1971 Dart Swinger Worm Gear Adjustment

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Dave Haertel

Dave Haertel

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Charleston, SC
Some background on the car, it's a 1971 Dart Swinger, originally a slant 6 car, now has a 340. I purchased the car about a month ago and immediately had to do some front end work to it and so I've replaced everything major under the front end with the exception of the torsion bars, so that's new shocks, ball joints, tie rods, idler arms, shocks and tires.

That said I've still got 3 to 4 inches of play in the wheel. When running down the road if I don't make any movements it'll track straight but trying to make an adjustment one way or the other and the car wants to move quick.

Doing some research and found that, as a long shot I can adjust the worm gear(s) on this power steering gearbox and that could get rid of a lot of that play.

So, on my first attempt, I took out the battery and the battery tray but couldn't get a standard size box wrench with enough room to fit onto the adjustment nut, so I'm not even sure what size that nut is. I'm fine with going to pick up a set of stubby box end wrenches but I can't even find out what size it is, to make sure the set has the wrench I need. The headers barely offer enough clearance to get the screwdriver down to make the adjustment once I free up the adjustment nut. Does anyone know what size that adjustment nut should be?

Car is pretty much not drive-able at this point because of the play in the wheel. If I need to replace the gearbox and the steering shaft knuckle that's fine I'll bite the bullet and do it but this seems to be a possible solution, if I can find the right wrenches. Since I just bought the car from a reseller who just bought it to sell it, I don't have any frame of reference as to what kind of issues the previous owner was having with it.
 
Pretty sure that's a 5/8 nut.
Center the wheels, loosen the nut and work the steering shaft back and forth by hand while you lightly tighten the adjuster screw just until it stops moving easily.
Any more than that and you could end up with a bind up in the center.
This may need to be done again after you get it all tightened back up and turn the steering lock to lock.
The slotted screw should turn really easy, so not a ton of worry about getting to it.
You should be able to even turn it using a nickel or other coin.
Be sure to hold it while you tighten the lock nut again.

3-4 inches is a lot to try to adjust out and have a useable box, but maybe.
Start there and see what happens.
 
TrailBeast said:
Pretty sure that's a 5/8 nut.
Center the wheels, loosen the nut and work the steering shaft back and forth by hand while you lightly tighten the adjuster screw just until it stops moving easily.
Any more than that and you could end up with a bind up in the center.
This may need to be done again after you get it all tightened back up and turn the steering lock to lock.
The slotted screw should turn really easy, so not a ton of worry about getting to it.
You should be able to even turn it using a nickel or other coin.
Be sure to hold it while you tighten the lock nut again.

3-4 inches is a lot to try to adjust out and have a useable box, but maybe.
Start there and see what happens.
Click to expand...

Thanks, it's probably a long shot for sure, but at this point I've sunk quite a bit into the front end already and just hoping to get it safe to drive and stem the bleeding for a little while. Then I can plan for the gearbox replacement.

I read somewhere else that 5/8 was the size and I believe I even heard that on a YouTube video somewhere as well, so I'll start there. I went out and bought a set of stubby box end wrenches so hopefully that can get me in there with enough room to get this done. I didn't want to have to unbolt the power steering lines to get this done but they were certainly in the way with a standard box end wrench.

One thing though, most tutorials I saw just said go 1/4 turn each time but you suggested tightening until it gives resistance, but what if this is more than 1/4 turn? Is it still safe to do that or should I try it in 1/4 turn stages? Also, should the car be on the ground while doing this to stop the wheels from actually turning after the adjustment has been done?

Thanks for getting back to me.
 
Dave Haertel said:
Thanks, it's probably a long shot for sure, but at this point I've sunk quite a bit into the front end already and just hoping to get it safe to drive and stem the bleeding for a little while. Then I can plan for the gearbox replacement.

I read somewhere else that 5/8 was the size and I believe I even heard that on a YouTube video somewhere as well, so I'll start there. I went out and bought a set of stubby box end wrenches so hopefully that can get me in there with enough room to get this done. I didn't want to have to unbolt the power steering lines to get this done but they were certainly in the way with a standard box end wrench.

