360 build Ideas

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Muad'Dib15

Muad'Dib15

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So as of last week friday, I finally have the $2500 nescessary to get my 360 rebuilt by C&S Performance in Butler. I'm waiting until the end of april to do so. :hello1: So now I'm looking for ideas on what to do. I know how to build up a chevy LT1 up but that's about it, mostly because there's really only one good set way to build power on those motors, comp cams roller lifters, 1.6 roller rockers, and then heads and cam from Advanced induction, as well as little free tricks and engine tuning. But with all the different combos possible on LA small blocks, I have no idea where to start.

I want a 383 small block that has the ability to rev to 6500 but is mostly used to put around town. So decent power but I'm looking for torque. I will eventually be putting a Tremec TKO in after an 833, to get everything set up. Right now it has a 727 and a 7.25 rear end, which will be changed asap, with 3.23 gears. I'll be porting the heads at home and doing assembly there too.

What do I need to do, or buy or what. Just talk me through it.
 
I think I'll just keep the stock cid for budgetary reasons. I do want to start upgrading something though as having the short block completely done, will cost me about 1800 so I got about 700 ish that I can play with. So I was thinking of getting these Hughes roller rockers to start on my upgrading process and a Lunati 60403 cam. I know I need to upgrade the springs, I'll have the shop do that as well. What about valve seats or guides or whatever the rockers hit against at full lift? Anything special I should know about doing this?
 
Muad'Dib15 said:
I think I'll just keep the stock cid for budgetary reasons. I do want to start upgrading something though as having the short block completely done, will cost me about 1800 so I got about 700 ish that I can play with. So I was thinking of getting these Hughes roller rockers to start on my upgrading process and a Lunati 60403 cam. I know I need to upgrade the springs, I'll have the shop do that as well. What about valve seats or guides or whatever the rockers hit against at full lift? Anything special I should know about doing this?
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If you're that limited on budget, I would leave the roller rockers for later. Get all the machine work done and figured out first, as it can be costly. You'll regret buying roller rockers now and coming up short on machine work later. The stock rocker train WILL work with that camshaft. Granted, adjustable rollers are nice, but not necessary at your level. Just food for thought.
 
Are you using J heads? The cam you picked is a good one but I'd recommend going with the upgraded lifters (Micro-Trol??) for stability at higher RPM. I have the regular hydraulic lifters Lunati sells with their cams and they like to bleed down after sitting a day or two, I've also had a couple partially dislodge the retaining clip which can be very bad if they pop out all the way.
 
I have no idea, the engine is a 71-73 360. I know nothing about it past that. The furthest it's been torn down before now was taking the intake and the valve covers off.
 
Quick question, is it possible to remove the heads while the engine is in the car? I'm trying to get it out without having to remove the trans as well. I have the intake and everything blocking the heads ability to be removed somewhat out of the way, the exhaust manifolds are kind of in the way, but I can work around that. So is it possible?
 
Muad'Dib15 said:
Quick question, is it possible to remove the heads while the engine is in the car? I'm trying to get it out without having to remove the trans as well. I have the intake and everything blocking the heads ability to be removed somewhat out of the way, the exhaust manifolds are kind of in the way, but I can work around that. So is it possible?
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So are you trying to pull the whole engine? Or just the heads? You don't need to pull the heads to pull the engine. You can just remove all the bellhousing bolts, the starter, the front accessories, the fan, the radiator, and the distributor cap (to clear the cowl) You should be able to leave the manifolds on, if you disconnect them from the exhaust pipe at the flange. And don't forget all your wiring and vacuum stuff.
 
Yeah, but the last time we tried to pull just the engine we had to literally pull the engine and trans out at the same time. I'm trying to find a way to just pull the engine. I can get at the top bellhousing bolts now that the intake, distributor and everything else connected to them is off. So I figured the easiest way to do is is to disassemble the engine to the short block in the car, then pull it out.
 
You can pull the motor without the trans. You can also leave the heads on the motor. You need to jack the front of the car up and put jack stands under the frame. From underneath you need to disconnect the exhaust from the manifolds. You need to unbolt the torque converter from the flexplate and slide the converter towards the back of the trans bell housing so it is out of the way. Make sure you disconnect the battery first, then unbolt the starter and remove it.

Up top you need to remove the radiator and any heater hoses attached to the intake. You need to remove the throttle linkage and trans kick down linkage. You need to disconnect any vacuum hoses going to the firewall. You need to disconnect the fuel line and any lines going to a charcoal fuel vapor canister. I would pull the dirstibutor and plug the hole with a rag. You need to disconnect any wires going to the motor, especially ground cables.

Remove the bolts holding the transmission to the engine. Attach the engine hoist to the engine and take the load off the motor mounts. Put a jack under the transmission to support its weight. Unbolt the motor mounts from the frame. Separate the engine from the transmission. Make sure the transmission is supported properly by the jack. Lift the engine from the engine bay.

If you need to move the car with the engine out then I suggest you fab up a front cross member to hold up the front of the transmission. Here is one I did for a type "F" vehicle:

noengine1.jpg



transbracket.jpg
 
EDIT: I get a little excited, I thought these were worth more, then I did research and found out they weren't as special as I thought.
I GOT X HEADS ON MY 360!! (340?) I GOT X HEADS ON MY 360!! I GOT X HEADS ON MY 360!! I GOT X HEADS ON MY 360!! I GOT X HEADS ON MY 360!! :blob: :blob: :blob: :blob: :blob: :hello1: :hello1: :hello1: Words cannot describe the joy I feel.

