416 Upgrade

-
EXcappa

EXcappa

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 4, 2014
Messages
151
Reaction score
24
Location
QLD Australia
Hey All,

I have a 416 cube 360 with eddy heads. Cam is a comp SFT 256/265@50
11.5:1 comp
The engine made 565hp @6400rpm / 522tq.

I'm looking to step it up a bit more and thinking of a bit more cam and better heads.
Should i get my heads ported to something like the Hughes big mouth or change to something like the Indy 360's

It's just a weekend car so the cam is a bit tame for my liking.
I'm thinking of another SFT with about another 10 degree.

Maybe a cam change will do it, i don't really know.
Heads flow [email protected], [email protected]

What do you all think.
 
EXcappa said:
Hey All,

I have a 416 cube 360 with eddy heads. Cam is a comp SFT 256/265@50
11.5:1 comp
The engine made 565hp @6400rpm / 522tq.

I'm looking to step it up a bit more and thinking of a bit more cam and better heads.
Should i get my heads ported to something like the Hughes big mouth or change to something like the Indy 360's

It's just a weekend car so the cam is a bit tame for my liking.
I'm thinking of another SFT with about another 10 degree.

Maybe a cam change will do it, i don't really know.
Heads flow [email protected], [email protected]

What do you all think.
Click to expand...
Are you running it on the track
 
Heads are always money well spent so long as they are setup and done properly.

I'd get a hold of IQ52 about the heads. He can also set you up with a custom cam.

As far as an off the shelf cam that matches what you are describing the Howards 720782-08 might fit the bill.
 
EXcappa said:
Hey All,

I have a 416 cube 360 with eddy heads. Cam is a comp SFT 256/265@50
11.5:1 comp
The engine made 565hp @6400rpm / 522tq.

I'm looking to step it up a bit more and thinking of a bit more cam and better heads.
Should i get my heads ported to something like the Hughes big mouth or change to something like the Indy 360's

It's just a weekend car so the cam is a bit tame for my liking.
I'm thinking of another SFT with about another 10 degree.

Maybe a cam change will do it, i don't really know.
Heads flow [email protected], [email protected]

What do you all think.
Click to expand...


What is your goal? Do you have an ET you want, or just dyno number bragging rights??

Either is ok for me, but if you are making what you say you are for power, in an A body, correctly set up, you should be in the high 10's already.
 
I haven't had it to the track yet, nearest track is about 2 hours drive and its getting too hot here now so i will wait till next year to run
Vehicle is 3570 pounds with me in it so yes i should be somewhere near a high ten.
I want to eventually run a low - mid ten, to do that i may need a bit over 600hp.

Plus i just have an urge to spend money and want better than what i have now.
 
EXcappa said:
I haven't had it to the track yet, nearest track is about 2 hours drive and its getting too hot here now so i will wait till next year to run
Vehicle is 3570 pounds with me in it so yes i should be somewhere near a high ten.
I want to eventually run a low - mid ten, to do that i may need a bit over 600hp.

Plus i just have an urge to spend money and want better than what i have now.
Click to expand...


Didn't notice you were upside down.

I say the hell with it, if you want to spend your money and you got it, GO FOR IT. You earned it so make it how you want.


If I was spending your money I would never use a production based port. The Indy head is a better deal than the big mouth, IMHO.
 
I remember now they were HPE's. Have you put a carb bigger than 750 on it? And you got bigger pipes in it didnt you? Maybe go a reasonable solid roller in the 260/270 range and you might see a 20 hp gain or go bigger and bump the comp up to 13. If you go bigger heads you really need high compression and a solid roller to take advantage of the heads anyway. Just my opinion
 
Yes Mate that is correct Pete built the engine and ported the heads.

Problem is Pete has got a great reputation and is always so busy. I thought if I could get the heads sorted elsewhere then he could put it all together.

Not interested in big comp, race fuel or NOS. It has to be a pump fuel deal
 
I dont think you will get much more from those heads. He opened the ports upwards instead of the pushrod pinch but they probably have the same csa as a set of big mouths. You can go roller cam for another 20hp and maybe go to E85 for another 5% gain
 
I would not change the compression ratio. Going with more duration will add power but do remember that the rpm power band (should) move upwards.

I'm not so sure the money spent on "Big Mouth" heads would be worth it. Here's why. For the money spent, you will be maxing out the stock replacement heads ability. While I do believe there will be a gain, for the money spent the gain is small.
I assume you know all of your heads flow numbers at all lifts as a comparable list against the Big Mouths.

My point is, perhaps a better head like a Indy or Victor head may be in order. Pricey! But a much better platform and higher ceiling.

Do your homework and take note of how the heads flow at all levels.
 
Why not try the new edelbrocks
The victors !!!
You said you wanted to spend money !!!
 
L4staero said:
I remember now they were HPE's. Have you put a carb bigger than 750 on it? And you got bigger pipes in it didnt you? Maybe go a reasonable solid roller in the 260/270 range and you might see a 20 hp gain or go bigger and bump the comp up to 13. If you go bigger heads you really need high compression and a solid roller to take advantage of the heads anyway. Just my opinion
Click to expand...