One thing though, most tutorials I saw just said go 1/4 turn each time but you suggested tightening until it gives resistance, but what if this is more than 1/4 turn? Is it still safe to do that or should I try it in 1/4 turn stages? Also, should the car be on the ground while doing this to stop the wheels from actually turning after the adjustment has been done?

Thanks for getting back to me.
Click to expand...

I think the quarter turn at a shot is probably to help keep someone from over doing it.
If you center the wheels and then turn it just till it stops while twisting back and forth on the steering shaft (I do things with no helper) so that's how I have always done it.
Then like I said full turns of the steering wheel, center it and do it again.
What you don't want is for it to feel like it's binding right as it crosses over the center of it's travel (somewhere about where the wheels are straight.)

Wheels off the ground is probably best so you can feel a bind easier, but I have never done it that way. (maybe because I am so familiar with doing it and what feels about right.)

Not sure if you meant the wheels turn by themselves, but if that is the case there is an adjustment for that also.
Google "Mopar wheels turn by themselves" and you will find it easy enough.
 
Ok, so as an update, the adjustment set screw and the nut are absolutely fused together, they both turn together and I couldn't get them to separate, not sure exactly how big of a problem this is considering what I found up in the steering column.

I'm fairly certain that the play is in the steering column and more so, the bottom part of the shaft, when I grabbed it to start to twist it there, I felt all kinds of slop in that whole thing, in all directions. I also noticed a bolt run all the way through the outer column and the lower shaft (picture attached), which I don't think is supposed to be there, maybe some kind of rigged up way of trying to fix the slop issue.

So, now I have to wonder, since that sector shaft adjuster is pretty much fused up and I have slop in the lower shaft, what exactly do I replace? The whole thing from column all the way to the gearbox? Or should I just try and replace the lower unit in the steering column since that appears to be where all the slop is now? Or is it even possible to just replace that lower unit in the column? Does this mean entire new steering column?

The biggest problem I have here is that, in my area (Charleston, SC), there aren't many places that employ quality mechanics that can work on older cars. Most places I've called to check on this type of work flat out say they can't do it and still be able to guarantee the work. I don't think I'm up to replacing the entire steering column at this point by myself, so I'm in a bit of a bind here. Any other suggestions?


steering_shaft.png
 
adriver said:
If that thing is 40 years old, I'd pull it an do this.
It needs it.
These probably should be stickies.

Manual Steering Box...assistance needed...

Manual Steering Box
Click to expand...
It's a power steering box, is the rebuild way more complicated? Also, as I mentioned above, the sector shaft adjustment bolt and set screw are fused together, do these come in a rebuild kit? If it's out of the car I might be able to heat them up and separate them, but I tried for several hours while it was in the car and couldn't get them apart.
 
Dave Haertel said:
It's a power steering box, is the rebuild way more complicated? Also, as I mentioned above, the sector shaft adjustment bolt and set screw are fused together, do these come in a rebuild kit? If it's out of the car I might be able to heat them up and separate them, but I tried for several hours while it was in the car and couldn't get them apart.
Click to expand...

Sorry, my bad.
You said it was power steering.
I've just seen so many steering problem threads that I'm trigger happy.
(We don't seem to have an "embarrassed" emoji)
Ever think about getting rid of that "boat anchor" between your front wheels?
I've done it on both my A bodies.
Sure looks crowded in your picture around those headers.

Power steering?
olasky_83.jpg
 
What boat anchor do you mean? Swapping power steering for manual?

At this point I'm not sure what to do, my wife will probably drive the car also, not as much as I do but I think the power steering has to stay. This is intended to be my daily driver so I'm not looking for steering performance like today's vehicles, I just want to be able to keep it straight down the road and make turns accordingly, maybe the occasional donut or two ;)

I think replacing that steering column might be a bigger job than I can tackle but without quality shops in the area, I may not have a choice. Where should I begin my search for a replacement column? Or can they be rebuilt at the bottom?
 
Ok, so I know when to throw in the towel, and I took it to a shop on a recommendation from one of the FABO members here in town and am waiting on their report. One of the "old timers" (I say that with much affection, believe me) thought lower control arm bushing(s) even before I finished describing all my symptoms. If that's the case, I'll be happy because that is something I feel like I can accomplish. That does bring up another question though.

