360 Won't Start!!

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dustUoff

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Ok guys... I just got done getting my 360 all put back together. I tore it down to put some higher compression pistons in it about 3 weeks ago. So last weekend I got it all put back together and went to start it and.... nothin. It just cranked and cranked. So I checked fuel at the carb which I had so I figured it must be spark... well after I checked a few things I knew I had spark too. So, my question is... it must be my timing right?? Now I played with my initial timing a little and the best I could get was some gas spitting up through the carb like a backfire. Now this is my first re-build like this so can you guys help?? What's going on? Is there anything internally that I could have screwed up? Or could it be a vacuum leak? Any help would be great guys thanks!
 
take the #1 plug out take a rage and push in the hole to close the hole bump the starter until you hear the motor kick the rage out and then stop look at your crank see where your marks are and if it before tdc turn it with your hand or what ever you need to turn it with to tdc then remove the dizzy cap and make sure your pointing towards #1 with the rotor...you my be off a little...if your not pointing in the right dir. youll have to pull the dizzy up and get it set in the right spot..i m sure someone has apic of what im talking about with the dizzy pointing the right way..hope this helps out mike
 
sounds like you might be 180 out on the distributer........make sure the rotor is pointing at #1 on the cap on the compression stroke......take #1 spark plug out, stick your finger in the hole, and bump it over until compression pushes your finger, chk. the line on the dampner and align it to zero on the scale. pull the dist. cap and see where the rotor is pointing. if its not pointing at #1 spark plug wire on the cap, pull the dist. back out and align it to #1. .............double chk. your firing order 18436572.......clockwise the rotor turns. let us know if that helps....
higgs
 
Yes i think Hollywood is right, that sounds like the distributor ist 180° wrong.
Pull it out, turn 180°, back in an it will run i think.
 
i'm gonna have to agree with the previous 180 out statement...you'll get a couple carb backfires when craking, but it wont run b/c you're 180 degrees out. flip it around and have someone crank while u turn the dist slowly, then get a timing light on it once it fires...if u have fuel and spark, theres not much more it could be.
 
How big are these pistons and how big is your cam? Is there any possibility that

the valves are hitting the pistons?

the valves are not adjusted correctly and are not closing?

IE do you have compression?

Otherwise, advice above on setting the timing is the thing
 
Sounds like a spark problem for some reason when messing with mopars, its always like the distrib is off 180. try it and let us know what you get
 
Ok guys thanks! I think I understand MOST of everything haha. My only other question is about the Dizzy. When you guys say pick it up and turn it around do mean I have to actually take the whole distributor OUT from the block, or do I just loosen the hold down bolt and turn it 180?
67Dart273-
The pistons aren't that much bigger so I can't believe they would be hitting the valves or anything... but I'll try this timing stuff and then move on from there! Thanks everyone, i'll let you know what i figure out
 
Sounds like a spark problem for some reason when messing with mopars, its always like the distrib is off 180. try it and let us know what you get

That's because with the cam and crank gear marks lined up it's on #6 firing, not #1. The mark on the cam gear would be straight up 12 o'clock position to be on #1.
 
As said pull #1 plug out put finger in the hole bump it over until compression pushes your finger out,at that point the mark on your ballencer should be very close to 0 on the timing cover.Now pop off the dizzy cap and see were the rotor points if it is pointing at the #6 on the cap,your 180 out.if so remove the hold down bolt pull dizzy up grab rotor turn to point at #1 on cap set back down tighten the bold a little that fire it up.The dizzy housing stays the same way vacuum canister pointing at the right valve cover.
 
you have to necisarily take it all the way out of the block just unuf to disengage the dist. from the oil pump drive shaft gear. good luck
 
sounds just like my 360 right now . My problem was the valves were not set right due to lifters not being pumped up. I put a set of the regular steel non adjustable rockers along with the push rods and it fired up. Good luck with your 360.
 
