4l80 behind G3

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Madcoy440

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SO the Gen3 bug has bitten my son and I. We are making wish list, and have decided that maybe that 392 replacement crate is not exactly where we want to be, so pretty much decided on 5.7 or 6.1 built by reputable shop. We will be going HD front end replacement. Decided we would like to go 4l80, my concern is starter location. Any thoughts on this?
 
I think the main concern with starter placement on the old cars is the torsion bars and headers. It's a pretty tight fit to the frame rail on the passenger side, even more so with headers.
 
You will need a adapter bellhousing anyway, all of the swap headers are designed around a driver side starter. That is also one of the reasons you dont see the NAG-1 trans used is A-B-E body swaps, passenger side starter. The NAG-1 can be built into a robust unit like the 4l80 but nobody makes a swap bellhousing. SRT8 manifolds work with some mods I hear.
 
I can get a adapt plate for the 4l but I am really concerned with the starter fitment and headers.. Just thought I would throw it out there to see if anyone has made it happen.
 
I'm just pointing this out. You are wanting to use a 4 speed auto that you'll have to do some serious tunnel surgery in order to make it fit. So why would you limit yourself to that 4 speed? A little more cutting and fab (which shouldn't be a big deal seeing how you're already willing to cut and mod the tunnel) you could stick a 6 speed auto in it (hell you could even go with that new 8 speed auto from mopar with more cutting but I don't know how much bigger it is compared to the 6 speed auto). That double over (or quad if you go 8 speed) will really help with highway speed and mpg. Like I said I'm just pointing this out.
 
I would prefer to do the Nag1 but the electronics are just not there yet according to a few of the tuners I have talked to and I will still have the same fitment issues. I can have a 4l80 that will hold way beyond the motors I am building for less head ache electronically. I will have to modify my tunnel with just about any transmission. But to answer your question, one of these cars will be at 800+ hp I want a good reliable box behind it, as well as, the easiest to make work. If there are easier OD boxes, I am most certainly open to those. I just know a 545 will not carry the mail like a Nag1 or 4l80.
 
200R4 is the smallest and easiest overdrive tranny to stuff into an a body without doing major tunnel surgery. Mopar To Ya has one in his dart sport. Just do a search for it. And a 200R4 can withstand a crap load of power when built plus it's all hyd.
 
727 with a gearvendor, done deal!?,
 
The 200 4r is a better trans all around it has the same gear spacing as a 904 with the added benefit of an OD . It is smaller that the 4l80 not to mention being lighter and can be built to withstand as much as a 4l80 or a 727 with less parasitic power loss.

BTW if you are worried that the 200 4r won't hold up . Remember that Buick Grand Nationals used that very same trans
 
Pics of the starter and srt jeep manifolds with a 4l60e. Not sure how much differenc there may be with the 4l80 but i beliebe the bell area is the same.
Some clearencing required to the block for the starter to fit. Starter is a 2005 5.7 Ram manual trans starter.
First is for the srt manifolds to fit





Realwing has a pic in his build thread of the bump on the block that needs to be shaved for the starter to fit. Thought I had one but cant find it.
 
I think that bump that you have to shave exists on both sides. I know I had a boss on the bottom of the block at the pan rail that I did a light grind to for some starter clearance. The starter barely hit it, but it was more a piece of mind thing so I wouldn't have the starter riding on it.
 
Our Dart is set up for a 4l80. You will need to build a new tunnel if you want the trans to sit in the factory spot. Going to need to pretty much remove the torsion bar cross member just inboard of the torsion bars. With the way ours was done the throttle even needed to be tweaked a bit to clear the tunnel. If you would like some pictures just let me know. In regards to the 6 speed....last I looked there is no programmer available for it yet so you are going to figure out how to piggyback a factory gm ecu to get it to work. In talking to a shop that does a ton of 4l80e stuff he also told me that it is going to cost a ton of money to get the 6 speed to be as durable as the 4l80. The 80, with minimal modifications can live behind 1500 hp.

I have read nothing but bad things about that TCI 6 speed. One of them is it does not hold up to any where near the power of the 80.
 
I think Jake's Performance is the way we are going. They can build a 4l80 with a Reid Bellhousing with a small block bolt pattern. That will put the starter on the correct side for the "car", and should allow more room for headers. I know there are other shops that do the Reid mod, but Jakes is just a short ride down I35 for me.

Has anyone heard good or bad things about the modification done to the 80?
 
Madcoy440 said:
I think Jake's Performance is the way we are going. They can build a 4l80 with a Reid Bellhousing with a small block bolt pattern. That will put the starter on the correct side for the "car", and should allow more room for headers. I know there are other shops that do the Reid mod, but Jakes is just a short ride down I35 for me.

Has anyone heard good or bad things about the modification done to the 80?
Click to expand...

Have heard nothing but great things about Jake. I have a trans buddy that was going to build mine, but seeing as how I am tossing around the idea of a trans brake from Jake that sort of rules my buddy out, last I checked he does not sell the brake valve body by itself. I did not know that the Reid bellhousing from a small block would work for a 3G. CKPerformance out of NY also sells the adapter ring/milled pump that you need. I have an 80 in the garage that has had the oe bell housing removed, was not a problem to do it.
Surprised none of the 80 haters have found this yet......the ones they claim it will not live behind anything but a low hp motor. My buddy has built several of them for Desert Prerunners, every body that has one has nothing but good things to say. He even built one for Jesse James truck a few years back.
What are you going to use in the way of a controller? How about a shifter?
 
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It takes more than a little cutting to get a 4l80e in an a-body. Jim, the fab guy that did mine, started out using a 727/plastic 2G HEMI block and a motor/mid plate. He positioned the trans using the oe mount/cross member. Mocked the motor up off of it, mounting the motor/mid plate. Pulled the 727 and started cutting.

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When he got done building a new tunnel he also had to tweak the throttle a bit to clear the tunnel....

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Here comes the problem, sort of. You are left with really nothing to prevent the t-bar's from twisting as they do there thing. In my case, I have a cage with the a-pillar mounts welded to the rockers, right in the area where that one brace goes from the rocker to the front frame stub. Our car also has a tube under the dash as well as above the windshield. Also will have a motor/mid plate which goes along ways to triangulating things. I also have a Dillinger lower radiator support. I think if you were to just cut a car open like mine is, and not replace the support that is now missing by doing so you will be asking for trouble. However, a simple solution would be to fab up something similar to this...

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Which I found at this thread.....

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=183871

I feel it would eliminate any & all flexing that would take place by removing the oe shaped sheetmetal cross member that runs over the trans. Of course the 80's mount is a few inches behind this area, you can see it's position in my one picture, it is the round tube. Of course this assumes that you have subframe connectors present. Hope this helps....if you have any questions fire away...will do my best to answer them.
I will be losing the torsion bars as I recently purchased a Hemi Denny front end. He uses the oe upper mount for the top of the shock. He supplies braces very similar to what is used in the off road world.
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Couple that with my motor/mid plate & lower radiator support I seriously doubt I will have any flex issues....
 
Holy smokes that thing is huge. Very nice job getting it in by your fab guy.
 
Uhcoog1 said:
Holy smokes that thing is huge. Very nice job getting it in by your fab guy.
Click to expand...
Side by side it is not that much bigger than the 727 width wise, it is just the length of it. There is a ton of room around the trans in the tunnel.
 
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