You don't have to have more compression with better heads. You just don't.
 
So what changes will i need to make to run either the indys or victors?

Pistons, rockers, headers, inlet manifold.
 
Consider everything needs to be change and what doesn't is a cost savings IF that is the case.

The one (of 2) thing(s) about the Victors is the valve angle change from 18* to 15*.
You could try and spin the engine around to see if it has clearance with clay.

2nd is headers. There very close to W5. Not exact. Only TTI has headers right now. ($$$!)

I am not familiar enough with the Indy heads except to say, purchase them done from a head man here at FABO.
And then ask advice on rockers and springs. Let him Know your entire set Up. Everything!
 
I´m pretty sure Brian @ IMM Engines can set you up with a nice set of Indy Heads + matching Intake. He´s a Indy dealer. In my opinion that´s the way to go.

Michael
 
360duster said:
I´m pretty sure Brian @ IMM Engines can set you up with a nice set of Indy Heads + matching Intake. He´s a Indy dealer. In my opinion that´s the way to go.

Michael
Click to expand...
My Indy heads from Brian flow a touch over 220 @500
Far Far off from his posted 267 on his website. Not a happy customer here.
 
Honestly I don't know. I handed them off to my builder and he called me back a few days latter with the results. I'll see him this weekend and take a video.
 
L4staero said:
I dare say your builders bench is flowi g at 25 or something as they flow more than [email protected] before Brian touches them
Click to expand...



THIS IS WHY YOU DONT BUY HEADS BASED ON FLOW NUMBERS.

Sorry for yelling but we should all know by now there is more to horsepower than just a flow number. Several big named engine people took a bunch of heat for fudging numbers by flowing a head at say, 20 inches and then do math to say the head flowed X amount at 28 inches. The problem is, and guys who use flow benches KNOW this, is that changing the test pressure and doing the math never adds up. I'll give a simple example.

Let's say you flow your head at 25 inches. It flows 265 CFM. You want to compare your port to the standard 28 inches, but you don't have a way to test the head again. You take the CFM at 25 and multiply it by 1.06 to get what the head SHOULD flow at 28. So 265 times 1.06 is about 281 CFM.

The problem is, that when you put the head on the bench at out 28 inches to it, it will loose a percentage. It won't actually flow what it mathematically should. As the spread between the test pressure goes up, the percentage of difference is greater. The more the head flows, the bigger the deficiency is.

Superflow used to publish the formula and a chart to do the math from one test pressure to another. I used the 25/28 inch number because I remember that number off the top of my head.
 
yellow rose said:
THIS IS WHY YOU DONT BUY HEADS BASED ON FLOW NUMBERS.

Sorry for yelling but we should all know by now there is more to horsepower than just a flow number. Several big named engine people took a bunch of heat for fudging numbers by flowing a head at say, 20 inches and then do math to say the head flowed X amount at 28 inches. The problem is, and guys who use flow benches KNOW this, is that changing the test pressure and doing the math never adds up. I'll give a simple example.

Let's say you flow your head at 25 inches. It flows 265 CFM. You want to compare your port to the standard 28 inches, but you don't have a way to test the head again. You take the CFM at 25 and multiply it by 1.06 to get what the head SHOULD flow at 28. So 265 times 1.06 is about 281 CFM.

The problem is, that when you put the head on the bench at out 28 inches to it, it will loose a percentage. It won't actually flow what it mathematically should. As the spread between the test pressure goes up, the percentage of difference is greater. The more the head flows, the bigger the deficiency is.

Superflow used to publish the formula and a chart to do the math from one test pressure to another. I used the 25/28 inch number because I remember that number off the top of my head.
Click to expand...

That math always lines up when I do it , and I'm a curious type so I will flow @ 28 then convert to 50 and then flow it @ 50--Always lines up--UNLESS the head has a stall .

For example a BIG name cylinder head in the Ford camp is advertised to flow *** cfm @ .600-.700" @ 28", well I have flow tested a few sets and all of them stall @ .550" UNLESS I test them @ 10". They will flow great @ 10" all the way up the lift range and when you do the math to convert to 28" guess what? They flow what the claim is. Its a great way to market isn't it? Moral of the story is the math works unless the port goes turbulent @ a higher depression. J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
That math always lines up when I do it , and I'm a curious type so I will flow @ 28 then convert to 50 and then flow it @ 50--Always lines up--UNLESS the head has a stall .

For example a BIG name cylinder head in the Ford camp is advertised to flow *** cfm @ .600-.700" @ 28", well I have flow tested a few sets and all of them stall @ .550" UNLESS I test them @ 10". They will flow great @ 10" all the way up the lift range and when you do the math to convert to 28" guess what? They flow what the claim is. Its a great way to market isn't it? Moral of the story is the math works unless the port goes turbulent @ a higher depression. J.Rob
Click to expand...



Most of the time a port that looks good at 28 won't make the same air at a higher pressure. I see it happen all the time. Even before the port stalls.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top