440 build for a tow rig/"muscle" truck?

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440 Mike said:
Yeah, usually right around $1,000 and most have too much lift for this type of application. The possibility of lobe/lifter failure with the flat tappet really bothers me though.
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Right, the more I think about it the more going roller seems like a good idea. I want this engine to last a long time as in, run it in my truck for X years until I save up to swap the cab and bed onto a 2nd-gen Ram 4x4 Cummins frame then put the 440 in something else. I also like the idea of being able to briefly fire up the engine to check things over before swapping it into my truck, and not needing to have it set up with a full cooling and fuel system for 20-30 minute cam break-in.

But those Hylift-Johnson HFT lifters from Hughes are reeeally tempting ugh. I guess I'll wait on making a decision until I'm closer to being ready to install the valvetrain. I still need to assemble the short block and buy the heads and get those checked over.
 
MopaR&D said:
I hope it's not an issue since this isn't about an A-body but this is still the best place by far to ask any Mopar-related tech questions. I have a 1972 D200 pickup with a good-running 360 but after towing my Duster to the track and back 120 miles away up and down the front range of Colorado on I-25 I realize I want more power. I could get good results swapping in a 5.9L Magnum, overdrive trans and 4.10 gears but I've been jonesing to build another big block and this seems like the perfect application. Current 360 already has 4-bbl intake and carb and longtube headers and does great with lighter loads but it struggles to pull a 5000-lb trailer up a steep grade at 65 mph (speed limit is 75).

The truck is a regular cab long bed and 2WD with a full-floating Dana 60 rear end that has 3.54 gears and a 727 transmission which I will probably stick with for cost reasons (I know I'll need a BB 727). The idea of swapping in a manual is appealing but AFAIK the only one that readily bolts up is the old NP-435 which is basically a 3-speed plus granny gear. Truck weighs about 4600 lbs empty with me in it. I'm leaning towards a 440 with Stealth heads (costs the same as having iron heads machined and new hardware installed) and bumping up the compression to around 9-9.5:1 since I'm at high altitude. However I'm not sure what off-the-shelf pistons would get me that ratio and I also need to keep the quench distance either greater than .125" or less than .045" otherwise it'll be MORE prone to pinging. Also looking for recommendations on a cam, I'm leaning towards a Lunati Voodoo 256/262 but not set on it. For intake I'm thinking Edelbrock RPM, and I was thinking of swapping the 750 cfm Street Demon from the 360 in my Duster to this engine, you guys think that would be too small? Any other thoughts welcome.

Oh and I know gas mileage will be terrible but it currently only gets 10 MPG unloaded anyway so I figure it can't get much worse, seems most guys with 440 Dodge pickups are getting 8-10 from what I see on bookface.

Here's some pics of my truck btw...

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I amj building a 440 to go in my RV so similar engine requirements. Six pack pistons plus a small cut on the deck of the block will get you to zero deck height.

Call Mike Jones he has a flat tappet cam he designed specifically for a 440 grunt motor. Get the cam,lifters, and valve springs from him (he sells usa made parts).
H440D64307
Hydraulic Flat Tappet | Jones Cams


Not sure what CC the chambers are in the 440 source heads but you will need to pay close attention to compression ratio with a zero deck 440. May have to open up the chambers or have a relief cut in the six pack pistons to get down to 9 to 1.
 
mbaird said:
If this is really for towing you have to consider heat build up
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mgoblue9798 said:
I amj building a 440 to go in my RV so similar engine requirements. Six pack pistons plus a small cut on the deck of the block will get you to zero deck height.

Call Mike Jones he has a flat tappet cam he designed specifically for a 440 grunt motor. Get the cam,lifters, and valve springs from him (he sells usa made parts).
H440D64307
Hydraulic Flat Tappet | Jones Cams


Not sure what CC the chambers are in the 440 source heads but you will need to pay close attention to compression ratio with a zero deck 440. May have to open up the chambers or have a relief cut in the six pack pistons to get down to 9 to 1.
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I already got the pistons and the block was bored, honed and light cleanup cut on the decks. I'm using Icon forged pistons which will be below deck at TDC, been a minute since I ran through the calculations but my compression will be right around 9:1 with the Stealth heads. I considered the Sealed Power pistons that are copies of the old TRW forgings but they're just too damn heavy to me. Between the moderate compression, having aluminum heads instead of iron, high-flow water pump and thermostat and a nice aluminum radiator, heat buildup should be kept under control.

If I go with a custom-grind roller cam I will likely reach back out to Jim at Racer Brown. He ground the hyd roller cam currently in the 360 in my Duster a few years back and it's awesome, I couldn't be happier with how it performs.
 
MopaR&D said:
I already got the pistons and the block was bored, honed and light cleanup cut on the decks. I'm using Icon forged pistons which will be below deck at TDC, been a minute since I ran through the calculations but my compression will be right around 9:1 with the Stealth heads. I considered the Sealed Power pistons that are copies of the old TRW forgings but they're just too damn heavy to me. Between the moderate compression, having aluminum heads instead of iron, high-flow water pump and thermostat and a nice aluminum radiator, heat buildup should be kept under control.

