360 - 64 Signet conversion need help!!

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HotLines

HotLines

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Follow me here, I have a 1991 Dodge P/U with a 360 TBI engine and 518 transmission. The truck has 40,000 miles and runs excellent. This next week I will be pulling the engine and trans right down to the ECU and ridding myself of the body. I want to install this engine and trans into my 64 Signet which originally had a 273 V8 then a 340 w/ a Dynamic 727 pushbutton trans.

What exactly will I need to install this completely stock 360 and 518 O/D into my 64 Valiant Signet with a minimum of problems. I do not want to run a carburetor or use the 727 trans which is in the 64 at the moment. Believe me I have more then enough 340 engines, race parts and heads to make most all Mopar enthusiasts jump for joy but I do not want to use anything other then this stock engine and trans setup for my 64 Signet. Will I need motor mounts from the P/U which Ill have and will I need any kind of extra wiring for the TBI to work in the 64.

Mind you as I do have a plasma cutter and enough tools to accomplish whatever is needed but I do not want to cut my 64 anymore then needed or turn this into a quagmeyer as just want this car on the road and drivable.

Can you help me?
 
I would think you would need to switch from the truck oil pan and pickup to the center sump. If you had a 340 in it, and the mounting ears on the 360 were the same, it should fit with the same mounts as the 340.
I don't know anything about that tranny, but some overdrives were based on 904's and 727's but I would think that they might be physically larger being overdrives. If it's electronically controlled, you would need the control box for it.

That is assuming it's an automatic...if it's a manual, it should be a simple enough swap. (Like I said, I don't know anything about more modern...or any...manual trannies)

If you keep the fuel injection, you will need the oxygen sensors, or O2 simulators, if they make them, as well as all sensors associated with the air intake.
 
Plus... I would imagine the front of the truck 360 has WAY more accessories on it. You might have to lose all the smog pumps, and power steering pumps and whatever.
 
What exactly will I need to install this completely stock 360 and 518 O/D into my 64 Valiant Signet with a minimum of problems.
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car pan and the 340 mounts will bolt the motor in, i assume you have the headers or manifolds for it. gonna take major surgery to fit a 518 in that ***** though. to do the injection you'll have to get the wire diagram for the truck and find what is needed to run it and also will e a fure system that will run the correct pressure.
 
You will need to cut the tranny crossmember out and fab a new one. The 518 is bigger out back. There are quite a few threads that go into detail and pics here. just search the forums.
 
Thank you so far and I'll be a little bit more specific. My 64 has a 22 gallon fuel cell already mounted in the trunk and can be setup for F.I. quickly as its characteristics has all the plumbing and yes I understand the 518 is appx 4 inches longer then the pushbutton 727 which is already in the car yet I figured to possibly cut the rear tunnel if needed too as I cant believe the whole tunnel will need to be altered. Granted the 360s smog pump and other mickey mouse accessories have to go. The headers I have are fenderwell and have been in the car for the past 25 years and they are still perfect.

As far as the truck which I have had for a couple years, I intend to pull the harness to the ECU and strip the wires back. As I've said earlier the truck runs excellent and has only 40k on the complete vehicle but is way less important then having my 64 up and running and since my two 340's aren't of interest for me these days, this 360 conversion will do till I find what it is that will float my boat so to speak.

Thank you again

BTW ( abodyjoe ), I used the 273 motor mounts for the install of the first 340 I had in it and they stayed for years yet only now did I realize that those 273 mounts may not work with the 360. So I ask, will I need one of the 360 truck mounts or both or what kind of motor mounts do you or anyone suggest?
 
What exactly are the correct motor mounts or do I have to buy motor mounts?

or can I use the 360 motor mounts from the p/u truck the 360 came from?

Granted, I will use a center sump oil pan and headers which the car has had for many years and yes the transmission crossmember will have to be changed, build or modified.

Of course the 360's accessories like the smog pump will be removed.

I've had this vehicle for 20 some odd years and have gone through a 273, a 318, 2- 340's and now want to use a TBI 1991 LA 360 ( Note: all these engines used modified 273 motor mounts.

Thank you in advance
 
HotLines said:
What exactly are the correct motor mounts or do I have to buy motor mounts?

or can I use the 360 motor mounts from the p/u truck the 360 came from?

Granted, I will use a center sump oil pan and headers which the car has had for many years and yes the transmission crossmember will have to be changed, build or modified.

Of course the 360's accessories like the smog pump will be removed.

I've had this vehicle for 20 some odd years and have gone through a 273, a 318, 2- 340's and now want to use a TBI 1991 LA 360 ( Note: all these engines used modified 273 motor mounts.

Thank you in advance
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You should be able to use the motor mounts off the 340 for the 360. You'll also need a 360 car pan....the ones from the 273/318/340 won't work.
 
I would get the engine wiring diagram for the 91 so it can be mated to the 64 harness. Your local Dodge dealer should have the 91 FSM to let you copy the appropriate wiring diagrams. I don't think our 93 Dak's transmission is computer controlled - your 91 wouldn't be either.
 
