600HP Pump Gas 440cid SB Mopar

[Brian Hafliger]

Just wanted to share this build with you guys here. I posted it over on Moparts.com also.
Siamesed R3 4.200 bore 48° lifter bores
4.00 crank
-16cc dish ross pistons
H beam rods
Indy cnc -2 heads with my VJ and chamber work
Solid Ft cam with Schubeck lifters (255-259@ .050)
Compression is 10.3:1

We tried both Indy and Victor intakes, and a QF 950 annular carb and our 1000HP holley, and no spacer vs. tapered spacer vs. 1/2 open spacer.

Best high rpm HP came from the Indy intake/1000HP carb and tapered spacer. Best low rpm power (3000-3500) came from the QF 950/Victor and 1/2 spacer combo.
Indy combo made 611HP at 6500rpm and Victor combo made 590HP at 6300rpm.
We recieved this engine because the customer had someone else build it for him and was unhappy with the performance. He had chose most of the parts for the build, and was not far off I have to say.
I lowered the compression from 10.7 to 10.3 for more realistic street driving.
We fixed alot of machining problems (bores, heads, etc...)and changed the cam to my custom grind.

Here are some pics of it:

 

[GTXperience]

Nice motor Brian. What are the plans for it? BTW: What kind of work was done to the heads before you received it (if any)?

 

[Mad Dart]

Nice build......Stout Block

Guys are getting the same results with Factory Blocks and After market heads such as Edelbrock, EQ or the new INDY/RHS X HEADS and Cubic Inches no more that 416 or so. Your block is a WAY better choice but most guys out here dont have that kind of dough to throw at a build like that.

I am almost done with a 410 stroker using LA 360 Block, H beams, Forged crank, Pistons etc with the Indy/RHS X heads ported. My compression is a little higher than yours at 11.25:1 with tuning to run on Pump Gas hopefully. This should make some good power in the range of 600+ HP 580+tq, I will see here soon. I ran a girdle on the bottom end also to help it live.

 

[Brian Hafliger]

Nice build......Stout Block

Guys are getting the same results with Factory Blocks and After market heads such as Edelbrock, EQ or the new INDY/RHS X HEADS and Cubic Inches no more that 416 or so. Your block is a WAY better choice but most guys out here dont have that kind of dough to throw at a build like that.

I am almost done with a 410 stroker using LA 360 Block, H beams, Forged crank, Pistons etc with the Indy/RHS X heads ported. My compression is a little higher than yours at 11.25:1 with tuning to run on Pump Gas hopefully. This should make some good power in the range of 600+ HP 580+tq, I will see here soon. I ran a girdle on the bottom end also to help it live.

I say bring it down and let's dyno it! Same dyno so that should be an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Brian Hafliger]

Nice motor Brian. What are the plans for it? BTW: What kind of work was done to the heads before you received it (if any)?

They had a valve job done by someone, and indy valves. I changed to Ferrea valves, and changed the VJ/chamber transition and picked up nearly 30 cfm at peak and 18 cfm avg. from .200 to .600 lift!

 

[nemesis]

How much lift that cam running?

 

[Mad Dart]

I say bring it down and let's dyno it! Same dyno so that should be an apples to apples comparison.

I am just waiting for the head gaskets and then I need to order the push rods.

I really would like to Dyno it. Are you Indio Motor Machine??

I will PM you.

 

[nemesis]

I am just waiting for the head gaskets and then I need to order the push rods.

I really would like to Dyno it. Are you Indio Motor Machine??

I will PM you.

Mad dart, is it that bjr done the heads for?

What sorta cam do you have in it,lift,duration etc...

a 440 ci motor like the one
posted should pump 700 plus hp done right,but i guess he built
it to be more streetable.
The way i see it tho,if your going to that far,
might as well go all out an as far as you can go
with pump gas.
But thats just my opinion...

Either how,im sure its gonna pull like a train!

 

[dartcuda1]

Brian what are the torque numbers on that engine.

 

[Mad Dart]

Mad dart, is it that bjr done the heads for?

What sorta cam do you have in it,lift,duration etc...

a 440 ci motor like the one
posted should pump 700 plus hp done right,but i guess he built
it to be more streetable.
The way i see it tho,if your going to that far,
might as well go all out an as far as you can go
with pump gas.
But thats just my opinion...

Either how,im sure its gonna pull like a train!

Hughes Cam Solid Flat Tappet, using the Cool Face Lifters.

Intake Valve Lift 1.6
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.6 .614"
.626"

Intake Duration at .050"
Exhaust Duration at .050" 256°
260°

Lobe Separation Angle 106

Intake Opening at .050"
Exhaust Opening at .050" 25° BTC
59° BBC

Intake Closing at .050"
Exhaust Closing at .050" 51° ABC
21° ATC

 

[Mad Dart]

Mad dart, is it that bjr done the heads for?

