354 or 392? Hemi? Questions?

-
Guess I'll have to see exactly what he has.... I hope it's a 330 or 341. And a inch narrower would help alot. Is there anyway to easily get 350 hp 400 torque from one? I would hate to say ya it's got a hemi but it can't run... Or take someone for a ride just for them to be like should of put a 340...
 
70dusterpink said:
Guess I'll have to see exactly what he has.... I hope it's a 330 or 341. And a inch narrower would help alot. Is there anyway to easily get 350 hp 400 torque from one? I would hate to say ya it's got a hemi but it can't run... Or take someone for a ride just for them to be like should of put a 340...
Click to expand...

350 hp/400 torque wouldn't be hard. The 1957 345 Desoto Adventurer made 345 hp/355 ft-lbs stock, although that was a 9.5:1 compression, dual quad setup. But stock none the less.

The "formula" is pretty much the same. Set it up with 10:1 compression, put in a decent cam, and go with at least a 4v manifold and you should be making 300+ hp, depending on the cam. And for the 330/341, I don't see why that set up wouldn't make closer to 400+ hp. The only problem with the Desoto's, actually all the non-Chrysler's and even the 331, is piston choice to get to 10:1. For the 330/341, stock pistons will get you to 9:1. But for the 276/291, you basically have to go custom forged, so you're looking at like $800. But Hot Heads should have all of the specs you need, they've been made before they just aren't a stock item.

But that's with a rebuild. Without one, only the 330/341/345's are likely to get over 300 hp. The problem with the 276/291's is, like the early 331's, they had 7 or 7.5:1 compression. With a bump in compression they'll make over 300 hp no problem, but I don't think a 7:1 276 would make over 250 hp even with a 4v, cam and headers.
 
If it's not a 330 or 341 or hopefully tue 345!!! I will prolly won't get it if it's a smaller one doesn't seem worth it for 250hp hopefully I'll get lucky and get a 341 adventurer engine ahha
 
70dusterpink said:
If it's not a 330 or 341 or hopefully tue 345!!! I will prolly won't get it if it's a smaller one doesn't seem worth it for 250hp hopefully I'll get lucky and get a 341 adventurer engine ahha
Click to expand...


Its a good thing its in NJ, I'd have already bought it, even if its a 276/291. :-D

The low deck Desoto's are great engines, but without higher compression pistons they're hard to get big hp out of. On the other hand, you could probably turbocharge a 276/291 if it was in decent shape, the low compression would work great for that. And other than the cast pistons, the engines are bomb proof.

The 345's are pretty rare, they were the Desoto version of the Chrysler 300C with the dual quad 331. I believe they were only built that way for production because of racing rules at the time, ie, you had to make so many in production in order to run that setup at the track. Not saying it can't be a 345, its just a lot more likely it isn't.
 
i have a desoto hemi in the garage... i took the valve covers and made them fit on my cuda (long story)... i didnt think they were worth much
 
racerkilla said:
i have a desoto hemi in the garage... i took the valve covers and made them fit on my cuda (long story)... i didnt think they were worth much
Click to expand...

racerkilla said:
i have a desoto hemi in the garage... i took the valve covers and made them fit on my cuda (long story)... i didnt think they were worth much
Click to expand...

The early Chrysler hemi's have been popular with hot rodders and drag racers for a long time, mainly the 392 and 354's. But as the 392's and 354's get harder to find and more expensive, the other early hemi's have been gaining popularity. I wouldn't say a Desoto hemi is worth a lot, but I'd say its probably worth the $600 the seller is asking.
Just in the last year or so I've seen new intake manifolds being made for both the low and high deck Desoto's. They still aren't worth a ton, and they're expensive to rebuild because of the parts. But a 330 or 341 Desoto can make just as much power as a 331 or 354 Chrysler, and I would expect their value to climb as early hemi's get scarce.

As far as the hemi covers on the Cuda, all I'll say is, its a 340 4 speed Cuda, why does it need fake hemi valve covers? :dontknow: Sorry. Just my opinion, and we all know what opinions are like.
 
I'm still waiting on them numbers from the guy.... This is making me sweat I just wanna know what hemi it is ahah
 
i'm not sure what hemi i have, i know the valve covers didn't say firepower... engine come in a package deal

as for covers on a 340 4 speed. my other cars have cal custom, m/t, mopar performance and this time i wanted to do something different. OR next is sheet metal covers.. but so far every person that sees it in person compliment them.
 
Too bad you're in NJ. I could hook you up with a 392 Hemi with dual quads that is set up for alcohol. It's in a 65 Power Wagon right now, and is reported to have a matched set of 64 Max Wedge carbs on it, although I haven't been able to verify that cause the 64 carbs wern't numbered. The asking price for the whole truck is $1500.00, but I have been holdin off on buying it because...well...I don't need it I guess.

