Thanks for all the ideas and input. Unfortunately i need it running for work, until this weekend. Il pull the pan and see whats going on. Gonna pull and inspect the pump first. Then pull the main caps one at a time starting with the center one. If the crank is moving enough under load to cause this, shouldnt one side of the thrust surface of main bearing show a lot of wear? Ive seenthat on alot of sb chevy engines on rear main bearing. But usually they had a ton of hard mileage and were in manual trans equipped vehicles.
360 oiling problem under load
- Thread starter Dartish
- Start date
-
mderoy340
Well-Known Member
shouldnt one side of the thrust surface of main bearing show a lot of wear?
Yes
you may also have a converter ballooning pushing the crank forward.
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
The general rule on clearances is .001 for every inch of diameter, so .002 should be right in there.
If it was the oil pump drive it would also do it in neutral with RPM's.
If it was the oil pump drive it would also do it in neutral with RPM's.
Would the converter balloon even at lower rpm like 2000 to 3000rpm? Btw this engine is in my 86 Ram W250 right now. Built it to be a pump gas motor with good street manners. The idea was to run it in my truck until i get the old worn out 360 freshened up, then this spring, replace the cam with the 484" mopar hyd cam and a Performer Rpm to put in my 69 swinger to replace the 30yo solid lifter 340 so its a little more street friendly. 11..1 comp, mech cam and having to run leaded race fuel isnt as much fun as it used to be. Figured with the 4 speed and 4.88 gear, even a milder motor is still gonna be fun to drive, especially runing pump gas and not having to worry about lash adjustments.
I really don't see your issues being anything (IE cam gear, drive gear, thrust bearing wear) because this would have shown up as metal flakes in the oil filter when you cut it open. I can't wait to hear what you find when you drop the pan.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
If the intermediate shaft broke...you would have no oil psi. If the gear on it went south, you have no running engine because the cam turns both the distributor and oil pump and if that happened your timing would be so far off it wouldn't run...and besides, the mp hardened intermediate shaft gear is pinned so that gear can't spin loose from the shaft , gets rid of that old problem but still leaves the possibility of the motor running without oil psi...but we can install a psi kill switch if we wanted to, but point is those things are not the problem.
Debris in the pump relief is my first guess.
I ask about the crank end play, because I'm wondering if you wiped the thrust bearing out...but you would have oil psi still, the crank would hit the block before uncovering the oil passages/feed. You have not mentioned any crank walk or noise...that kinda rules that out.
It would be something else to find out you have studs in the mains and that rear one sticks up not letting the pump sit flush....that would be a doozy of an overlook.
Actually had a set of new main bolts and new head bolts i used from my father when he worked for Dodge dealership all his life. Hes pretty puzzled too as hes built MANY mopars from stock small blocks to 8000 rpm hemis and hes never seen these symptoms. Seems if bearings were the issue, id have plenty of evidence in the filter and would have low oil pressure at hot idle but its still the same as when assembled.
If debris in relief valve, wouldnt it cause peessure drop hot or cold and even in neatral when revved up?
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
Uh huh.
Maybe not hot or cold, but for sure in neutral.
Everything I'm reading is telling me it's a cavitation issue with the pump (like it's sucking air), but you would think it would also do the same in neutral.
Thats whats getting me even more frustrated. No metal in filter kinda rules out bearings. No problems in neatral revving as hi or as long as i want. ONLY in gear under a load at operating temp. If i had hair id be pulling it all out about now! If i had a dummy light instead of a gauge, id never even know this is happening and id probably be picking parts out of the pan by nowUh huh.
Maybe not hot or cold, but for sure in neutral.
Everything I'm reading is telling me it's a cavitation issue with the pump (like it's sucking air), but you would think it would also do the same in neutral.
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
You know, just for the fun of it check the cam while the distributor is out and make sure it's not walking forward and back.
Reach in there with something and push the cam gear forward and back to see what it's end play is.
One would think if the cam moved that much it would change the timing enough to notice, but just in case.
