Thanks.
Did you just hear that giant sucking sound. Ouch!!
Did you just hear that giant sucking sound. Ouch!!
360 build questions.
- Thread starter Bad Sport
- Start date
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Krooser
Building Chinese Free Engines since 1959...
Your engine shop can figure what you need to mill off the heads to make the intake fit. And you don't need full groove bearings. Again I'd ask your engine guy what he recommends and prefers to use for bearings. A cheap internet price isn't always a deal.
Well, in the spirit of the thread, this is a low buck build coupled with an education process for me.
That said, "cheap" bearings is not what I'm looking for just what is correct and why.
The heads were milled, so now I have to figure the process for milling the intake side so my LD340 will fit.
I can pay someone to do this for me or I can learn myself, which is what I'm trying to accomplish here.
Of course the actual work will have to be farmed out, I don't think a grinder would be the way to go, lol.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Not sure if this is what you mean: The one issue possible issue with grinding mills is that some tend not to have as precisely stabilized a mill head, and may slope off a bit when it runs off the end of the piece, giving a coupla thousandths slope off at the ends of the workpiece. OK for a flywheel, not so good for a head or block; may be tolerable an intake.
As noted, the full groove bearings will give more oiling to the rod bearings, as they can get pressure full time, rather than half time. But it will take some pressure away from somewhere else, like the cam bearings, or the left side oil lifter gallery. The HV pump will help keep up that pressure, especially at the lower RPM's and idle.
As noted, the full groove bearings will give more oiling to the rod bearings, as they can get pressure full time, rather than half time. But it will take some pressure away from somewhere else, like the cam bearings, or the left side oil lifter gallery. The HV pump will help keep up that pressure, especially at the lower RPM's and idle.
Yeah, I decided to go with half groove mains instead of full groove. I am replacing all bearings just because, the mains looked real good, but for 80 bucks I figured WTH, right, lol.
I may be misguiding myself on this build, but if I pay attention to the little details I should be good.
Again, this is mostly an educational build for me, shooting for some modicum of success, lol.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Putting in new bearings is just good sense, IMO, if you want to give it the best shot to last. They don't cost all that much in the grand scheme of things. New cam and rod bearings fall in the same place.
You can pull in new cam bearings yourself. We used some wood discs cut with a hole saw, a long 1/4" all thread rod, and some thick large washers. They went in better oriented than most every time I have had a shop do it.
You can pull in new cam bearings yourself. We used some wood discs cut with a hole saw, a long 1/4" all thread rod, and some thick large washers. They went in better oriented than most every time I have had a shop do it.
Anyone know of a good source for tolerances/clearances throughout?
Torque specs throughout?? I haven't looked, FSM have them?
Torque specs throughout?? I haven't looked, FSM have them?
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
That is the place to start, 'specially for a stock build. The FSM for my son's 65 Barracuda has a really serious number of such specs. Even items like lifter bore specs... that is pretty arcane for most builders.
I tend towards .0015" bearing clearances for the street; .002-.0025" for race.
I tend towards .0015" bearing clearances for the street; .002-.0025" for race.
So I have been reading a little about solid roller cams.
Is it possible to run one in a non roller block?
Is it possible to run one in a non roller block?
Anyone?
Also, I "assume", lol when measuring ball/cup pushrods with a caliper, that the measurement is from tip of ball to top of cup?!?!
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
I have just been looking at hyd roller cams in an LA 360 block. Looks doable, buuuut.... As I understand things as this moment.....
The one issue was that the waist band in the original lifters was made for lifter bores higher in the block, and, when put in the standard LA block, the waist band could pop up above the top of the lifter bore, and bleed off the oil pressure in the gallery and the whole engine.
Another issue is that the standard roller lifters may need the lifter bores bushed....expensive.
Hughes has a set of hyd roller lifters that have the waist band located lower and MRL has a set of solids the same way. There may be others who make these. And there may be other options that others can suggest.
BUT, for a budget build....ix-nay on the ollers-ray ! These modded lifter sets are $400-$600 bucks, and the roller cam are in the $300 range......You may save the $$ on the modded lifters by doing the copper tube & peen process on the galleries or other various oil restriction mods, but not sure if you can get around the lifter bore bushes. Bottom line: Flat tappet cams exist for a reason... much cheaper.