If you need any information about the early Hemis, call my buddy Dan Sprinkle. He knows just about everything about the early Hemis, and has been doing early Hemi motors for the better part of 40 years now. His number is 765-675-7368. He is out of Ohio. Heres a picture of the truck with the 392 in it!!! Geof
 

Attachments

  • 100_1127.jpg
    164.4 KB · Views: 625
That's not a bad deal for a 392 with dual quads. If I was closer I would defiantly take a look
 
Theres another Hemi sitting in an old 40's something sedan there also, all taken apart that can be had also. It's a 53, and I believe a 331, again with a dual quad manifold. It's the extended bellhousing, and according to Dan, not worth much, except the crank and intake. I didn't even ask the price, but I know it can be had cheep!!! Geof
 
Well guys it's a 291 desoto.... So 185hp 245 torque doesn't seem worth it to drop in my duster with that low of power and I don't want to supercharger just drop it in. Hmm conviemce me one way or another? Go for it or leave it and try to find a. 331,392,354,330,341,345?!?
 
70dusterpink said:
Ok so I realize it does fit and all and I know it weighs 750lbs but my car is only gonna be a fun street car not a race car.... I think it would be neat stock ratings are 280hp 380 torque. Not to shabby. Anyway here it goes... Do they make motor mounts for the swap, an headers? And a oil pan? If they do I might go this way I know it isn't a 426 but still a hemi would e a wow factor and still move a little Abody pretty good!!! If you have any info please let me know!!! Thanks alot!! I seen it done just not sure how... I can prolly weld up mounts but headers idk.... And oil pan idk... Please any help would be greatly appreciated
Click to expand...

Has anyone fooled around with putting 392 pistons in a 354? I'd lil
Ke to get more power out ofba 354 and I was told that thatbwasbthe way to get it. Seems to me I'd loose comp. Thought about shaving the heads to get little more compression. If anyone has any ideas on what I can do letnme know please..maybe a good cam.. Specs???????

Thanks in advance

Christineman
 
70dusterpink said:
Hey guys thanks. I'm hoping to slap a cam in it and a set of headers and when money provides a intake. I'll take pictures along the way to keep you guys updated!!' hoping for 300-350hp 400 torque it all depends on what hemi this guy has... He said a old 50s hemi... I assumed 392 he said ya I think so.. Gonna have to go take a look
Click to expand...
go to hothemiheads.com a great source for hemi info the 392 wasn't introduced till 1957 the smallest displacement hemi was a 241 ci. dodge from 1953. makes a great motor for an open hood hot rod. the best way to tell is by looking for the #s on the front of the block just behind the water pump scrape off the grease and you will see the #'s. either way it doesn't matter the displacement. an old hemi is a great hemi. check the #'s with the hemi identification guide from hothemiheads and you are all good to go. then you know what you are buying. good luck
 
I started to put a 331 Hemi into a '74 road runner and wanted to ask the crew on Moparts what they thought. Well..that was a real sh*tfest. I got flamed and was basically told I was stupid for wanting to even attempt it. Whatever...I have never seen a road runner of that year with a 331 in it.

I decided against it because I took the engine apart and found out that it was completely shot. Cracked cylinders. It is VERY expensive to do. Hothemiheads.com has about anything for an old hemi-even Desoto!

If I had the $$ and the motor, I'd do it just to be different and prove them wrong. Now I have a 1941 Dodge pickup that would be pretty sweet with a hemi in it.

Remember that most of the real early hemi's didn't have a lot of power but the magic of a hemi is how well they respond to modifications. You can get 300+hp pretty easily. Chrysler's are the best to start with because they are the best to get parts for.

The parts for a Chrysler,Dodge and Desoto Hemi are all completely different.
They made a Chrysler 354 poly engine as well in the mid 50's and if you have the hemi heads, you can bolt them to the poly and make a hemi out of it. Remember that they must be Chrysler heads and top end top. Can't use Dodge. You can do the same with a Dodge poly engine as well. If you have a Dodge poly engine, get a top end with the Dodge Hemi heads and do it to it!

I hear the reason for non interchangeability is that the bore spacing is different between the engines.
 
I put a 392 hemi into a '68 Barracuda 30 yrs ago. The original wedge motor mounts offsets the motor to the right side away from the steering. The hemi mounts are wider, and you need the motor centered to fit it in the bay. Also, the trans adapter will move the motor forward by 1". So generally, you can almost use the passenger side small block V8 mount by spacing it back by 1", but it will likely need tweaking to the right as well to make enough room on the driver's side. You will have clearance problems with the heater motor and the master cylinder. But the biggest problem is the #7 exhaust port exits directly over the steering shaft. Using a rack & pinion would allow this shaft to bend down, out of the way. I just hacked up the original exhaust manifold and raised the front of the motor to get clearance. Not a good solution. I have heard that a smaller 331-354 fits a little better in an A-body, but I tried it and it wasn't significantly better so I didn't persue it. The small Dodge hemi is more narrow and will definitely be easier to fit, but with a max of 315-325 ci, the benefit will be marginal.

It was a very tight fit, and I eventually pulled mine in favor of a wedge motor. Power is great, but it is excessively heavy unless you use the aluminum heads and other lightened parts. The motor works GREAT in my '56 Plymouth where it looks like it belongs there.
 
Christineman,

Putting standard 392 pistons into a .06" overbore 354 is a very common practice. It will drop the 392 rated compression by 1 full point so you need to use high compression pistons.
 