Do I stick with stock control arms and just replace the bushings since the ball joints I believe to be still in good shape? Or do I pull the trigger on a modern tubular upper and lower replacement with coil overs? Any disadvantages to putting on something like the QA1 tubular bolt ons with the coil over conversion? There's what I'd consider to be decent new rubber on the car, 215x55x17, someone in another post mentioned that depending on what type of tires you run would make a much bigger difference in road feel/handling.

Any thoughts on this?
 
Ok, so I heard back this afternoon from the shop and as suspected, the bottom of the steering column and the bottom shaft is completely hacked up and basically junk. The joint at the end that connects to the input shaft of the steering gearbox is also junk and not correct for either the box or the steering column, so basically it's a rebuild of the steering column, a new joint and see if that solves the problem.

Lower control arm bushings are also shot, but those I can handle on my own, so I'm not as concerned about that. Speedometer shows 77K so I'm assuming original bushings so they'll probably be a ***** to press out and if I can't get them out, I figure I can run those to a shop and have them pressed in and out for a little bit, certainly a lot less than having these guys do that as a full job.
 
Dave Haertel said:
Ok, so I heard back this afternoon from the shop and as suspected, the bottom of the steering column and the bottom shaft is completely hacked up and basically junk. The joint at the end that connects to the input shaft of the steering gearbox is also junk and not correct for either the box or the steering column, so basically it's a rebuild of the steering column, a new joint and see if that solves the problem.

Lower control arm bushings are also shot, but those I can handle on my own, so I'm not as concerned about that. Speedometer shows 77K so I'm assuming original bushings so they'll probably be a ***** to press out and if I can't get them out, I figure I can run those to a shop and have them pressed in and out for a little bit, certainly a lot less than having these guys do that as a full job.
Click to expand...

Talk to Tony @whitepunkonnitro and see if he can hook you up.
That is what I would do.
 
Dave Haertel said:
What boat anchor do you mean? Swapping power steering for manual?

At this point I'm not sure what to do, my wife will probably drive the car also, not as much as I do but I think the power steering has to stay. This is intended to be my daily driver so I'm not looking for steering performance like today's vehicles, I just want to be able to keep it straight down the road and make turns accordingly, maybe the occasional donut or two ;)

I think replacing that steering column might be a bigger job than I can tackle but without quality shops in the area, I may not have a choice. Where should I begin my search for a replacement column? Or can they be rebuilt at the bottom?
Click to expand...

Ah.
I see you have posted.
I missed them. So, you are going to need to do some steering work anyway?

1. I myself would not try and rebuild a power box. Sounds messy.
2. I myself would have no trouble disassembling and freshening up a manual box.
Been there and done that. See links above. Even a cave man can do it.
3 The difference between a manual and power column is only the length. The manual is longer. BUT, all you have to do to a hook a shorter power column to a manual box is lengthen it buy pulling the inner tub more out of the outer tube. ( I ASSUME a 71 has a collapsible column like later ones do).
4. Couplers are available. Seem like there is even an "adapter" one which is longer to make the change I've outlined in number 3 here. Although I've never had to use one because I just lengthen the power column to work.
5. A boat anchor is the power box. It is heavy steel and very much heavier than the light weight aluminium manual box.
6. By changing you will eliminate unnecessary weight over you front wheels and get rid of belts and leaks for good. The car WILL handle better.
7. In 1971 people THOUGHT power steering was the cats wiskers since it was a new thing. A sales item. A luxury item. I contend these lightweight cars do not need it. I have no trouble driving one every day. Turning the wheel when the car is stationary is the only thing to consider. Otherwise, there is no issue.
 
Dave Haertel said:
Ok, so I know when to throw in the towel, and I took it to a shop on a recommendation from one of the FABO members here in town and am waiting on their report. One of the "old timers" (I say that with much affection, believe me) thought lower control arm bushing(s) even before I finished describing all my symptoms. If that's the case, I'll be happy because that is something I feel like I can accomplish. That does bring up another question though.

Do I stick with stock control arms and just replace the bushings since the ball joints I believe to be still in good shape? Or do I pull the trigger on a modern tubular upper and lower replacement with coil overs? Any disadvantages to putting on something like the QA1 tubular bolt ons with the coil over conversion? There's what I'd consider to be decent new rubber on the car, 215x55x17, someone in another post mentioned that depending on what type of tires you run would make a much bigger difference in road feel/handling.

Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

On this point.
Rebuild the whole front end.
Or you MAY have to be back there.
Not worth it.
Pay for alignment twice?
(see my new DYI thread).:eek:
Fastrax review and alignment questions for the pros.
I buy my hard parts locally so I can see what comes in the MOOG box.
One never knows origin these days.
If I don't like them from China or something, it's easier than shipping.
I would stay with the stock upper control arms if you already have disk brakes
Just because I'm thrifty and that is good enough for me.
"Rubber".
I use polygrahite bushing in all points except the brake strut rods.
I use rubber there. I just don't like the way poly does not compress AT ALL there.
I polygraphite in the LCA and have no issues with long use.
Some people prefer stock rubber though.
 
adriver said:
On this point.
Rebuild the whole front end.
Or you MAY have to be back there.
Not worth it.
Pay for alignment twice?
(see my new DYI thread).:eek:
Fastrax review and alignment questions for the pros.
I buy my hard parts locally so I can see what comes in the MOOG box.
One never knows origin these days.
If I don't like them from China or something, it's easier than shipping.
I would stay with the stock upper control arms if you already have disk brakes
Just because I'm thrifty and that is good enough for me.
"Rubber".
I use polygrahite bushing in all points except the brake strut rods.
I use rubber there. I just don't like the way poly does not compress AT ALL there.
I polygraphite in the LCA and have no issues with long use.
Some people prefer stock rubber though.
Click to expand...

Thanks for getting back. If I choose to completely rebuild the front end a lot of the work already done I'll be paying twice for (idler arms, tie rods, shocks, both sets of ball joints). My thoughts initially were to buy new tubular upper and lowers and do the coil over conversion all at once (I know that's also replacing ball joints twice but at least the rest is still there). Is there any compatibility issues with doing that? Is it worth doing that? Meaning, will the performance be better if the steering column and the connecting knuckle are replaced and I stay with the power steering, but yet go to a coil over tubular upper and lower set?

The only problem I have with going to a manual steering box is that my wife will drive the car also and I'm not sure about her ability to handle it. If say she's sitting at a stop light, I know that once you start rolling it's much easier but that's a little bit different driving than a car with power steering, you generally have to give yourself more space before you get into a turn to allow for the car to start moving and then negotiate the turn. Not impossible obviously but still something to consider. I want her to be able to drive the car also, and I just don't want her to have any reservations about taking it out when she wants to. Bigger rubber also, these are 17" wheels and 255x55 so that's going to make it a little bit harder with manual as well, won't it?

Just trying to consider all angles here that's all. Thanks very much for the advice, it's definitely appreciated.
 
So you've already got some "new" parts on there?
All the ball joints?
Just replace the rubber stuff then if you haven't already.
I mean you are going to have to take the LCAs off anyway, right?
The only caveat there is are they good parts that someone put on there?
Do a search on here and I think you will find people complaining about premature failure of junknees ball joints.
If it were me and I was having to take the LCAs off and there was any doubt I'd put some MOOG on there.
You mention coil over?
I"m the wrong person for that.
In the first place, I'll call you a heretic.
Seriously, I really don't think there is any overriding reason to do away with a torsion bar suspension. (Pun intended)
It was light years ahead of it's time and there is nothing more surefooted.
Especially with the factory sway bar.
(I mean, why not get a Mustang with cracked shock towers.)
Now, if someone is building a Hemi Dart and the want to close the hood without cutting a hole in it that might be another thing. (Been done)
A coil over with rack and pinion might be necessary to drop the engine.

You probably haven't seen this.
A torsion bar car.
Just like the T/A and AAR.

One Lap of America in a Plymouth Valiant
 
adriver said:
So you've already got some "new" parts on there?
All the ball joints?
Just replace the rubber stuff then if you haven't already.
I mean you are going to have to take the LCAs off anyway, right?
The only caveat there is are they good parts that someone put on there?
Do a search on here and I think you will find people complaining about premature failure of junknees ball joints.
If it were me and I was having to take the LCAs off and there was any doubt I'd put some MOOG on there.
You mention coil over?
I"m the wrong person for that.
In the first place, I'll call you a heretic.
Seriously, I really don't think there is any overriding reason to do away with a torsion bar suspension. (Pun intended)
It was light years ahead of it's time and there is nothing more surefooted.
Especially with the factory sway bar.
(I mean, why not get a Mustang with cracked shock towers.)
Now, if someone is building a Hemi Dart and the want to close the hood without cutting a hole in it that might be another thing. (Been done)
A coil over with rack and pinion might be necessary to drop the engine.

