360 Re-Ring? Temporary Engine. Will it run fer a year?

[Rice Nuker]

Hi All,

Have this 74 360 4-bar TQ motor / 727 trans was going to put back in my car. I mean it came out of my car and was running smooth and fine. Has 125k on it.

Since I mainly want to just drive around and shake down the suspension while I build my nine-million horse power 440..

I was thinking of re-ringing the 360 motor, leaving in the original cam bearings, maybe try to hone the cylinders a little, just new freeze plugs and pressure wash the engine oil passages and motor out best I can before assembly, stock valves and job on the heads w/ mild springs, mild cam, new bearings, oil pump, rpm intake, carb spacer, thermoquad, summit headers. Hopefully I will get 500 hp. Just kidding, hopefully I will get like 250 - 300 hp and it will last me a year of mild driving.

My question is:

any body do this re-ring overhaul and have any luck with a 360 motor lasting for a year or so? I guess it all depends on the crank and cylinders which I have not looked at.


Second question, on a mild spring / cam, stock valve job and valves, can I use the factory valve retainers and keepers?

Third, what the heck kind of honing should I do on the cylinders? Bead hone? Rigid hone? I used a rigid once and it was a colossal failure as the motor started blowing by in 1 month.

Any thoughts will be appreciated, regardless of what they are.

 

[LXguy]

If I were in your shoes, I'd do a bead hone. Actually, I'd just try to find a reasonable mileage 89-91 hydraulic roller 360 at the junkyard and use that as is!

I'd say the answer depends primarily on what kind of shape the block is in now and how many miles you drive in a year.

If it was running good, why pull it? Did you leak it down?

depending on cam and RPM predictions, I'd guess you'd be ok with the factory keepers and such, barring the 74 using some weird fragile thing, but I'm not buying you a new motor if it drops a valve either! ;)

Good luck!

Steve

 

[Rice Nuker]

Hehe, Yea the motor had a rusted out freeze plug or two and also I pulled it because of this...

Stripped Steamed, sandblasted, epoxied and painted the undercarriage. Olive Drab Metallic. Working on blasting and epoxying cabin now. Next is exterior.

Just talked to hughes they said whiplash cam best bet. Springs lifters cam. Those guys are nice.


:thumbrig:

 

[67Dart273]

The old factory retainers/ keepers on my 340 heads used to routinely spin 65-7K in my old Landcruiser

I see nothing wrong with a re-ring, and depending on cylinder taper/ wear, it might just last a lot longer that a year.

But in this day and age, 125K is not a huge amount of miles, what makes you think you need to ring it?

 

[LXguy]

That's badass!

I've been pretty happy with the stuff I've gotten from Hughes. I've been around a couple cars with those Whiplash cams, and they are pretty fun for a mild combo.

Steve

 

[67Signet]

But I would prefer the Hughes product!. imho
Hey nice work on the project!
I like the color choice, what rear are you going to run whith what tire combo?
Props and please keep up with the pictures.as you move along.
Bruce B.

 

[Rice Nuker]

So, I am just going to do the re-ring with a bead hone and have the heads freshened up. Drop the RPM the the TQ on an adapter plate.

Regarding tires and such. Well she aint an inline car although I really want one of them too. This will be pro touring style and I hope to spank some euro sports cars, and hopped up ricers on some winding roads or the track. Maybe. Depends on how my machine does.

It is console shift car factory 360.
It will not be tubbed. Will optimize back spacing and run 18x9 wheels with 275 or 255 40s.
So, 8-3/4 2.94 SG with a 727, low stall tight converter and a balanced steel crank 440 with good rods, pistons, with ported Stealth heads, BB M1 intake, maybe throttle body FI.
I did not know the stealth heads were Chinese or I would have not bought them over a year ago.
But for the time being I have an 8- 3/4 3.55 SG rebuilt and the 360 to put in there to shake the suspension down. Soon as possible I want to get me a 2.94 SG.
Going to put in biggest T bars I can get, biggest sway bars front and rear, tubular A arms, have 11.75 discs and 11 x 3 drums. Ride rough and carve some curves. Want to appear as factory as possible in all aspects other than wheels which will probably be like the torque thrust look. Glass 6pk hood, glass bumpers, relocate batt, alum champ radiator.

What I dont have yet is T bars, Tubular A arms, Front Sway bar, wheels N tires. M1 intake, TBI. Bumpers, hood, radiator.

Substitutes I do actually have and will sub on a temporary hopefully short term basis : 17x8 forged factory cobra wheels, great condition thermoquad, factory hood, bumpers, new autozone radiator.

The remaining missing items I must have b4 driving it.

Here are a few pics of some under hood work. I soaked the piss out of every seam with epoxy from SPI after sandblasting the metal bare. Then epoxied all the panels. I used eastwood's inside frame spray tubes (rattle can with long tubes) and soaked the piss out of the inside of all inside boxes and frame rails after blowing sand out of them for hours on end. Seam sealed what needed with urethane and then painted the under belly and engine compartment.

Well I got alot of work to do and I want to get this sucker on the road this summer. Wow, I wonder if that will happen.

:rambo: Thanks for checkin out my thread!