If I go with a custom-grind roller cam I will likely reach back out to Jim at Racer Brown. He ground the hyd roller cam currently in the 360 in my Duster a few years back and it's awesome, I couldn't be happier with how it performs.
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I would be very careful with the compression for a tow engine. Make sure to talk to your cam grinder and get dynamic compression figured out for your combo. 440's can be detonation prone with the big bore.

Aluminum heads will help, and hopefully they have the spark plug better located. I wouldn't spend the money on a roller set up but it is your checkbook not mine.
 
mgoblue9798 said:
I would be very careful with the compression for a tow engine. Make sure to talk to your cam grinder and get dynamic compression figured out for your combo. 440's can be detonation prone with the big bore.

Aluminum heads will help, and hopefully they have the spark plug better located. I wouldn't spend the money on a roller set up but it is your checkbook not mine.
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Stealth heads have stock spark plug location unfortunately (but supposedly fits better with headers). I'm not terribly worried about detonation because I'm also operating at 5000-8000 feet above sea level but it's still a consideration. And I'm still on the fence about roller vs. flat tappet, haven't decided yet.

I did clean my block and start masking it this past weekend. Tried the Uncle Tony method of going over the outside with a torch after using gunk/goop whatever in a can engine cleaner and pressure washing it a few times, we'll see how the paint turns out. I decided to go with Dupli-Color "Universal Gold" for the color as the original Golden Lion Chrysler big block color isn't readily available. Hopefully start getting pics up soon.
 
Block is painted, I'm digging this color. Next up, plastigage the main bearings and install the crank.

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That color reminds me of early Hemis and such.
 
mgoblue9798 said:
@MopaR&D you ever get this up and running? Curious what you final combo was and how you like it?
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No, unfortunately last year when inflation and gas prices started hitting hard I indefinitely put the project on hold. In September I started looking for jobs in other parts of the country and am now in the process of moving to GA. The original motivation to build a 440 was for better towing power but now that I've moved from 5000' elevation to near sea level the 360 in the truck will automatically pick up 20-25% more torque and power. So for the truck now the plan will most likely be to replace the worn 2-bbl cam in the 360 with a small aftermarket one, swap in an A-518/46RH trans and swap the 33" all-terrains for smaller on-road tires as I don't need to deal with snow anymore.

I have accumulated all of the parts for the 440 minus the cam and valvetrain so I will likely put the short block together, get the Stealth heads gone over by a shop along with some minor porting and look for another Mopar project to put it in. Possibly also look at some kind of forced induction as I already have the Icon forged pistons that'll give me only around 9:1 compression.
 
Life has a way of interfering with projects. Believe me I get it. What part of GA did you move to? I am about 25 miles NE of Atlanta near Buford.
 
I think you're just going to great extremes for a tow engine. I would have just blueprinted up a stock 375HP 440 and been ridin by now.
 
mgoblue9798 said:
Life has a way of interfering with projects. Believe me I get it. What part of GA did you move to? I am about 25 miles NE of Atlanta near Buford.
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I'm in Augusta, sounds like we're not too far apart!

RustyRatRod said:
I think you're just going to great extremes for a tow engine. I would have just blueprinted up a stock 375HP 440 and been ridin by now.
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Probably, I don't get many opportunities to build engines though so I wanted to have fun with it and build something with potential for further upgrades down the road which worked out well as now I'll be putting it in a car instead and gunning for more power vs low-speed torque/economy and longevity. Also the core I bought was high-mileage, completely disassembled and the parts sat since 1991 so what wasn't worn out was heavily rusted. All I ended up keeping was the block, crank and hardware.
 
MopaR&D said:
I'm in Augusta, sounds like we're not too far apart!


Probably, I don't get many opportunities to build engines though so I wanted to have fun with it and build something with potential for further upgrades down the road which worked out well as now I'll be putting it in a car instead and gunning for more power vs low-speed torque/economy and longevity. Also the core I bought was high-mileage, completely disassembled and the parts sat since 1991 so what wasn't worn out was heavily rusted. All I ended up keeping was the block, crank and hardware.
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So then the truck project got scrapped?
 
RustyRatRod said:
So then the truck project got scrapped?
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Pretty much, check post #111. The 360 in the truck now is in excellent shape aside from a worn cam lobe as it doesn't idle very smooth and I've replaced the whole rest of the top end with fresh parts and spent some time tuning it.
 
MopaR&D said:
Pretty much, check post #111. The 360 in the truck now is in excellent shape aside from a worn cam lobe as it doesn't idle very smooth and I've replaced the whole rest of the top end with fresh parts and spent some time tuning it.
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Hard learned experience on my part. Cam lobe metal is sent throughout the engine. I'd pull it clean it and throw a set of bearings and rings at it.
 
mgoblue9798 said:
Hard learned experience on my part. Cam lobe metal is sent throughout the engine. I'd pull it clean it and throw a set of bearings and rings at it.
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It's not the typical sudden and complete cam lobe failure like we usually see these days, more of a long-term high-mileage thing. I've put at least 10k miles on this truck since I got it running and it's always run this way. It's a slight vibration/miss at idle that feels like a partially dead cylinder but doesn't make any bad noises. Vibration goes away once the throttle is open and the engine is spinning above idle, it's also less pronounced when the engine is fully warmed up.

IIRC I did a compression test a couple years ago and all cylinders were at acceptable levels relative to each other. I think the thin air makes it worse too combined with the low stock compression.
 
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