70408Dart-
How did you fix your lifter problem, I did have the engine apart for a few weeks, could that have affected my lifters?
 
Didn't really have a lifter problem at all. Just did not have the rockers adjusted correctly considering the lifters were not pumped up yet. So the valves were not opening and closing properly. Hope this doesn't sound to crazy as I'm new at this and had lots of help from a buddy of mine. We did start mine up yesterday for the first time and it sounds great.
 
Ok, so I did what you all described and made sure the distributor, rotor, and everything was set properly. So now I KNOW i'm on the compression stroke, the distributor is correct and the rotor is pointing to the #1 cylinder. Still getting nothing when I crank. Also pulled the drivers side valve cover to make sure both valves were closed when cylinder #1 fires... only thing I get now is some smoke coming from the open valve cover... I don't know... i'm really stumped!!
 
What do you have for an ignition system?? stock oem electronic, msd,??? how did you check for spark?? even if it is out of time you should get something, even a back fire, need more info.
 
Well try this have a look inside of you cap,if all 8 terminals are dirty carbon up you will get spark but not strong enough also your rotor could need cleaning.
 
THERE -- IS -- NO -- REASON to have to string these troubles out

You need THREE THINGS to make an engine run, and even engines in rather poor shape can be made to run

COMPRESSION You need compression. Do you have "any?" "some?" Pull the plugs and run a compression test. If it's real poor, none, throw a tablespoon of engine oil into each cylinder and check 'em again. If things don't improve, you have valve problems

FUEL You need fuel. Fuel that will burn. That means that if the car has been parked for some time, or even not drivin much, that full tank might be 2-3 years old? Prime the carb through the barrels with a squirt can/ bottle

IGNTION You need a good hot spark AND AT THE PROPER TIME. Crank the engine over with the coil wire held near a ground, and check for a good hot spark. Nice and blue, 3/8" or better. If not, take your 12V test lamp WHICH EVERY OWNER SHOULD HAVE, and remove the coil wire from the coil. Ground the test lamp, and use the probe near the coil tower. Test again. Spark should be VERY snappy and come at least to the top of the coil tower or better.

This spark must make it to the plugs. If the cap and rotor are dirty, wet, carbon tracked, cracked, baked looking, REPLACE them. Look over the plug wires. Check the wires with a meter for resistance. TAKE A GOOD LOOK at the plugs. Are they clean? fouled. REPLACE THE PLUGS

Timing-----Any chance the balancer has slipped, the marks wrong? CHECK them. Get/ make/ buy a "piston stop" like this

pic_installation.jpg


Remove the battery ground after making sure the no1 piston is "down aways" and install in the no1 plug hole. Use a wrench on the dampener bolt to turn engine until it stops. Make a temporary mark directly under TDC at the pointer onto the balancer. Turn the engine the opposite way CCW until it stops, and make a second mark.

Now you'll have two marks some distance apart. True TDC will be halfway in between, and if the factory mark is correct, that is where it'll be.

Now stick your finger into the no1 plug hole, bump the engine until your finger STARTS to get blown out, and look for the "marks." Bump/ wrench the engine until the marks are 5-8* BTDC for a stock cam, or 10-12 BTC or more for a hot cam.

Alternately, if you have either valve cover off, you can either look at no1 or no6 valves. Just bring the marks up to 5-8BTC as above, and look at the valves. If both no1 valves are closed, you are ready to fire on no1. If they are both somewhat open, you are ready to fire on no6. If you have the passenger side cover off, you can time it according to no6 valves. If the timing marks are "up" and both no6 valves are closed, no6 is ready to fire. If they are both open (split overlap) no1 is ready to fire. Install the distributor accordingly

THIS SHOULD BE near TDC on the compression/ firing stroke.