I think it's a great idea. I am somewhat lookin for a 331, 354 or 392 myself for a rat rod truck project. But with no money I gotta be in the right place at the right time with sumthin to trade. I've come close but nuthin yet.
 
72bluNblu said:
In my opinion, it'd still be worth it. But I like old hemi's! :-D I also have a 291 Desoto. Get the ID number off of it, it should be located on the front of the block between the water pump and the valley cover.

Desoto's came in 5 variations- 276, 291, 330, and 341/345. The earlier 276/291 block is a "low deck", the 330/341/345 is a "high deck". Same block with different deck heights.

Parts are a little harder to come by, but they are true hemi's just like their Chrysler counterparts. The same sources will work for parts, and aftermarket intakes are now available for both low and high deck versions. Hot Heads has everything you need. On the plus side, either variation is smaller than a 331/354/392, even the tall decks, so they'd probably fit better. The 330/341's can easily make over 300 hp, some of the 4v versions did from the factory. Transmission pattern is the same as the Chrysler's. Engine mounts are the same as the 331/354/392, except over 1" narrower. I measured my 291 mounts just for fun, they measure 16 1/2" apart at the top holes. Same dimension I pulled off my '71 318, and the mounts appear the same. So, the mounts might even be easier on the Desoto. :-D Just for info, my 331 measured in at about 17 3/4". All those are just with a tape measure though, and the 291 still has a front cover so they may not be perfect.

You can find the specs on the Desoto's here

http://www.thehemi.com/engines.php

Casting numbers for the Desoto's look like this, the "S" number starts the ID, the first two digits tell you what it is.

DeSoto Hemi_________________________________________
S17 .......1952.......276.......Firedome....... 2-bbl
S16 .......1953.......276.......Firedome....... 2-bbl


S19....... 1954.......276 ......Firedome....... 2-bbl
S21....... 1955.......291.......Fireflite....... 4-bbl
S22....... 1955.......291.......Firedome....... 2-bbl
S23....... 1956.......330.......Firedome....... 2-bbl
S24....... 1956.......330.......Fireflite....... 4-bbl
S24A......1956.......341.......Adventurer....... dual 4-bbl
S25....... 1957.......341.......Firedome....... 2-bbl
S26....... 1957.......341.......Fireflite....... 4-bbl
S26A.......1957.......345......Adventurer....... dual 4-bbl
S27....... 1957....... 325......Dodge Engine....... 4-bbl


Heck, I have the engine out of my EL5 Dart, maybe I should pull the 291 off the stand and see if it'll bolt up, just for fun! :-D
Click to expand...

Hey guy's, what ever happened to the project plans on the 354 for the Duster?
Have a look at my resent posting on my four 1956 Chryslers in the 4-sale section; three of them are 354's!
Mac
 
Back around 1971 or '72 my brother was building a '57 Chevy 2 door wagon with a 392 Hemi in it. I remember going to the local speed shop and telling them what we wanted to do. Believe it or not Hurst made the conversion mounts and fame adaptors for that swap. It was a bolt in!!!
We had to cut a section of the passenger side firewall out to clear the valve cover.
It had an I beam front axle and a tilt nose too. unfortunately it never got finished.
Two friends of his had 392's in a '65 Barracuda and a '51 Henry J. Both of those cars were stupid fast.
Good times back then. I was just a tad too young to be a part of it.

Ted
 
I also noticed someone said earlier in the thread the small block distributor will work in the early Hemi. Not so. Hot Heads makes a correct intermediate shaft to make it happen. I have one in my 331, because I plan to use a small block distributor. While it will work, it is not a bolt in and go.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I also noticed someone said earlier in the thread the small block distributor will work in the early Hemi. Not so. Hot Heads makes a correct intermediate shaft to make it happen. I have one in my 331, because I plan to use a small block distributor. While it will work, it is not a bolt in and go.
Click to expand...

A small block dizzy is a drop in fit for the 241/270 Dodge hemi's and poly's. The tall deck dodges, the 315's/325's, are like the Chrysler and Desoto hemi's, they require a different length intermediate shaft to work. And the tall deck dodges, the low and tall deck Chrysler's, and the low and tall deck DeSoto's all take different length intermediate shafts.

But I assure you, you can take a distributor straight out of an LA 318 and drop it right into a 241 or 270 Dodge Hemi or poly. I did exactly that with the 270 in my girlfriend's '55 Coronet.
 
The thread was about the Chrysler Hemi engines. That's what I was referring to. I assure YOU that the small block distributor is not a drop in for those. I have one hangin on the engine stand less than 50 feet away I built nut by bolt.


72bluNblu said:
A small block dizzy is a drop in fit for the 241/270 Dodge hemi's and poly's. The tall deck dodges, the 315's/325's, are like the Chrysler and Desoto hemi's, they require a different length intermediate shaft to work. And the tall deck dodges, the low and tall deck Chrysler's, and the low and tall deck DeSoto's all take different length intermediate shafts.

But I assure you, you can take a distributor straight out of an LA 318 and drop it right into a 241 or 270 Dodge Hemi or poly. I did exactly that with the 270 in my girlfriend's '55 Coronet.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top