Are you sure you want that high RPM range operations that come with the roller cams, 'specialy the sold ones? I looked at Crane, Howards, and Lunati catalogs so far, and only Lunati had a Voodoo hyd roller cam profile suitable for low-mid RPM operation; the other 2 mfr's only had roller profiles suitable for racing. I am looking them just for a race (rally) build and want a wide torque range with the ability to use lower zinc synthetic oils.
The one issue was that the waist band in the original lifters was made for lifter bores higher in the block, and, when put in the standard LA block, the waist band could pop up above the top of the lifter bore, and bleed off the oil pressure in the gallery and the whole engine.
Another issue is that the standard roller lifters may need the lifter bores bushed....expensive.
Hughes has a set of hyd roller lifters that have the waist band located lower and MRL has a set of solids the same way. There may be others who make these. And there may be other options that others can suggest.
BUT, for a budget build....ix-nay on the ollers-ray ! These modded lifter sets are $400-$600 bucks, and the roller cam are in the $300 range......You may save the $$ on the modded lifters by doing the copper tube & peen process on the galleries or other various oil restriction mods, but not sure if you can get around the lifter bore bushes. Bottom line: Flat tappet cams exist for a reason... much cheaper.
Are you sure you want that high RPM range operations that come with the roller cams, 'specialy the sold ones? I looked at Crane, Howards, and Lunati catalogs so far, and only Lunati had a Voodoo hyd roller cam profile suitable for low-mid RPM operation; the other 2 mfr's only had roller profiles suitable for racing. I am looking them just for a race (rally) build and want a wide torque range with the ability to use lower zinc synthetic oils.
No, not sure, just got to looking and was curious.
Any info on measuring the pushrods?
Like I said, I "assume", but you know what they say about that, lol.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Best info for pushrod measurement I have found was on the Smith Brothers sites.
You can measure from ball tip to cup top, like you suggest, but they recommend what they call 'effective pushrod length' which is more accurate, and takes out the variable of the depth of the pushrod cup from the the top edge; that dimension can vary between different brand/design cups.
My son and I measured ball tip to cup top, and then figured out the depth of the measuring pushrod cup (from the cup top edge to the cup bottom) and subtracted that out to get effective length. Then we could use that effective length to adjust to any new tip-to-top length based on the cup design we chose.
We ended up using a 'corrected' tip-to-top length for our pushrod build, based on the Comp Cams cup dimensions and effective length. (Hope that makes sense!)
You can measure from ball tip to cup top, like you suggest, but they recommend what they call 'effective pushrod length' which is more accurate, and takes out the variable of the depth of the pushrod cup from the the top edge; that dimension can vary between different brand/design cups.
My son and I measured ball tip to cup top, and then figured out the depth of the measuring pushrod cup (from the cup top edge to the cup bottom) and subtracted that out to get effective length. Then we could use that effective length to adjust to any new tip-to-top length based on the cup design we chose.
We ended up using a 'corrected' tip-to-top length for our pushrod build, based on the Comp Cams cup dimensions and effective length. (Hope that makes sense!)
Krooser
Building Chinese Free Engines since 1959...
OK, I finished up the bores today, any comments on the crosshatch?
Run it?
Boat anchor?
Run it?
Boat anchor?
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Looks ok to me. Since "I" said that, everyone will come a long and tell you what trash it is.
Has a decent crosshatch & angle,looks good to me Bruce.
Cool thanks. I kept looking at it and was thinking so.
Actually, it shows better in the pic for some reason.
Actually, it shows better in the pic for some reason.
Probably because you're gettin old and blind and the flash is better than the light you have.
lmao
Krooser
Building Chinese Free Engines since 1959...
Well I can say you are farther along with your 360 projects than I am...:finga:
Krooser
Building Chinese Free Engines since 1959...
If you want a good custom car for your rally build look at Camcraft, Bullet (old Ultradyne grinds) and Jones Cams. If you are running a solid roller a bushing on the roller will give you better service over needle bearings, too. But you REALLY have to open your wallet wide for those as they are in the $900 range... whew!:wack:
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Yeah.... I am now thinking I can buy a LOT of oil changes with Joe Gibbs Driven LS30 high zinc synthetic at $12 per quart for what a roller will cost and just stick with a low $$ flat tappet cam.
I will look at those cam makers too; thanks!
I will look at those cam makers too; thanks!
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