Pull the dist. cap. The rotor should be "approaching" the no 1 tower. I always scribe a line on the top rim of the dist. to indicate the no1 tower so I can see this with the cap off. SB engine dist's turn CW, so the rotor should be just to the left CCW of the tower. With the marks BTC as above, rotate the dist housing CW (retard) some, then slowly rotate CCW (advance) until the points just open, or until the reluctor is aligned with the center of the core of the pickup coil.

THIS ENGINE AT THIS POINT should start and run. Period.
 
67's given alot of info, and he's right it's not that tuff, if u have comp. spark and fuel, and everything's right w/the motor it should start. if it doesn't, there's another problem.

how'd your plugs look after all this....are they fowled?? probably are....if there black, or fuel soaked when u pull them out replace them.....
you have a bright blue spark at the plugs?? how about at the coil.....serious spark?
is your fuel system tight? ( right psi or fuel pressure, no vacuum leaks, raw fuel falling into the venturis causing a flooding condition)

advancing or retarding the timing at this point w/everything correct should surely cause backfire through the exhaust or carb......actually the damn thing should run.....i believe there's another problem.......double chk. your spark and fuel, install new plugs,... reload.

keep at it you'll find the problem.......the more info u can give us, the more we might be able to help.....
higgs
 
I went through same type of thing and once i knew i had the timing in the right spot it still wouldn't start (had gas and spark) then the choke was wide open on the carb we closed it and it fired right up.
 
Ok guys here's an update. So after messing with the timing about a million different ways :angry7:, I decided to take the drivers side head off just to make sure nothing was going on internally. Everything looked fine to me, no evidence of the pistons hitting the valves or anything like that. Also, my plugs were damp with fuel but not fouled so I know it's getting gas. So here are some other questions. My dad mentioned checking my spark plug gaps, I know that could make the car run bad but if it was just the gaps wouldn't it still atleast fire?? Also, is there any way to put the cylinder heads on the wrong side? I know they bolt up the same but if I put them on the wrong side does that mess up my quench and everything? I'm running closed chamber 318 heads, (i know, not great heads for this application, but that's all I can work with for now). Well I'm gonna try and spend some time with it this weekend so if you have any other suggestions please let me know! Thanks
 
after messing with the timing about a million different ways

There is no reason to "mess" with the timing, just SET it as outlined


I decided to take the drivers side head off just to make sure nothing was going on internally.

So you found it easier to pull a head that to just check the valve gear and run a compression check?


Also, my plugs were damp with fuel but not fouled so I know it's getting gas. So here are some other questions. My dad mentioned checking my spark plug gaps,

If they are damp they are probably fouled. HOW DO YOU KNOW that you have fresh fuel? How long has it been parked? That engine should start and run with plug gaps anywhere from .020 (or maybe less) clear out to .050 (or maybe more)


Also, is there any way to put the cylinder heads on the wrong side?

Nope. Mopar heads don't care which side they are on



At this point, and since you've had so much trouble, HERE IS WHAT I'd do

DO YOU HAVE A SHOP MANUAL?

Since you already tore into the engine, I'd pull the timing cover and check the camshaft timing. BE ABSOLUTELY SURE it is right

Reassemble the engine, and CAREFULLY examine the valve gear to be sure you have some valve clearance.

Then go back to my original post, use a piston stop to check your timing marks and set the timing as I outlined

THEN RUN A COMPRESSION CHECK Run first "dry" and then again with a squirt of oil in each cylinder.

Then now that you have the timing set RIGHT, CHECK the spark at at least 4 plugs to be sure you have nice hot spark.

Now install clean new plugs, give it a squirt of FRESH gas down the carb throat, and START the engine.
 
dude, put everything back together and do a compression chk.

pull all the plugs, make sure the battery is charged up and test each cylinder. turn the motor over w/the starter about 5 times on each cylinder, or until it stops building pressure on the gauge. take the reading and write it down, it should be about 125-150 psi or so........anything less than a 100 is a problem.

then post up your results, that will tell u what to do next.......u need to do this before anything else at this point. savvy???
higgs
 
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