318 blues?

-
myasylum

myasylum

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
1,740
Reaction score
4
Location
Las Vegas, NV
I have a /6 but found a 318 motor which is fine for now. I just want some power with a good V-8 sound. The guy said it has "Swirl Port heads" I'm unsure of what those are? But those were pretty new, it it smokes once in a while, but not all the time. he said he thinks it's a "sticking ring", because the heads are fairly new. Is this going to be a big issue if I get this motor?
What would it cost to fix?
 
Well you can try upper end lubricants but you'll probably have to tear into it.
Swirl ports create more turbulence mixing of the fuel which helps response at lower rpms but not really a high performance/race thing in my opinion [hurts ultimate flow IMO]
More of a truck towing thing but other might disagree. And thats ok.
 
In my opinion, to fix an issue such as bad rings, you would be better off to go ahead with a full rebuild of the engine than to just replace the rings and "fix" the problem. Swirl port (302) heads are a great addition to a 318, they help keep the compression of the engine up with minimal work. Either way I say to tear the engine down as far as to replace a set of rings a full rebuild is the better way to go. Then, you know everything is fresh in the engine and don't have to worry about the possible shortcuts someone else took and didn't tell you about.
 
I too would say tear it down. if your on a budget see what should be replaced and not just what needs to be replaced. just putting on a set of rings when you could also have other bad parts is cheap and easy but not really budget smart if you end up with a spun bearing 6 months later. besides places like summit, PAW, and jegs have inexpensive kits that can fill your needs on the cheap.
 
Tear it down and do a budget rebuild with new pistons. Ethier the KB series zero deck flat tops or later year 318 pistons. Keep the swirl port heads. There an excellent addition and excellent for racing done for many years now. The swirl port head should be the 302 heads.

Once you get that done, install your 4bbl and headers with the new performance cam you want.
 
If the swirl ports were important they would incorporated that into there w2,w5,w8,w9,and p series, so I don't believe that statement holds water.
Technically speaking even the old heads have some swirl going on.
Good luck.
 
So you beileve the swirl ports are inferior to older heads?
After all, he did say
I just want some power with a good V-8 sound.
Click to expand...
 
Every thing's app. specific so I'm not making that statement.
I will say that swirl will be given up to obtain flow to it's 'limits' with that particular design.
I will also say from experience that you will hit water more easily with the newer production swirl heads then with the older head in the short turn, which is the reason I would choose the old head modified for max flow or w2 for that matter, which both have a longer short turn to work with, not to veer off corse too much.
The exhaust port of the newer prod. head has a way better shape and is not so sensitive to laying back the floor as the old heads are, but if you are going to modify the ports you need know and have experience when doing so in the first place, at that it wouldn't be an issue.

For his app these heads will work fine, but he asked for an opinion of these heads overall and it's open from there.
 
especially in modified form.Also,it doesnt take much with them to make a 318 pretty quick,and still driveable.Now im not talking 12 second quarter mile times,without other mods to the engine,but much quicker than stock by far
 
tobysoldblue said:
especially in modified form.Also,it doesnt take much with them to make a 318 pretty quick,and still driveable.Now im not talking 12 second quarter mile times,without other mods to the engine,but much quicker than stock by far
Click to expand...

Thats in relation/proportion to the cubic inches you have.
If you put 360 heads on a 318 they will produce more hp per cubic inch then they would on a 360.
Find out for your self!
I have a feeling we might as well be asking what is the best color.
 
wow wow.

I say back up.

Knowone has asked the most basic question. How much is the engine guna cost? You might be able to buy a good runner that doesn't need a rebuild for the same amount.

also, you say its going into a /6er, you know your guna need a tranny too, and exhaust, and mounts. For the costs of rebuilding an engine that your going to buy, I would just stick with the /6 and re-build it. Otherwise buy a engine in good shape. and if your looking for power go with a 360, but if power doesn't matter, and your just after the sound of a V 8, it doesn't matter what engine you choose. I wouldn't swap a /6 for a 318. thats just me.

sounds like your on a budget...price out the hole package, not just the engine.

Phil
 
myasylum,
You might be better off looking into some junk yards around you for a better deal, or maybe some one on here in your area might have some thing. Getting that 318 might end up being a project for your project. If your looking for something to go through and rebuild cheaply and you can get that 318 for a good price. A stock rebuild ( or wise choice of parts ) and those swirl heads could be a nice runner with some good power. Dollar for dollar you might want to just look for a 360.
 
I was gonna do a quick budget rebuild on my 273 like Rumblefish said. Then I took the block to the machinist who measured .012 cylinder taper. He said a cheap rebuild might last 10000 - 15000 before it starts to smoke again. I bit the bullet and did it right. Just make sure you're not throwing away your money$$$!
 