 

[Rice Nuker]

Thanks for the advice. Well, I assume being a carborated motor, it has had years of cold starts and those factory rings have to be pretty weak and worn by now. I did not do a compression test. I just figured I could freshen up the motor with out too much expense and get me a fun car to drive while I build my 440 which will take quite a while.

The old factory retainers/ keepers on my 340 heads used to routinely spin 65-7K in my old Landcruiser

I see nothing wrong with a re-ring, and depending on cylinder taper/ wear, it might just last a lot longer that a year.

But in this day and age, 125K is not a huge amount of miles, what makes you think you need to ring it?

 

[moper]

No reason to do anything if it's running well. Worn, yes, worn to warrant attention? No.

 

[Rice Nuker]

No reason to do anything if it's running well. Worn, yes, worn to warrant attention? No.

Ahhh, maybe I will just have the heads done. Add new oil pump. Drive it.

First step is compression test I suppose.

 

[Wheel Chock]

The engine is out. The cost of parts to re-ring is cheap and you will do the labor yourself.
I would dingle-ball hone it, install iron rings and inspect it while it's apart. Doing the heads and replacing the oil pump is also a good idea. If you go this way you should end up with a reliable engine for a reasonable cost. Measure the bores for taper and unless it's excessive, the engine should easily last a year or more.
The alternative is to put it back in as is and hope that it's ok. If it's not you'll have to pull it back out and start over.
Just my opinion, it's up to you, but I was in a similar situation with a 318 and just put it back in, I'm dealing with the consequences of that now.

 

[dano]

Disassembly will tell you a lot. If it ran fine, I would just leave it alone and use it as is and spend your money on the new engine/car. If you can, try to compression test it, I think you can outside of the car, just need to turn it over with the starter because by hand will not work. Every high mileage Iron ring engine I've ever disassembled, regardless of maintenance, had a ring ridge in the bores.

 

[dartjack]

I've done quite a few rerings with a rigid hone followed by the ball hone. The key is how much ridge you have. The rigid hone will tell you the definitively after a few revolutions. I like to hone the crap out of them with the rigid hone. The extra clearance will make them good rev'rs. Crosshatch the walls. Be sure to remove the oil galley plugs. A shotgun cleaning brush wotks wonders at getting the crud out of the oiling system.

 

[dartjack]

Oh. Really nice looking body too.

 

[Rice Nuker]

Yea using a hot battery, I will just turn it over on the ground since the 727 is still bolted to it. I will look up how to to a compression test. I remember someone said use heavy oil after the dry test to tell if it looses comp thru valves or rings.


Thanks for the replies and thinking about my situation folks!


.

 

[dano]

Yea using a hot battery, I will just turn it over on the ground since the 727 is still bolted to it. I will look up how to to a compression test. I remember someone said use heavy oil after the dry test to tell if it looses comp thru valves or rings.

I think this is your best bet. If it has good compression evenly, I'd use it as is.
If you get weak compression, then apply oil through the spark plug hole and retest, if you get better compression, then you have worn rings, or something like that.

 

[Rice Nuker]

I think this is your best bet. If it has good compression evenly, I'd use it as is.
If you get weak compression, then apply oil through the spark plug hole and retest, if you get better compression, then you have worn rings, or something like that.

Ahhh!. I am torn between new rings that may help my machine and old rings that may save me some money.

So, is there any major issue with re-ring? Any standard procedures? I guess mark it all w/ punch, clean the pistons, hone the cylinders, pull the oil plugs, pressure wash the block.
I did it on a toyota 42r something once and it was blowin oil out of the valve cover hole in 3 weeks. I did it on a 305 chevry once and it ran great till I wrapped it to 7 k every day for a month, then the crank broke in twain for some reason.

Any advice on re-ring procedures?

.

 

[krazykuda]

When you get the heads done, have the guy open up the intakes to 2.02 and run 340 valves. It will be worth it, I do it all the time.

I have done the rering and ball hone (with fresh bearings) on 318's and get 150 -250 k per build. Go for it...

 

[Rice Nuker]

This motor is going to be pretty basic. What 2.02 valves would you suggest? By "open up" would I have the seats cut for 2.02 then blend the seats into the bowl? Any suggestions on good reading for this upgrade? I guess the first step would be have heads tanked, checked and basic cut for 2.02 then take home, blend seats to bowl, gasket match.

Thanks!

 

[TylerW]

If you are building a new engine as you say you are, there is no reason to do ANYTHING to the 360 if it runs good and isn't smoking, and even THEN it'll probably run for a long time. All of ours have.

I would clean it, regasket it so it doesn't leak on your clean engine bay, do a spray paint rebuild and drop it in, nothing else.

Like Dave Ramsey says, you have to assign a purpose to your money, and spending money on an engine you say is temporary doesn't make a lot of sense, IMHO. ARE you building a 440?? THAT takes a lot of money.

 

[krazykuda]

This motor is going to be pretty basic. What 2.02 valves would you suggest? By "open up" would I have the seats cut for 2.02 then blend the seats into the bowl? Any suggestions on good reading for this upgrade? I guess the first step would be have heads tanked, checked and basic cut for 2.02 then take home, blend seats to bowl, gasket match.

Thanks!

Any good head guy can open the intake valve from 1.88 to 2.02. Mancini Racing has stock or stainless steel valves that you can use. Then open up the bowls and gasket match.