360 build questions.

-
Bad Sport

Bad Sport

HALF A BUBBLE OFF
Staff member
Legendary Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
44,805
Reaction score
34,730
Location
The Wolverine State
I am curious, do these lock on to the guide somehow, or do they just slip on? Do they stay in place well?

I had thought there was some type of ring that locked them on.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/man-24046-8/overview/

man-24046-8_w_ml.jpg
 
Inside the metal shell is ribbed rubber. You can tap them on using a socket or special tool. They are taller than an OEM seal usually so cutting the guide down is the right way to do it.
 
mderoy340 said:
Inside the metal shell is ribbed rubber. You can tap them on using a socket or special tool. They are taller than an OEM seal usually so cutting the guide down is the right way to do it.
Click to expand...


So the ribs are what keeps it in place?

Why did I have the impression that there was some type of wire that clamps around them? It seems as though I have seen that.

Guides are cut, these appear to be the correct ones according to my measurements.

Thanks, I need to be sure of what I'm getting, I need to order them this afternoon.
 
Bad Sport said:
Any other input on these before I pull the proverbial trigger?
Click to expand...

Yea, your guides need to be the right size for those to stay down on them.
Otherwise they will come up when the valve does and stay up under the spring retainer.

(Not to freak you out at the last minute or anything) :D
 
They are machined to spec. But I could have sworn I have seen them with some type of wire clip/clamp.
 
Bad Sport said:
They are machined to spec. But I could have sworn I have seen them with some type of wire clip/clamp.
Click to expand...

Perfect circle brand has the rings you are wondering about, and they also make these that I also like a lot. (about .35 each) and ribbed inside the stem area for your extended pleasure, not hers. :D

No pun about stem size intended there. :D
 

Attachments

  • seal.jpg
    8.7 KB · Views: 863
Bruce take a look at a thread I started last week on exact same thing. You will see pics of ones I was looking for. Sealed power ST2002 is the # I wanted but in changeups they didnt come with 2 clips. I got Mahle #B45760.
I cant post pics/link as Im on my phone.
 
Are these the type that you're thinking of? These are Teflon and were commonly referred to as Crane seals.

Ted
 

Attachments

  • teflon seals.jpg
    7.2 KB · Views: 800
Yeah, I knew there were some with clips to hold them, I just couldn't find them. Thanks y'all, I just ordered the Viton seals that I posted above. I hope they do the trick!
 
I have done some follow up reading concerning using the Viton seals on the exhaust valves. It said there can be issues because of the heat in regards to oiling.

Has anyone heard or read this as well?
 
I've never heard that. I've got the Viton style seals on both intake & exhaust and there's no problem.
Sounds like another urban legend to me.

Ted
 
OK, I was reading Larry Shepard's book "How to hot rod Mopar smallblock engines", and in there he was talking about when going with lighter pistons that the crank needs weight removed, or sumpin like that.

I know 360's are externally balanced. Has anyone else done this?
 
Bad Sport said:
OK, I was reading Larry Shepard's book "How to hot rod Mopar smallblock engines", and in there he was talking about when going with lighter pistons that the crank needs weight removed, or sumpin like that.

I know 360's are externally balanced. Has anyone else done this?
Click to expand...

Not to wax 'mr' professor here Bad Sport,

Picture the standard V/8 90 # rod journal I.C.E. as 4 sets of 2 Cyl's grouped together.

'paired rotating groups' , need to be IMHO, within 4-6 1/2 grams of each other.

Mr Shepard is referring to Harmonic Grouping Resonance...

More simply, ???
picture all the rotating Mass winding up, weight removed to produce a more
'lineal' power transfer from 'reciprocating motion to linear motion'...

Where We (Mopar Addicts) have a distinct advantage over others is the high
Nickel content in Our production Blocks... = rock solid Main saddle alignment
at stupid power levels.

As an addendum Sir,
Internal or eternal balance is just a $ design function--- removed or added ---
by bean counters.

Apologies for the long winded reply,
Then again I have spent a bit of time involved in the topic :D
 
I actually PREFER the first seals you pictured. Nothing wrong with any of them though. I would have left well enough alone. You are over thinking it and wasting money, IMO.


Exhaust seals can actually be LEFT OFF and it will never hurt not one single thing. As long as oil is changed regularly and there is no sludge buildup you will never have not one single problem.

