318 vs. 360?

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J

jeeper

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I have a pile of 318's. A couple are real good runners with decent vitals. Here is my question.

Assumming similar set-ups in each engine, what is the performance increase by using the 360 vs. the 318?

Is it the old 1hp per CID rule? Any one with a comparison who has ran both?

Thanks as always for your time and guidance, ROB
 
I ran a warmed up 318 in the 66 for 10 years - excellent engine with good power.
I've run a warmed up 360 for the past 18 years - excellent engine with GREAT power. The 360 just puts a ****-eatin' grin on your face every time you jump on the go pedal. :)
 
No replacement for displacement...

The 318 can be made to run, but if the same effort was put into a 360, it'd run that much harder.
 
I run a 360 that literaly has all the go parts from my 318, cam intake headers, everything else is stock, pistons heads etc, I run the 360 in my dart with a 904 auto that has the lower 2 gears changed for a little better gearing, ran the 318 in a 73 B body that had an overdrive manual tranny, I ran a 3:23 sure grip (same rear in both cars) used 28" tall drag slicks on the 73 B body and I use 24" tall street tires in the rear of the dart, the B body weighed in at more than 3900lbs and had the exhaust off from headers back, the Dart a meager 3150 with full exhaust out the back (2 1/4" dual exhaust). The B body ran a 15.88 in the quarter using ONLY 1st and 2nd gear and slipping the clutch hard off the line (very poor gearing for a heavy weight like that B body), I have run a best 15.34 in the quarter with the Dart which gets piss poor traction AT BEST (seems the gearing and tires I have this settup with allows for HUGE tire shredding :) ) I run a STOCK slant six torque converter behind the 360 and I ran it in Drive (no tach and I didn't want to lunch the engine first time out at the trac) the cam only makes power from about 3000rpm to 6000rpm, where it's actually shifting itself at is roughly 4000 rpm, I haven't even tweaked or tuned on this yet and it is still "straight outa the box" so to speak. I see potential to be mid 14's NO PROBLEM. You tell me, which is the greater power producing engine? No replacement for DISPLACEMENT all other things being equal.
 
I like what I am hearing about the 360's. I know bigger is better but the thought of "tire-shredding torque" sounds good to me.

I became converted to Mopar years ago from a friend of mine with a stock 74 E body. Tired 360, small RV grind and some 4.10's with small tires. It would smoke both tires for a good distance. It changed my mind about the mopar thing and I have not missed my F..d since then.

OK, now to see what deal we can work on the 360.

Thanks for the real world experience, I do appreciate it.

ROB
 
the 360 is just the smart choice... nothing wron with a 318.. they will run but you start ahead what about 40 cubic inches with a 360? can't beat that...
 
My off road trucks run a minimum of 38" tires because they are bigger and make life easier I don't see any reason why the car thing would not be the same........

Ideally I would like to see the car in the lower 13's and still be DD capable if needed.

ROB
 
And 13's is very reasonable and achievable AND still maintain a fairly real world drivability. My wife even gets to drive the dart (not quite the way I DRIVE it, but she drives it and likes it). If I were to bump the compression up and put the late model swirl port heads on and the 750 double pump as opposed to the 600 vacuum I am running I wouldn't see why I couldnt squeeze faster times, I just like the fact that at 8-8.5 to 1 cr that I have makes it easy for me to pull up to (dare I say it) the 87 octane crap gas and it runs just fine on it (and still scoots ta boot). I run race gas just because I like how it smells :)
 
Its not just the cubes...the 360 heads have larger ports and valves, which are a good match for the engine.

It could be argued that the 318 head ports and valves were "conservative" at best from the factory.

The other issue is stroke/bore ratio...the 360 is almost ideal...which in turn creates better incremental returns in the form of torque for each modification.

The teen is not bad...but the 60 is actually a better designed motor than the 340 or the 318 in this area.

If you are looking for a comparison on basic design weaknesses in stock long form...you'd rate a 360 as an "A-", a 340 as a "B+", a 318 as a solid "B", a C 350 Cheb as a "C+" and a Ford 302 Windsor as a "C".........IMHO :)
 
That sounds like a good idea. I had a line on a 360 from one of my students and then it didn't come through. Not sure why, I will check.

One of the other students has a low mileage 400 that he would like to send my way.