It would only have to move about 1/2 inch to uncover the oil holes in the bearings.
mderoy340
Well-Known Member
I'm not a tranny guy but I believe converter pressure is steady under load. (Maybe one of the experts will comment about this) If the converter expands it moves forward just like a stick car when the clutch pedal is pushed. Definitely check crank end play and converter clearance to flex plate when everything is opened up underneath.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
This going to turn out to be something really goofy. Ill check in on this thread in few days or so for the punchline.lol
I wenthru every passage with brushes,soap and water bath,and blew everything out after it was hot tanked. This was AFTER the achine shop blew everything out to make sure everything was open after they installed cam bearings and this problem didnt show its ugly head til about 4000 miles. Im prettyconfident it was all clean. Everyone tells me ive got ocd when it comes to cleaning and checking clearances. Not saying i didnt overlook something, but its very unlikely since it ranfine and still has same oil pressure as when i built it until i climb a hill and ease into throttle or or try speeding up to pass a car. Very light load the op doesnt drop, but go from steady rpm and speed to 1/3 or more throttle it drops. Heres a NEW one to add to the list! Started it this morning after sitting overnight and had a lifter tick for just a second til op got up. Not even a full second but its never done it before. Maybe coincidence???? Theyre sumnit brand lifters and camdirt dobber nest in an oil passage
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
It may have never stopped with that lifter loading it's valve before...Or you are really looking for every little thing now!
Well well well, everybody ready to hear the problem?????? While i had it in the shop, i was checking the carb,cap,rotor etc and noticed oil leaking out of my new Accel coil, new Accel cap and rotor were all burnt looking inside with brush to coil tower about gone. Did this cuz i noticed it seemed pretty sluggish, was burning alot of fuel and running rich. Put an old 20yr old coil on, have to get cap and rotor tomorrow. Put a fram filter on against my better judgement but its all i had. Drained oil and refilled with some 10w40 i had. No zinc additive or lucas stabilizer, which ive ran in ALL my flat tappet motors and theyv all got hi miles on them. Drove home. Idled and ran same pressure as before. Just outta curiosity, i eased into it going up a hill, no drop in pressure. Got into it a iittle more. Finally kiked it into low, wot and ran it thru the gears up to 5500. NO DROP or flutter on the gauge. Gonna run it some more tomorrow. NEVER had a filter do this only under a load and after the oil warmed up
Not sure whats up with the ticking lifter or if its just a bad lifter. It ticks after sitting for a night but goes away almost instantly. Im sure its not gonna fix itself, but iv got a new set of Comp Cams hyd i can put in. Not sure where those summit lifters are made, but i dont trust them now. Bad check valve letting it bleed off overnight so how long b4 the next one goes
So it was the oil filter? What brand was it?
It was a genuine mopar brand filter. I noticed one pleat folded over. The fil er didnt look plugged or dirty and it certainly didnt act like it. Ive seen them lose a few psi when dirty, but ive never seen one show symptoms like this. Im guessing the lifter is just a bad lifter and not sure it has anything to do with tbe problems i was having. After seeing the new coil leaking and the burnt cap and rotor, whats a guy have to do to get a quality part now?????
Sounds like you should be running a ballast resistor? Are you running resistor plug wires and or plugs?
Has factory resistor, Accel super stock plug wires, whickh will be heade to the trash can with all the other accel crap.Champion RN 12yc plugs. Thik that coil was causing a buch of resistance and smoked cap and rotor? Never seen a new coil puke all its oil in 2 months out the top
My past experience with leaking coils is when they are super hot! Like any other liquid when they are heated they expand. This is why I asked about a resistor. I haven't ran Accel parts in many many years. I'm kinda partial to MSD.
i think msd is the way to go but i got a deal on my ignition parts from local speed shop since ive sent alot of business his way and he had them on hand and i needed them that day. Other option was Auto Zones finest quality junk.
I put a 30 yaer old rusty factory coil on and it fired up and runs wayyyyyy cleaner and crisper. Like the accel did new. Think il be getting a blaster coil, mount it in rubber grommets on firewall and dig thru my garage. Iv got a couple new factory mopar cap and rotor sets somewhere back when they still made them in USA with good material. Already ordered some Taylor street wires. Ran lots of those. Love the tight snap fit and never had one get brittle or crack
-
