416 is up and running but leaking baddly

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michformulaS

michformulaS

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I finally fired up my newly built 416 this week and drove it about 20 miles up to the muffler shop to get some exhaust hooked up. It was a nice drive with open headers. Temp was good and oil pressure held at about 60 to 70 psi. When we got it up on the hoist there was an oil leak at the front of the pan. Being I have 7 quarts in it and it lost less than a quart on the way up I drove it home. By the time I got home it was leaking pretty bad. It looks like the front rubber gasket squeezed out on one side and squeezed in on the other. Looks like the motor has to come back out to fix it as there is no room around the pan with the K member, steering and headers. Being I have about 10 grand into the motor and installation this year it is very frustrating. Hopefully I can have it fixed by next weekend.
 
michformulaS said:
I finally fired up my newly built 416 this week and drove it about 20 miles up to the muffler shop to get some exhaust hooked up. It was a nice drive with open headers. Temp was good and oil pressure held at about 60 to 70 psi. When we got it up on the hoist there was an oil leak at the front of the pan. Being I have 7 quarts in it and it lost less than a quart on the way up I drove it home. By the time I got home it was leaking pretty bad. It looks like the front rubber gasket squeezed out on one side and squeezed in on the other. Looks like the motor has to come back out to fix it as there is no room around the pan with the K member, steering and headers. Being I have about 10 grand into the motor and installation this year it is very frustrating. Hopefully I can have it fixed by next weekend.
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I am just about done with a 410 stroker and I worry about the same thing. My machinist is going to let me borrow his engine break in machine just for this reason. With Headers, steering, big oil pans etc all being in the way I figure I will run and break it in out of the car so any oil leaks etc if any can be fixed before installation........or DYNO will do the same. I just dont like how those guys break them in scares me to see and hear a 10k+ motor being abused just to have some numbers on paper to brag about. I do undertand the tuning aspect of the whole DYNO, but abuse is a different story. A friend of mine took his stroker in after HE built it and the DYNO guy did a great job of over revving it and it blew up right on the spot....bye bye 10k just like that!! Then he tells the guy well you need to get the POS out of here and oh yeah you need to PAY ME FOR DOING IT!!
 
I will try and get a couple pictures today. It's very tight in there with the 8 quart Milodon pan. We had to grind a little on the K member to get clearance when the motor torqued in the engine bay.....which leads to another question. With new motor mounts my motor sure moves around alot. It almost looks like it is sitting on Jello. It moves to the point I think I need to chain down the driver's side. If I have to lift the motor to fix the pan leak is there another style mount other than stock I should replace these with?
 
michformulaS said:
I will try and get a couple pictures today. It's very tight in there with the 8 quart Milodon pan. We had to grind a little on the K member to get clearance when the motor torqued in the engine bay.....which leads to another question. With new motor mounts my motor sure moves around alot. It almost looks like it is sitting on Jello. It moves to the point I think I need to chain down the driver's side. If I have to lift the motor to fix the pan leak is there another style mount other than stock I should replace these with?
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With all the torque it WILL break the stock style motor mounts. Call Mancini and get some SOLID mounts. Cheap about 30.00, if you do break a mount, you will have a BIG mess on your hands like the Radiator not to mention BENT headers etc..............Change them out when you pull the motor for sure!!
 
drop the center link...loosen up the pan bolts...and see if you can pull the pan seal back .....
 
I can never get these pictures to upload. I know I have seen many posts on this but how the heck to you make a 1mb picture 56kb?
 
Mad Dart said:
DYNO will do the same. I just dont like how those guys break them in scares me to see and hear a 10k+ motor being abused just to have some numbers on paper to brag about. I do undertand the tuning aspect of the whole DYNO, but abuse is a different story. A friend of mine took his stroker in after HE built it and the DYNO guy did a great job of over revving it and it blew up right on the spot....bye bye 10k just like that!! Then he tells the guy well you need to get the POS out of here and oh yeah you need to PAY ME FOR DOING IT!!
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Who did the over-revving blow up, because that stuff needs to be known. If the engine owner walked in and said, "this thing will run to 8500", when it shouldn't see the other side of 6200, welll... I'd still put most of that on the dyno operator, because they have to know what going on the pump. If it won't run what the owner think it will they have to make the choice. Most good operators sneak up on the high rpm range and not full kill them right off the bat.

IMHO, When a dyno is used appropriately, they can't be beat for usefulness.

Break in is very old tech and not needed when you have good machining tolerances. If the work was done correctly, you should be able to fire it up, get the cam broken in, rings seated and beat the dogsnot out of it. Even in the 80's I used to break in the cam and next duty it got was a full tilt blast/burnout.
 