Why can't anyone read what I have said in any of these replies which I have made?

The motor mounts I have used in the past 20 so years for the 318 and 340 were modified 273 mounts. Now I just want to know if the 360 mounts from the 1991 Dodge p/u truck can be used instead of buying new ones?

I hate to sound like a know it all but can someone tell me something I don't know. Its understandable that the 360 engine will need a center sump oil pan and removal of the smog pump and other thingies I don't need.

I also know that the wiring from the TBI will have to be cut back and reconfigured to the Ron Francis wiring system that occupies the space the original wiring and fuse box used til 1988 when I added the RF unit with its newer type fuses.

The transmission is a 918 - 3 wire type, no computer.

Its the simple things I have problems with like the friggin motor mounts
 
i am installing a318 mag with 518 trans into 1964 valiant motor mounts 273 tunnel had to come out all the way , rear cross menber cut out to bolts, lower half cut down two 1inch used 6cly slant motor mount weld flat plate to lower half on botton side dill 1/2in hole in stall mount sideways make plate for trans center up drill 1/2 in hole and bolt her up
 
the 5.9 (360) has the same offset mount ears as the 340 so if you were using modified 273 mounts on the 340 that was in the car you can reuse the mounts. I think you mean the tranny is a 518 3 wire. 3 wire means OD and TC lockup so the tailshaft of the tranny is a larger diameter than the 904 that was in the car. In order to do the conversion you will need to mod the tranny tunnel in that area. The motor mounts from the truck are different and won't work. Someone mentioned smog pump, etc. You may have to either leave it on or do something to fool the ecm to think its there. Same with the EGR. Used to be several places that sold "test" connectors to eleminate the EGR but I think they are out of busines now. Might check the Dakota truck forums and see if someone has a schematic of it though and build your own.

Larry


HotLines said:
Why can't anyone read what I have said in any of these replies which I have made?

The motor mounts I have used in the past 20 so years for the 318 and 340 were modified 273 mounts. Now I just want to know if the 360 mounts from the 1991 Dodge p/u truck can be used instead of buying new ones?

I hate to sound like a know it all but can someone tell me something I don't know. Its understandable that the 360 engine will need a center sump oil pan and removal of the smog pump and other thingies I don't need.

I also know that the wiring from the TBI will have to be cut back and reconfigured to the Ron Francis wiring system that occupies the space the original wiring and fuse box used til 1988 when I added the RF unit with its newer type fuses.

The transmission is a 918 - 3 wire type, no computer.

Its the simple things I have problems with like the friggin motor mounts
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Thank you Larry for that bit of infomation and I'll check the Durango forums if need be and as far as the 904 transmission, my car hasn't had a 904 since 1989. The 64 does have a manual valve body1962 727 pushbutton transmission that was built by Dynamic.

Thank you to all who have exercised their gray matter to help me
 
It's been done before....there was a convertible in a magazine and on the net that's done. The trans tunnel/floor board will need work right there. It could have a 2 wire or a 3 wire trans. I just done this in my 86 RC. Stuck a 92 1 ton van 2 wire 518 behind a 440. In your application like said above the motor mounts will be the same as the 340. You'll need a 360 center dump pan(car). As fas as the tbi set up......not to curse......but I haven't heard much good things out of it.
 
Thank you MoparLee I understand the logistics all too well in regards to the stock TBI and gotta tell ya I've got just about every combination from stock TBI to a completely new Holley Pro4 which I bought in 93 and never installed. The more I try doing things simple and effective, the more problems I seem to come into.

I'm probably better off running a simple 4 barrel setup and the 727 which is in the Signet along with the 3:55 sure grip for running around town but for some strange reason I want to drive this car cross country and be free of problems. Where I live, everything is so expensive to buy yet nothing I have is as expensive if I were to sell. I have two 1970 340 blocks, cranks, roller cams and just about everything to put them together. I have complete pair of W2 heads and all I really want is to have something that will take me away so I can find the engine setup I really need. If you knew my background you wouldn't believe I was asking these questions but hey, I'm just a teenager in a 67 year old body
 
The A518 tranny is pretty much the same dimensions as the 727 from bellhousing to where he tail sectin bolts on. The OD is in the tail section and adds to the diameter of the unit in that area. Naturally this just happens to be where it passes thru the crossmember. Since the X-member is also the anchor point for the torsion bars it needs to be solid to handle the rotational torque of the bars in the anchors. You can split and open up the top part of the x-member to accomadate the 518 tailsection just reinforce it on top. Will be really close but doable. Once the top has ben modified then you will have to play with the bolt in X-member under the trans. Its a time consuming project and if you have the place to do it, a decent project for a long cold winter....

Larry


HotLines said:
Thank you Larry for that bit of infomation and I'll check the Durango forums if need be and as far as the 904 transmission, my car hasn't had a 904 since 1989. The 64 does have a manual valve body1962 727 pushbutton transmission that was built by Dynamic.