Well, we're already committed to taking the trans out as well, thanks for the advice anyway though. We took the heads off, starter's out, manifolds are off, trans mount is being held by two bolts right now, and the shifter cable is unhooked. Literally the only thing to do now is get an engine puller and take it all out. Quick question, are the pistons supposed to move around like 1/8 inch when you attempt to wiggle them with your finger, and are you supposed to be able to see the rings from the top??? :D :shock: At least now I know why I had no power. And I'm not sure if I have a 360 anymore, I may have a 340. But still
I GOT X HEADS ON MY 360!! I GOT X HEADS ON MY 360!! I GOT X HEADS ON MY 360!! I GOT X HEADS ON MY 360!! I GOT X HEADS ON MY 360!!

pics:

underside.jpg

Can you tell it burned a lot of oil? :D
topside.jpg

We think these heads were worked on, they have double valve springs.
casting.jpg

casting number to prove I'm not full of ****.
 
C&S says they'll build me a 408 stroker for only $500 (stroker crank) more than they would charge to rebuild the engine anyway since they are replacing the pistons and rods anyway because of what I said in my previous post about them wiggling. This build just keeps getting better and better. W00T!!
 
yeah, I glanced at that one earlier.

So I got the engine out of the car and separatated from the trans in under two hours yesterday, took it apart today and took it over to C&S in Butler. That was the worse engine Clint has seen in a loooong time. Main bearings are brown, the crank has a ridge worn in between the rods, the pistons actually wore into the block, piston rings were nearly gone, all the bearings are toast, the cam is worn down, the valves are sunk into the heads, and the pistons wiggle on their wristpins. yeah, I think what I had budgeted for the engine is all going to be used up. They were all amazed that I hadn't blown up the engine yet. And because of my 2.76 gears I can't get a mid high cam. :( oh well I only have one picture of it out from yesterday, so I'll get some new ones of some of the parts when we take the TC over there later.

engineout.jpg
 
Yep, it's definitely a 360. When we talked to C&S, they confirmed it.
In the week they've had the engine, they magnafluxed it. The block is good, which is nice.

block.jpg


The heads are going to be completely gone through they are so trashed. But, when they were "rebuilt" they left the important part alone, the valve guide things (the circles around where the valve stems go, don't know the technical term) were untouched and were machined down (by C&S not the previous people) to .550. Now I can run a radical wicked cam. :burnout: :D

head2.jpg


It also had new seats put in and will need all new valves. The heads were machined .006 and only had about 4 flat spots, so yeah it needs milling done to it. lol

head4.jpg


head3.jpg


the threads for the intake and exhaust manifold were also stripped out and needed to be rethreaded.

heads.jpg


yeah, I'm gonna have about 1K in the heads by the time I'm done. But the nice thing is, it'll run waaaay better than before.
 
Cleaned out the intake a little, smoothed out that area where it comes into the chamber. So little things but it'll work better than before. I ordered a Lunati Voodoo 60403 cam as well as a Pertronix electronic igniton. I found out on Saturday the #4 bearing was on the verge of spinnning, which tells you exactly how the guy who owned it before was running this engine before I got it... The bearing surfaces all had to be honed pretty far to go to true, and the crank was so bad that they junked it. It was pretty far gone. haha. pictures of the heads later.
 
If you are running the Lunati valve springs - they still need to cut the step out of the valve spring pockets... The guide trimming is only the first 1/2 of fitting true dual springs. the spring seats are the second 1/2.
 
Now would be a real good time to take the heads home and do some port work before they do the final seat cut. That way if you nick a seat with a cutter you don't have to pay to have the seats done twice. (learned the hard way myself)

You could probably step up to a bigger cam with the long arm crank and still have enough torque to pull 2.76 gears.
 
I did do a little port work as well. Not too much as I don't know much about doing this and it was my first time, but it should flow better than before. It was mostly cleaning up the burrs and smoothing things out. I did hit the seats a couple times, but hopefully not enough to mess up the previous job done to the intakes.
CCcleanedup.jpg

I wish I had taken more pictures before taking it back, but I'll do that when I get the heads back. I'm not quite sure what valve springs they are giving me. I know that these guys at C&S are very good at what they do. I didn't even have ask them to cut the valve seats, they did it before I even went over there to look at them, for exactly the reason that I would have asked them to do it. SBM heads are limited to about .500 lift before encountering retainer to guide collision.* Everything I can think of, they've probably done it. I'm fine with the cam I got though, I was looking for something that would make decent power over a longer rpm range, and that Lunati 60403 is exactly what I was looking for.

*read on HR junkyard jewel, they used a magnum 360. Are these about the same?
 
Well, I'm not running dual springs, found that out today, just a single set with dampers inside. I got everything back today except the heads, (just need another 8 springs) pistons, and rods (which need a little machining to play nice together where they sit on the wrist pin). Which should all be ready to go tomorrow. I have a quick question. I bought a Melling HV oil pump and I still have the stock oil pan. I plan to mostly drive it around with some hard take offs occasionally, (probably will never see the strip, if not only about once or twice a year). Am I going to have any oiling issues?
 
you will be ok with the stock pan and HV pump under regular driving conditions and full throttle here and there stop light stuff, though a baffle is always a good idea, even a lil one that hangs about 2'' of the top rear edge of sump.
 
Yes, I did do a little working down to that. I didn't go too crazy but it will definately flow better than it did before. Got the pistons, rods, and heads today, all painted now. But when putting the rings on the pistons, I broke the second to last ring (wiper) that I had to put on. Murphy is a jerk... So, now tomorrow, I can put in every piston but the number 7. I was hoping to have it all together, but that won't happen until atleast Monday. I'm hoping that the shop has a few extras, as someone has to have broken a couple here and there.
 
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