Always good and bad being a shop teacher........

ROB
 
I had a 318 in my 66 cuda for 10 years, also... it ran a best of 14.7 with 340 heads on it and 3.23's. - It would not do a burnout!!?!?

I swapped a 360 in it. Mild rebuild, but with a tunnelram. no other changes to the car, and I ran a 12.80 with burnouts galore... DEFINATELY happy with the swap!
 
You must be the purple Cuda guy. My kids and I love that video, although their favorite was "burnout steve" from Austrailia. It is a black Charger. Three years later my kids still ask me to show them the video. I think it was on MOPARTS. Not that we watch burnouts all day, but it helps as an "anticipatory set" as they say in teacher school!

I am definately noticing that no one really prefers a 318.

No I'm wondering about the 400, if a little is good........

Thanks, ROB
 
The 318 is a very good engine and can be made to move. GoodysGotACuda is proof of that. But the same performance principle's and $'s applied from a 318 to a 360 will get you more power and driveability.

FYI...(I'm sure you're already aware of this, but just in case) The 400 you have may be a big block and parts will not interchange with 318 and 360.

BTW - I have the burnout of the black Charger too. It's one of the best one's I've seen on video or live. :thumbup:
 
The problem that I have is that I have been collecting small-block stuff for about 7 years. Nothing spectacular, but I am resourceful and I part out trucks on occasion. This has left me with an early 360, 302 heads for a 318 build, an aftermarket intake, and a complete factory 318 4-barrel car that runs great etc. I literally have most everything but gaskets and that type of thing. Plus the engine in the car runs real nicely. I am not expecting to run 12's off of this stuff, far from it.

For me to convert to a B series engine is going to be a complete infrastructure upgrade. Because as you stated, most everything will not interchange. The problem is that the deal on the B series engine is sweet. Realistically, most of my small block stuff would not sell for much.

Ideally I want to run my mid-13's and still get 14-16MPG. I'm am attempting to figure out the best way to do that.

Coming from a large 4x4 background I have come to realize that you can't get the MPG and performance without some sacrifices.

I live literally 18 miles from work. That is the shortest distance that I drive at all. Five miles either way nets me nothing so a 10mpg car is not much of an option. If I did end up with one, it would need to be real fast to justify it.

I'm not whining, but just looking for the best option to get me there.

Thank you, ROB
 
A small block can get the mileage and if it's in a light enuff car, run the time with nothing more than a small cam. Like for example a comp 260. (Realize I'm at sea level.)
I had a 360 get 20 mpgs without headers in a '79 Magnum. But it also had 2.76 gears. (26 inch tires)
An overdrive would be great if possible to obtain cheaply. You'll need to shorten the driveshaft.

I like the 360 better due to the increased crank throw. More torque. For pure street or street strip, there fantastic.
Pistons are cheaper than a 318. Thats about the only real cost savings over the 318.

The 400 (A '78 vintage "P" code engine.) in my current Magnum gets the best of about 13 on the Hwy. Rear gears are 3.21 w/26 inch tires. All stock except headers w/2-1/2 exhaust. The big block is naturaly thirsty.
With the 400, you could copy the Road Runner/Magnum engine to start and upgrade the short comings of the old stock parts for power and mileage helpers.

Things like a;

A T-Q over the Holley they came with.
Open air cleaner
Headers
Mild port work with better S/S valves
Jacobs ignition (Mileage Master)
Electric fan(s)
etc...
 
The following build ran 13.8 all day long at a recent meet...

3200 lb Valiant
Freshly rebuilt 318 with 9.8:1 comp
M1 intake
3.5 gears and 14" wheels
Edelbrock 650
Factory Ported and polished 318 heads
2800 stall
230 @.50 cam (forget the lift unfo)
Headers

The danger when using 318 heads is to go too big in the cam...
The SP works when you know you are using the revs to take advantage of where the torque is being produced

Heres another 318 build that ran a 13.2

3500 lb car
Erson 1H cam (228 dur and .472)
LD4B port matched
TQ 800
3.9 gears 14" wheels running "mini slicks"
Headers
Seriously ported 318 heads using 1.88 intake and 1.60 exhaust valves
3000 stall

crossed the line at appx 6000 rpm..above the range the cam was really designed for...
 
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