Mad Dart said:
I just dont like how those guys break them in scares me to see and hear a 10k+ motor being abused just to have some numbers on paper to brag about. I do undertand the tuning aspect of the whole DYNO, but abuse is a different story. A friend of mine took his stroker in after HE built it and the DYNO guy did a great job of over revving it and it blew up right on the spot....bye bye 10k just like that!! Then he tells the guy well you need to get the POS out of here and oh yeah you need to PAY ME FOR DOING IT!!
Click to expand...

Its not just for numbers. Its for tuning and proper ring seal.
Any competent dyno operator would know when to let off. If not he shouldn't dyno engines.
But if it blew under normal dyno break-in procedure, it wasn't built right to begin with.
 
Babyblue66 said:
Its not just for numbers. Its for tuning and proper ring seal.
Any competent dyno operator would know when to let off. If not he shouldn't dyno engines.
But if it blew under normal dyno break-in procedure, it wasn't built right to begin with.
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Amen brother.
The shop I use has a dyno and a great operator. They pull light load, steady rpms while the cam's being broken in. Then drop the oil, check for leaks, cut the filter open, install the inner springs, replace the oil and filter, and then do power pulls to tune it. On a $10K engine, 10% ($1K) is nothing to ensure the rings are seated properly and get an idea of the power curves. A race car must have that info to pick gears and convertor. It's not for bragging rights. It's for dialing on the entire combination.
Interestingly, it's been a joke as to how long engines from a local-to-me mopar specific builder will last on their dyno as he doesnt own one but books time on theirs. Some are repeats having not had oil pressure during the cam breakin, some the rings butted and the pistons came apart, some the bearings didnt survive the cam break in and the oil pressure dropped. That kind of thing gets expensive and reflects directly back on the assembler.
 
crackedback said:
Who did the over-revving blow up, because that stuff needs to be known. If the engine owner walked in and said, "this thing will run to 8500", when it shouldn't see the other side of 6200, welll... I'd still put most of that on the dyno operator, because they have to know what going on the pump. If it won't run what the owner think it will they have to make the choice. Most good operators sneak up on the high rpm range and not full kill them right off the bat.

IMHO, When a dyno is used appropriately, they can't be beat for usefulness.

Break in is very old tech and not needed when you have good machining tolerances. If the work was done correctly, you should be able to fire it up, get the cam broken in, rings seated and beat the dogsnot out of it. Even in the 80's I used to break in the cam and next duty it got was a full tilt blast/burnout.
Click to expand...

Same here, break the cam in , change the oil, and go go go
I do hear of people spending WAY TOO MUCH money on their motors only to not have the parts that were supposed to be inside, hastily tossed together and shipped out. Most eventually lose ring seal, drop/float valves and or blowup.
I've seen guys pay bookoo only to tear there engine apart and find worn out recycled race parts from the builders last season motor. not good.
 
Sorry, but my life doesn't let me reply all that fast....I called Rick as soon as I got home and said this thing is leaking badly I need you to come over with your race trailer and get this car to fix the leak....he said no problem. He came over Wednesday with his race trailer with a winch and looked the leak over and was visably frustrated....He said there is a first for everything. I asked him what he meant and he said he hasn't had a leak on anything he built in the past. He put the car in his trailer and told me he would fix it right and I could drive it home Monday. Stand up guy! Drive home is about 70 miles and he came to get the car. I will give everybody and update but Lapouttre racing (racingengines.com) seems to be standing behind his work. Good guy! Also I am going with the Schumacher torque strap to ensure that this motor is tied down correctly....I know I have seen that this is a waste of money because you can tie it down yourself for cheaper but solid mounts in a street car is no what I want and from what I have seen Schumacher knows what they are doing....Can't take chances now after I am 10k+ into a motor
 
you said it was leaking at the front of the pan, Couldnt you have removed the timing cover and fixed the seal ? it is about an 2 hour job or less. But it looks like you got it fixed.
 
CHEATHAM said:
you said it was leaking at the front of the pan, Couldnt you have removed the timing cover and fixed the seal ? it is about an 2 hour job or less. But it looks like you got it fixed.
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When we talked Wednesday that was the plan. Pull the timing cover and reseal it. Good call. Thanks
 
That's great the builder said he would fix the leak. I know a guy who spent 5k on a 440 rebuild last year. He just got the engine running and broke in last week. The rear main is leaking badly. The builder "Thunder Valley Auto" says he will not fix it. He said all those 440s leak and he will have to pay to get it fixed. He's a Chebby guy and the last 3 440's he's done all had leaking rear main seals. But he thinks he's the best.
 
Sounds like a good guy. I've spent 1/2 the cost of a second machined block, repaired a leaky rear main I put 1/2 in backwards, and re-ringed another one because the customer couldn't tune a Holley at one point or another in the past. It sucks when things don't go the way they should have from everyones' point of view.

I should add I built a running stand to make sure things are right BEFORE it gets to the car now...lol
 
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