a COPO from any Chevrolet dealer?
Was the M-code Cuda as hard to get or easier.
I kind of view the COPO's as the HEMI Darts/Cuda's of the time.
If it was a COPO agaisnt HEMI A-bodies, then give me the MoPar evey time.
 
mikedevore said:
I'm not liking it, but I will give the upper hand to the Camero COPO.
Could anyone order a COPO from any Chevrolet dealer?
Was the M-code Cuda as hard to get or easier.
I kind of view the COPO's as the HEMI Darts/Cuda's of the time.
If it was a COPO agaisnt HEMI A-bodies, then give me the MoPar evey time.
Click to expand...
if they ran in s/s d or s/s e, they had to run heads up w/ the hemi`s. as I remember, the hemi`s were class killers back then. ask me how I know!-----------mike , how`d u do at the race u went to,instead of coming to the mopar meet?---------bob
 
Semi final in one class & quarters in the other class.
Made a little money.
Heading to Crandall Tx. on Thanksgiving weekend, going to take the new car out.
 
Mike,

On the 69' 440 'Cuda

They didn't hit the scene until January 1969, and only 344 'Automatic Only' cars
were produced.

Advertised as the 'Cuda 440 Special'.
Drum Brakes, and available with 3.55 Gears {optional 3.91}.

We all knew they were useless in Stock Class {C/SA} with 7" Slicks {Maximum Width},
as they couldn't hook up.

And they produced so few, and many guys wanted to 'save them' instead of Drag Racing
them, as they were 'a rarely seen fish'.

Fenderwell Headers, were the only tubes available, so you had to hack up the inner-fenderwells,
which many {including me} did not want to do.

1969 NHRA National Record...........C/SA...... 12.02 @ 114.12 MPH

In 'C/SA' back in the day, you could get the 69' 440 'Cuda down to around 12.15's @ 113 MPH with 7" Slicks
with an 'NHRA Legal Stock' car.
 
My cousin had driven a M-code Cuda' in 1969 new, he said all it wanted to do was spin the tires.
Thats why he bought the 340 Swinger instead. It seemed to be a better balanced pkg & it also was cheaper. It was kinda plain, 3.91 gears & a 4-speed & cost less than 3K.
Afterall, he was moving up from a 1960 Dart.
 
Copo could be ordered by any dealer that knew the codes to do so but most didn't know about them. Now a copo is a good bet in the race with it all iron block etc, however if it was a ZL1 model with its aluminum block etc would walk all over the Cuda. ZL1=all the power of a big block with the weight of a small block.
 
Stock vs. Stock ~ Automatic vs. Automatic

The COPO Camaro with the L-72 was a bit too much for the 440 'Cuda.

But, if you were willing to hack up the inner-fenderwells and install a set of Hooker Headers,
throw on a set of 67' 440 Hi-Po Cylinder Heads, and a Max-Wedge type Solid Lifter Camshaft.

Then, you'd have a race - with a 4.10 Sure-Grip 440 'Cuda vs. 4.10 Posi-Traction COPO Camaro.
 
My question is, why did these COPO's not give the special run of HEMI A-bodies a challenge.
I know its off topic, but were the COPO's in a different class & not matched up with them.
Too young to know about it. LOL
 
mikedevore said:
My question is, why did these COPO's not give the special run of HEMI A-bodies a challenge.
I know its off topic, but were the COPO's in a different class & not matched up with them.
Too young to know about it. LOL
Click to expand...

Mike,

Are you talking about the ZL-1 "All-Aluminum" 427 COPO Camaro's.
 
I was in a copo years back. the guy scared the living **** out of me on a straight road. The rear tires couldn't have lasted him a month. He would never Race anyone he just took them for scary rides. Very potent car right off the show room floor. He got it from a New York dealer. Color was Dark green. Looked plain jane.

My money is on the Camaro. I've been in both. the RPM's out of that thing were unbelievable. Made you want to keep your feet back against the seat. My R/T was more impressive then the M code Dart. The Dart spun the **** out of the tires also but once it hooked it didn't have nothing on the top. I would say the Camaro's MPH was much higher?
 
mikedevore said:
yep
Click to expand...

Mike,

The 427 'ZL-1' Aluminum Block was 'sooooo' expensive, and they weren't
in it for the 'Long Run'.

They would come apart under heavy use.

Only a few guys ran them in 1969
* Bill 'Grumpy' Jenkins
* Motion Performance
* Dick Harrell
* Nickey Chevrolet

In 1969, in 'SS/C' they were a force, until Arlen Vanke crushed the
National Record with his 1965 Plymouth Belvedere Race Hemi.
 
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