You probably haven't seen this.
A torsion bar car.
Just like the T/A and AAR.

One Lap of America in a Plymouth Valiant
Click to expand...

Ok, so point taken as far as the coil overs go. I don't mind just doing the bushings on the control arms, far as I know the lowers are the ones that took most of the beating. A lot on this car is complete unknown, since I bought the car from someone who basically lied pretty much every time he opened his mouth, so I'm having to try and rely on a shop here in town that actually was pretty highly rated.

The parts that are in there I have the receipts for but not sure I was given the brands (these were shop installed), so I'll have to see if I can get the information off the parts, everything was installed less than a month ago so there shouldn't be any road grime or grease on them and should be easy to see.
 
Dave Haertel said:
Ok, so point taken as far as the coil overs go. I don't mind just doing the bushings on the control arms, far as I know the lowers are the ones that took most of the beating. A lot on this car is complete unknown, since I bought the car from someone who basically lied pretty much every time he opened his mouth, so I'm having to try and rely on a shop here in town that actually was pretty highly rated.

The parts that are in there I have the receipts for but not sure I was given the brands (these were shop installed), so I'll have to see if I can get the information off the parts, everything was installed less than a month ago so there shouldn't be any road grime or grease on them and should be easy to see.
Click to expand...

Uppers control arm bushings probably too.
If the previous owner didn't do the lowers, I'm wondering about those.
 
adriver said:
Uppers control arm bushings probably too.
If the previous owner didn't do the lowers, I'm wondering about those.
Click to expand...

Ok, no biggie, if I'm tearing all the lower apart I'll grab the uppers also. No reason not to you're absolutely right on that.

Also, GREAT write up on the valiant. That would probably be a grinding but a ton of fun.
 
adriver said:
Ask your mechanic if he would have any problem installing these instead of rubber.
Nothing wrong with rubber though.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ens-5-3112g/overview/year/1971/make/dodge/model/dart
Click to expand...

Looks good to me, I'll be the one doing the control arms so that's not a big deal. I don't have a press, so if the hand tool press doesn't work, I'll just take the arms to someone to have them pressed out. I should be able to press them back in no problem with the hand kit.
 
Dave Haertel said:
Looks good to me, I'll be the one doing the control arms so that's not a big deal. I don't have a press, so if the hand tool press doesn't work, I'll just take the arms to someone to have them pressed out. I should be able to press them back in no problem with the hand kit.
Click to expand...

May I suggest the best 130 dollars you will ever spend.
I only paid 99 years ago.
Paid for itself over and over again.
I go so tired of pounding on things which is wrong on many levels.
And you can adapt this to larger things if necessary.
There is a 6 ton bench top version too.
80 dollars.

12 ton A-Frame Industrial Heavy Duty Floor Shop Press
 
adriver said:
May I suggest the best 130 dollars you will ever spend.
I only paid 99 years ago.
Paid for itself over and over again.
I go so tired of pounding on things which is wrong on many levels.
And you can adapt this to larger things if necessary.

12 ton A-Frame Industrial Heavy Duty Floor Shop Press
Click to expand...

Wow, I had no idea they really weren't that expensive. My wife will of course call it an ugly monstrosity but damn, I've spent 130 bucks on a LOT worse things in my life haha.
 
Dave Haertel said:
Wow, I had no idea they really weren't that expensive. My wife will of course call it an ugly monstrosity but damn, I've spent 130 bucks on a LOT worse things in my life haha.
Click to expand...

Save one cocked seal from being bent trying to put it in and it's worth the not cussing.
Funny how you can press a seal that is a little cocked and it' s OK, will go on in.
But pounding it never works.
 
adriver said:
Save one cocked seal from being bent trying to put it in and it's worth the not cussing.
Funny how you can press a seal that is a little cocked and it' s OK, will go on in.
But pounding it never works.
Click to expand...

Lol, I hear ya there, and it would be a very nice and relaxing repair if I wasn't cussing and feeling pain as well.
 
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