3G Wiring help

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Ian30

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Austin, TX
I am using a stock harness for a 2004 5.7 Hemi w/auto. I got the engine to start, but it revs up, then down, then up a little and dies. It does this every time unless I depress the throttle all the way down and keep it there. At that point it will stay running at a very fast idle until I let the pedal up. I haven't had too much time to troubleshoot but I'm hoping someone here can help me with some ideas as my 10 month old child doesn't allow me much time to work on it. Could this have something to do with the security? or would that keep it from starting? Anyway, any ideas for me to check out would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance, Ian
 
From what I've heard, the security system will let the car start, run for a few seconds, then die. Pretty sure it dies regardless of throttle position but I don't know for sure. I read where at least one of the years only lets you do that three times before it won't even start again unless you pull the battery and let it sit unplugged for a while to reset it before you get another three shots.
 
Does anyone know how to check if its the security system activating? or suggest a way to bypass?
 
OK, after a little more reading it appears that it could be SKIM - is there any way to verify this without pulling codes? Do I need to send the PCM to B&G to have it disabled? They charge $230 to disable it or $450 to change the tune and disable a few more unnecessary items. Is the revised tune worth the extra money? Any input is appreciated as i can't find any reviews on the "nostalgia tune". Just people that seem to be happy with other tunes for stock cars.
 
it very well could be a SKIM issue. Have you contacted chris at hotwire? I think they are cheaper than B&G. But I don't know if they can turn it off. Give me some details on the PCM. What is it out of? I might be able to help you even cheaper. That is if you have the right set up. I need to know the year make and model that the PCM came out of. And I'll see what I can do for you. Have you installed any custom tuning on it yet? Do you have a diablo tuner? Give me as much info as you can. Thanks.
 
on a side note I have a friend in tracy ca that knows a ton about the hemi. And would probably be willing to help you out. If he is ok with it I could put you in touch with him. He has a heavly modded dodge ram and loves the opertunity to turn a wrench.
 
If it were me the first thing I think I would look at is the throttle position sensor, but that could just be a shot in the dark. I think you may need a scan tool to diagnose this accurately.

Here's some possible causes for a start and stall condition. I just copied and pasted from the service manual. Good luck!

CURRENT PCM DTCS
CURRENT SKIM DTCS
THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR SWEEP
TP SENSOR NO.1 VOLTAGE GREATER THAN 0.92 VOLTS WITH THROTTLE CLOSED
ECT SENSOR
OTHER POSSIBLE CAUSES FOR START AND STALL CONDITON
FUEL CONTAMINATION

Diagnostic Test
1. CHECKING DTCS
Ignition on, engine not running.
With a scan tool, read DTCs.
Are any DTCs present?
Yes >> Refer to the appropriate Diagnostic Procedure.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE - STANDARD PROCEDURE)
No >> Go To 2

2. CHECKING SKREEM DTCS
NOTE: If you are unable to communicate with the SKIM/SKREEM, refer to the VEHICLE THEFT AND SECURITY
ELECTRICAL DIAGNOSTICS in Section 8 and perform the appropriate diagnostics.
With the scan tool, read the SKIM codes.
Are there any SKIM DTCs?
Yes >> Refer to the Sentry Key Vehicle Theft Security Electrical Diagnostics in Section 8.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE - STANDARD PROCEDURE)
No >> Go To 3

3. TP SENSOR SWEEP
Ignition on, engine not running.
With the scan tool read TP Sensor voltage.
While monitoring the scan tool, slowly open and close the Throttle on vehicles equipped with a 3.7L or 4.7L engine.
On vehicles equipped with a 5.7L engine, using a scan tool perform the pedal follower test and monitor both TP Sensor voltage readings.
Was the voltage change smooth?
Yes >> Go To 4
No >> Replace the Throttle Position Sensor on a 3.7L and 4.7L engines or the Throttle Body Assembly on a 5.7L engine.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE - STANDARD PROCEDURE)