Thank you to all who have exercised their gray matter to help me
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Well thank you again in regards to the 518 and as I think about this over and over in my head I am beginning to realize that the gear ratio is what bothers me the most as its the same as the 727 except for the Overdrive, 2:45 - 1:45 - 1:00 - .69 o/d. Many times I thought about using the 700R4 strictly for the for the gear ratios using a Wilcap against either a 3:23 or the 3:55 that's at the rear now. Using the 518 will mean possibly using a lower rear gear ratio ( higher number ) compared to the 700R4 with its 3:06 1st gear and using what I have now as we all know what the launch would be like.

Well anyway as this post went further into it then I originally thought, I think I'll just leave my Dynamic 727 in it, run the 91 360 with a 4 barrel until I can find a hi tech engine that will take a center sump oil pan to clear the suspension. If I tell you any more of my thoughts, you'll begin to dislike me even more.
 
I have a 408 stroker in my Dart and with a 518 it cruises at 72MPH at 2000 RPM in OD with the TC locked. 3:23 Sure Grip rear end, approx 27 inch diameter tires. In town with no OD or lockup its like a 727. Nice, except for the PITA of getting it into the car....

Larry
 
As your finding out there is a bit of work involved if your using an
Early Abody for a project car. If your 60+ years old and still doing this type of work,Wow God Bless you. :)

There is a lot of info here on this website that you can use the SEARCH
function to look for.

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/auto/28.html

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/forumdisplay.php?f=34

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=91437


518-3.jpg


518-6.jpg


HotLines said:
Well thank you again in regards to the 518 and as I think about this over and over in my head I am beginning to realize that the gear ratio is what bothers me the most as its the same as the 727 except for the Overdrive, 2:45 - 1:45 - 1:00 - .69 o/d. Many times I thought about using the 700R4 strictly for the for the gear ratios using a Wilcap against either a 3:23 or the 3:55 that's at the rear now. Using the 518 will mean possibly using a lower rear gear ratio ( higher number ) compared to the 700R4 with its 3:06 1st gear and using what I have now as we all know what the launch would be like.

Well anyway as this post went further into it then I originally thought, I think I'll just leave my Dynamic 727 in it, run the 91 360 with a 4 barrel until I can find a hi tech engine that will take a center sump oil pan to clear the suspension. If I tell you any more of my thoughts, you'll begin to dislike me even more.
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Cavemanmoron, My name is Joey Madden and I am a long time freehand pinstriper. I have become a native Oregonian yet born and raised between Queens NuYawk and your neck of the woods, East Nassau. I grew up with Howie Commander and most of the other kids from that area as my house was on Tsatsawassa lake road and everyone played together. My good friend Tommy Bigelow still has a used car place selling classics up around Nassau, I grew up with his older brother Charlie who died early on in life yet knew his entire family. Sometimes I wonder why I ever left.

I would have had this on the road again a lot sooner if my life and accent was anything other then what it is as the rage of jealousy in this part of the country is anything but normal. I always question myself as to WTF I am doing here.

I've had this Black 64 Signet for over 20 years and have practically built the entire vehicle and gone through 3 other motors and all I wanted was something simple until I find some technology that excites me. The car has been tucked away for 7 years with a broken roller cam 340 which ran the 11's equipped with a 22 gallon fuel, 8.75 rear, PB 727 reverse manual VB, vintage air, ron francis wiring and a leather lexus interior all of the editions of which are in like new condition.
 
Hey howudoin!!

Yes Bigelow's always has some awesome cars out front, for us car nuts
to drool about when we are headed out to spend some of our money at Howie's place. ;)

I haven't been out to Lebanon Valley yet this year,
but did go to a drag race show out there last year.

As to wtf your doing out on the west coast, life is where Your at,
I hope that most days your doing OK, and Some days are Great.

The taxes around here are getting to be a real bummer. I don't smoke,
but think that NY State raising the cig tax by $1.60 More {Each Pack}
is just sad.

Got any pictures of the Valiant to share?



HotLines said:
Cavemanmoron, My name is Joey Madden and I am a long time freehand pinstriper. I have become a native Oregonian yet born and raised between Queens NuYawk and your neck of the woods, East Nassau. I grew up with Howie Commander and most of the other kids from that area as my house was on Tsatsawassa lake road and everyone played together. My good friend Tommy Bigelow still has a used car place selling classics up around Nassau, I grew up with his older brother Charlie who died early on in life yet knew his entire family. Sometimes I wonder why I ever left.

I would have had this on the road again a lot sooner if my life and accent was anything other then what it is as the rage of jealousy in this part of the country is anything but normal. I always question myself as to WTF I am doing here.

I've had this Black 64 Signet for over 20 years and have practically built the entire vehicle and gone through 3 other motors and all I wanted was something simple until I find some technology that excites me. The car has been tucked away for 7 years with a broken roller cam 340 which ran the 11's equipped with a 22 gallon fuel, 8.75 rear, PB 727 reverse manual VB, vintage air, ron francis wiring and a leather lexus interior all of the editions of which are in like new condition.
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