Don't spend to much on the 318... it wasn't long ago someone was giving a running 318 away. About 4 months ago there was another fellow giving one away he just wanted someone to come pick it up. It was funny no one would come get it and he was like "Its free for petes sake!"
 
Okay, yeah you can say that, but don't dawg the 318. It's still a good engine and just because every tom, dick, and harry puts a 340/360 in their a-body, doesn't mean he has to. I'm putting a 318 in my Dart Sport and I anticipate at least mid 12's out of it and it will still be a street car 90% of the time. That's not to say that there's not other mods that have to be done to the car to get that done, but it will still be a 318 none-the-less.

Now, I will agree you can put basically the same parts and money into a 360 and get more power out of it, but I have seen way too many times that someone chooses a 318 and they get ripped apart on here because someone else thinks they need a 360. Beside that, if he already has the 318 then why spend EXTRA money to buy the 360 that he doesn't have when he's not lookin for tenths of a second at the track.

All in all, I'm not replying to argue, I still say the 318 will give you all the sound you want depending on the exhaust system chosen and will give you enough power depending on what is done to it to lay you back in the seats. Just keep in mind, that every mod you look into is gonna cost you money and when you decide on what mods to make I would make sure you buy quality parts. You'll be better off in the long run if you do. It is like someone else said, you will also want to take into consideration the WHOLE package here. Converting a /6 car to a V8 car takes mods no matter what size the V8. Mounts will have to swapped, different trannys will have to be put into place, rear end gear ratios will have to be looked at.

You could also make some mods to that /6 to make it run more like a V8, there are numerous power adders that are now out for /6s and more seem to show up all the time. Just a lot of options out there, the main thing is do what YOU want and be happy with it, no matter what anyone else says or thinks.
 
myasylum said:
I have a /6 but found a 318 motor which is fine for now. I just want some power with a good V-8 sound. The guy said it has "Swirl Port heads" I'm unsure of what those are? But those were pretty new, it it smokes once in a while, but not all the time. he said he thinks it's a "sticking ring", because the heads are fairly new. Is this going to be a big issue if I get this motor?
What would it cost to fix?
Click to expand...

It sounds like its a mid 80s 318 with 302 casting heads. I would re-reing the short block, do a valve job to the heads and add a nice cam, intake carb and set of headers. Done, No reason to make it crazy.
 
73DartSport said:
Okay, yeah you can say that, but don't dawg the 318. It's still a good engine and just because every tom, dick, and harry puts a 340/360 in their a-body, doesn't mean he has to. I'm putting a 318 in my Dart Sport and I anticipate at least mid 12's out of it and it will still be a street car 90% of the time. That's not to say that there's not other mods that have to be done to the car to get that done, but it will still be a 318 none-the-less.

I'm not dawging the 318. I am saying that depending on the price of the 318 that he is talking about, he might be able to get an engine that is in better condition, and doesn't need a re-build. You can build up a 318 very well, it has been proven over and over again. It's frusterating to a in-experienced builder to log on here and ask a question, and everyone and there dog is telling them how to spend HIS money, and alot of it to boot. He isn't looking for a race car....at least thats my impression. he isn't wanting to rebuild an engine to get lots of HP out of it. He is looking for a V8 for the sound, and a little added HP. A 318 can do that, SO can a 360, it just depends how much HP he is wanting, and if he want's more HP for his money, than a 360 is the best bet. that is all I am saying. You are makeing a street strip car, HE isn't...big difference.

Now, I will agree you can put basically the same parts and money into a 360 and get more power out of it, but I have seen way too many times that someone chooses a 318 and they get ripped apart on here because someone else thinks they need a 360. Beside that, if he already has the 318 then why spend EXTRA money to buy the 360 that he doesn't have when he's not lookin for tenths of a second at the track.

I don;t think he allready has the 318. his original post says that he can "get" one. So he won't be spending any extra money...and if he buys that 318, and then spends $1500 to rebuild it, he will be spending way more than a $500 running 318/360

All in all, I'm not replying to argue, I still say the 318 will give you all the sound you want depending on the exhaust system chosen and will give you enough power depending on what is done to it to lay you back in the seats. Just keep in mind, that every mod you look into is gonna cost you money and when you decide on what mods to make I would make sure you buy quality parts. You'll be better off in the long run if you do. It is like someone else said, you will also want to take into consideration the WHOLE package here. Converting a /6 car to a V8 car takes mods no matter what size the V8. Mounts will have to swapped, different trannys will have to be put into place, rear end gear ratios will have to be looked at.