4. TP SENSOR NO.1 VOLTAGE GREATER THAN 0.92 VOLTS WITH THROTTLE CLOSED
With the scan tool, read Throttle Position Sensor No.1 voltage.
Throttle must be against its stop.
Is the voltage 0.92 or less with the Throttle closed?
Yes >> Go To 5
No >> Check for a binding throttle condition. If OK, replace the Throttle Position Sensor or the Throttle Body Assembly on a 5.7L.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE - STANDARD PROCEDURE)

5. ECT SENSOR OPERATION
NOTE: For this test to be valid, the thermostat must be operating correctly.
NOTE: This test works best if performed on a cold engine (cold soaked).
NOTE: If the vehicle was allowed to sit over night with no engine start, coolant temperature should be near ambient temperatures.
Ignition on, engine not running.
With the scan tool, read the ECT value.
NOTE: If engine coolant temperature is above 82° C (180° F), allow the engine to cool until 65° C (150° F) is reached.
Start the engine.
During engine warm-up, monitor the Engine Coolant Temperature value. The temperature value change should be a smooth transition from start up to normal operating temp 82° C (180° F). The value should reach at least 82° C
(180° F).
Did the Engine Temperature value increase smoothly and did it reach at least 82° C (180° F)?
Yes >> Go To 6
No >> Replace the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE - STANDARD PROCEDURE)

6. OTHER POSSIBLE CAUSES OF START AND STALL CONDITION
The following additional items should be checked as a possible cause for a start and stall condition.
Refer to any Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) that may apply to the symptom.
The exhaust system must be free of any restrictions.
The engine compression must be within specifications.
The engine valve timing must be within specifications.
The engine must be free from vacuum leaks.
The throttle body must be free of carbon buildup and dirt.
Do any of the above conditions exist?
Yes >> Repair as necessary.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE - STANDARD PROCEDURE)
No >> Go To 7

7. FUEL PUMP DELIVERY
Verify that the Fuel tank is not empty before continuing.
Follow the diagnostics for Checking Fuel Delivery in this manual.
Was the No Start condition solved after following the above diagnostic test?
Yes >> Test Complete.
No >> Check for contamination/water in the fuel. Ensure the fuel being used in this vehicle meets manufactures
Fuel Requirement, refer to the service manual.
Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 9 - ENGINE - STANDARD PROCEDURE
 
the changing revs won't be SKIM-related. The dying after a few secs could be.
 
Thanks everyone for the suggestions, it looks like I really need to set up the OBD 2 port to see whats going on. I dont have any of the wiring harness from the firewall in, but I have all the wires for the port marked, just need to get the conector from the junkyard and wire it up. I want to make sure the SKIM is my problem before sending out my PCM. I talked to B&G today and they said it is no problem to turn it off as well as anything else I wanted done. He also said the tune with the revised timing and fuel mapping would net 20-40 HP depending on other things. I'll update on my progress when I make some.
 
man if it's a skim issue I can help you out and save you over $100 on their price. I just need the info I asked ya for. Although you would still have a stock tune but you are really close to one of the best tuners I know. I'll be draging my car up to sac to have it tuned if that is any indication on how good they are. And we have several diecent shops here in phoenix that could do it.....
 
Thanks 03ramit1 - I found someone to loan me a scantool and I will head to the junkyard on saturday for the obd2 connector - so hopefully by monday I can get the time to get this figured out.
 
If you need the connector I have a complete harness let me know.

Thanks for the offer, but I picked up a connector from an Intrepid at PIck n Pull today and reconfigured it for the Hemi. Hoping to get this sorted out by Monday.
 
I would have to agree with boden. It definitely sounds more like a TPS problem than a security one. The security would just shut it off period. It would not care where the throttle is.
 
Well, it looks like hooking up a scantool paid off big time. I found that the TPS was not registering. Couldn't figure out why, so I started checking continuity in my harness and finally found two of the wires had been cut somehow underneath the crossover spark plug wires on top of the intake manifold. Thanks everyone for the offers and advice. It is awesome to hear this roaring finally. And it looks like it's a 2005 from the vin code in the PCM and not a 2004 which is what I was told.:toothy8:
 
great to hear you tracked it down. I can't wait to hear mine fire up either. Of course that would mean actually setting aside some time to work on the harness.
 
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