Where the problem arises is when people don't change the oil frequently enough. This causes sludge buildup which can affect oil drain back. If the oil gets high enough in the head, it "could" run over the exhaust valve guide and dribble down the valve stem into the cylinder and cause smoke on startup. All things in good shape, that will never happen.

Since there is not a vacuum on the exhaust side and only on the intake, oil cannot be sucked into the cylinder past the guide. LOTS of older engines never had exhaust seals right from the factory.

Want proof? Look at the early Hemi. When they are sitting in the engine bay, the tips of the exhaust valves point down. No way in the world is oil ever gonna run uphill and into the cylinder. The stems get plenty of splash lubrication.

Lots of engine builders leave exhaust seals off. I would not think anything of it for one single second.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I actually PREFER the first seals you pictured. Nothing wrong with any of them though. I would have left well enough alone. You are over thinking it and wasting money, IMO.
Click to expand...

Thanks, those are the one I got. Fit the machined guide perfect.
 
Bad Sport said:
OK, I was reading Larry Shepard's book "How to hot rod Mopar smallblock engines", and in there he was talking about when going with lighter pistons that the crank needs weight removed, or sumpin like that.

I know 360's are externally balanced. Has anyone else done this?
Click to expand...
Externally or internally balanced, any significant change of piston/pin/rod weight calls for a crank re-balance, and removing material on the throws would be the normal course of action for lower piston and pin weight.
 
nm9stheham said:
Externally or internally balanced, any significant change of piston/pin/rod weight calls for a crank re-balance, and removing material on the throws would be the normal course of action for lower piston and pin weight.
Click to expand...

That's what he was saying, I was hoping that wasn't the case, lol. I guess I will have to compare piston weights.

It will remain externally balanced due to cost.
 
Well, we are using 340 rods and KB hypereutectic pistons on a 273 cast crank in a 340 block; this rod/pin/piston and associated reciprocating weight should be almost identical to the 273/318 weights so the 273 crank should already be close to properly balanced with this rod/pin/piston combo, but we are still going through the balancing process. It is a good investment in smoother running and less internal engine stress for those few times we will be revving this engine, IMO.

What I am going through now is a 360 build plan, and looking at the lower reciprocating weight combo with hyper pistons, and wondering if the standard 360 crank throws will have enough weight on them to internally balance out the lighter hyper weights.

Soooooo......Does anyone here know what bobweight will internally balance on a standard 360 crank?
 
^^^
With respects Sir,

Post a pic of the Block # and build date, Rod #'s, I.e, are all the #'s the same/ from the same 'donor', and lastly the crank #...

Again with respects,
I am not trying to be 'professor xavier' here...
Just need a bit more info before I offer opine.

Thx.

P.s,
If... Your pocket book allows, there are High End shops that do balance procedures at Oil temps above 140 Deg :)
 
Tnx for the reply and interest; it's no problemo computing the bobweights here with the rod/piston parts. What I would like to know is:

If one had a standard cast 360 crank from an LA (not magnum), like 3418640 (which I just pulled out of my a..... err, off the internet....LOL), and you could attach bobweights that would balance with the stock, unmodified crank without the external damper and flywheel/flexplate weights, what would that bobweight be?

With that number, then one could work backwards with the usual piston and rod weights to see if there was a combo of lighter pistons, rods & parts, etc., that would compute up to that bobweight so that no added Mallory would be needed for an internal balance.

With forged pistons and such, I don't expect there will be any way. With hypers maybe, but it might also require some very lightweight rods which may be impractical. But there is some rod weight that can be taken off of the pads and the casting seams on the beams. And, the reciprocating weight associated with the rods can be reduced by boring into the crank centered at the rod journals in parallel with the crank axis; from what limited amount that I know, this is not uncommon.

(Plus I guess am assuming that the 360 counterweights are set in the same orientation to the rod journals as in an internally balanced engine and can be used uncut for an internal balance procedure.)

If this has all been discussed/worked over before, forgive my asking; I'd appreciate being pointed to the info.

And my pocketbook might allow the high temp oil (never heard of that one!), but this is for a lower buck project.
 
Internal or external, new slugs or old, have the assembly balanced. Factory balances can be off a bit. Having it redone done for a smoother and better engine at any rpm and even a higher one is something that boils down to cheap bucks spent over the entire cost of the build and cheaper in longer life of the engine.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top