I agree that a 318 will be perfect...but I don't think that 318 is a good idea. the /6 advice is a good option too. And that guy that mentioned the "hole package part" must know his stuff. ;)

You could also make some mods to that /6 to make it run more like a V8, there are numerous power adders that are now out for /6s and more seem to show up all the time. Just a lot of options out there, the main thing is do what YOU want and be happy with it, no matter what anyone else says or thinks.
Click to expand...

AdamR said:
It sounds like its a mid 80s 318 with 302 casting heads. I would re-reing the short block, do a valve job to the heads and add a nice cam, intake carb and set of headers. Done, No reason to make it crazy.
Click to expand...

Why rebuild the engine, and set the guy back $1500 + when he could buy a different Running engine in GOOD shape for $500?

Thats not a good way to spend money on a budget.

I agree, this shouldn't turn into another thread of what engine is better, I made one of those threads up because of another poor guy who was asking a simular question as this one, and it turned into a big debate, and his questions didn't get answered.

My final coment will be to the original poster. Consider this befor you do anything. Swaping a /6 for a V8 will set you back anywhere from $1500-$6000. I know its a big jump, but it all depends what you do. are you just going to do the engine and tranny, or are you going to do the Disc brakes, and the rear end as well? also , do you have any conections for buying parts? can you buy a parts car to save money? Are you going to do the Swap yourslelf?
This would be my QUICK brake down list.
$500 engine
$200. Exhaust
$160 Headers
$180 Motor mounts
$300 Tranny
$400 Nickel and dime stuff.

$1740...and thats not considering Labour, Tools, a 4 brl intake and carb if needed. a rear end, and discs. IT adds up fast

It would be around $3500-$4000 if you do the discs and the rear and other goodies.

Closer to $5500 if you have to do the engine rebuild, and all above.

$6,000 +++ if you don't do the work yourself.

Phil
 
Because he asked what to do if he bought the motor in question. He certainly could buy another motor for $500, Or he could re-ring this one for around the same price, (heads were just redone it says) and learn to wrench on his own stuff, plus have the satisfaction of doing it himself.
 
AdamR said:
Because he asked what to do if he bought the motor in question. He certainly could buy another motor for $500, Or he could re-ring this one for around the same price, (heads were just redone it says) and learn to wrench on his own stuff, plus have the satisfaction of doing it himself.
Click to expand...

Just wondering. How often does an engine rebuild take place, and you have to do more than you intended, Or you SHOULD have done mor then one might intend.

prob more often than not.

Phil
 
The swirl port heads were fielded primarily to provide a more complete burn by creating more turbulence in the combustion chamber. These (302) heads also have the smallest combustion chambers of any of production LA heads. For someone who is budget consicious I'd leave the W- type heads and blocks for the racers.

I concur with the concensus here to plan a rebuild of the engine if it is cost effective. It could be a ring, or it could be a valve guide. Look at a basic rebuild for the block. On the heads go with new valve guides and a good 3-angle valve job. This assumes that nothing else is wrong.

I have a 318 w/302 heads, Performer, 625 AFB, and a mild cam in the Demon. I couldn't begin to tell you what I have in it because most of the stuff has been traded for in either other parts or labor.
 
FYI - I grabbed that free 318. I checked it out and it was a police engine - an 87 or 88, it has the 360 heads, and the windage tray main bolts. It was not complete, the valve train, windage tray, dist drive gear, oil pickup, oil pan, valve covers, intake, water pump housing, brackets, pulleys, miscellaneous hardware etc are missing. But ive got the stuff sitting around for it, and what I dont have will come off the engine in my sons car.

The engine is being cleaned up right now. Its going in my sons 87 fury, we are putting a little flat tappet rv cam in it and 4bbl. Should be a perfectly reliable tame motor. It didnt need guides, just a basic valve job, etc., cam bearings, ring lands on the pistons were in spec as were the bores and the pistons, no more than .001 to .002 wear. and bores were straight, a quick hone job, dist drive bushing, polish the crank, new main and rod bearings and its Good to go !

My point ? The deals are out there to be had, just take a look around !

I'd be inclined to get a 360 if you want something a little bigger and dont mind doing the entire rebuild. If you want something temporary, grab one of these later 318's. It doesnt seem that the bores wear much because of the moly rings (I am guessing) that were used in them, allowing for a cheap reliable rebuild, without buying pistons or boring the block. (Watch me be wrong about that !) They also didnt make a lot of power when new which eases the strain/wear on these engines condition. Just a thought !
 
Swirl ports like magnums and 302's will have better power under the curve on a teen than a 360 head,and more torque. 360 head will definitely make more peak h.p,but at the expense of low end driveability and tq.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top