What sorta cam do you have in it,lift,duration etc...

a 440 ci motor like the one
posted should pump 700 plus hp done right,but i guess he built
it to be more streetable.
The way i see it tho,if your going to that far,
might as well go all out an as far as you can go
with pump gas.
But thats just my opinion...

Either how,im sure its gonna pull like a train!

Yes, BJR set the heads up......

 

[Brian Hafliger]

Mad dart, is it that bjr done the heads for?

What sorta cam do you have in it,lift,duration etc...

a 440 ci motor like the one
posted should pump 700 plus hp done right,but i guess he built
it to be more streetable.
The way i see it tho,if your going to that far,
might as well go all out an as far as you can go
with pump gas.
But thats just my opinion...

Either how,im sure its gonna pull like a train!

What is "right" in your opinion?

 

[Brian Hafliger]

Brian what are the torque numbers on that engine.

It was 566 peak.

 

[Mad Dart]

I think he means to the HILT? Wrong word used probably!!

 

[nemesis]

Awesome mad dart,looking forward to the numbers or 1/4 mile times!

Please dont be offended brian, im not taking anything away from
your build at all!
Im just saying if it were me,id go as far as i could go with
pump gas. Not emplying that you didnt built it right!
It looks like a VERY quality build!
An id love to have something like that in any of my mopars.
An it sure as hell craps on the motors i have!

Ive never gotten a motor built,every time i save
the money to do it,i end up buying another toy instead.
*sighs*

Anyhow,
566 ft pound of torque eh brian?
Tell the bowties not bad for a mopar small block ;)

I dont like to argue with fellow mopar brothers,we should
help each other go faster if anything!

 

[AdamR]

Nice littler screamer, I dont think your going to see 700hp from a pump gas small block built for the street no matter what magic parts you use. That's 1.6hp per cube.

 

[nemesis]

It can be done adam.

My net is running like JUNK atm,but goldberg got built a pump
gas nascar motor for a daytona an it was 660 hp if memory
serves me right...An that was just under 360 ci.
Dont quote me,but i WILL get back to you on the exact numbers ;)
Or send you the link!

When my nets slow,it struggles to load moparmusclemagazine.com
hotrod.com
popularhotrodding.com
carcraft.com

It will be in 1 of those sites.

 

[AdamR]

A nascar motor is not a street motor though, 9000rpm red lines make for soggy low end torque.

 

[Brian Hafliger]

Awesome mad dart,looking forward to the numbers or 1/4 mile times!

Please dont be offended brian, im not taking anything away from
your build at all!
Im just saying if it were me,id go as far as i could go with
pump gas. Not emplying that you didnt built it right!
It looks like a VERY quality build!
An id love to have something like that in any of my mopars.
An it sure as hell craps on the motors i have!

Ive never gotten a motor built,every time i save
the money to do it,i end up buying another toy instead.
*sighs*

Anyhow,
566 ft pound of torque eh brian?
Tell the bowties not bad for a mopar small block ;)

I dont like to argue with fellow mopar brothers,we should
help each other go faster if anything!

Yeah, don't take me wrong...I wasn't upset I just wanted to know what you thought would work better?

Here's the whole story: When the engine came to me, it made 570HP at Westech on their superflow dyno. Customer called me and wanted me to remove the heads and flow them to see if they were down on flow possibly causing the low HP (porting and head work is my biggest forte).
When we got it apart we found all kinds of things wrong! So Gary (customer)decided to have us make it right. I had that same cam ground on a 107lca and it made 602HP before any tuning and the cam went flat!
I had used comp's edm lifters with this cam and after comp looked at them they admitted the lifter had caused the problem. Kudo's to them for making it right!!
Meanwhile the customer wanted a much better idle for street LOL and so I reordered that cam on a 112lca. Needless to say first pull with no tuning, just as the first cam was run, it made 587HP!!
So with the other cam I'm sure we would have been in the high 620's or low 630's for HP but that is just a guess at this point!!

I can tell you it takes alot to make an honest 600HP, on our dyno at least. My duster in the pic runs 10.50's at 3300 lbs. and the 360 in it made 560HP on our dyno. Which is about right for the weight and mph.

 

[crackedback]

The customer also put a 6000rpm limit on things too.

The customer wanted torque... yet, IMO, the first builder that screwed the pooch, deciding to go with a 4.180 bore and 4" crank. Why not put more arm in it like a 4.125" or 4.25" with a more normal 4.060-4.100 bore. Same cubes, more stroke, more low end torque.

I would bet that if Brian got a clean slate to work with, the components would have been much different to achieve the customers desired results.

I'll be interested to see the engine in the car. It's a pretty different/interesting mix of parts.

 

[AdamR]

440 cubes I expected a 4.25" stroke not a 4" arm.

 

[nemesis]

Hey adam
Nascar motor made to run on pump fuel,to me is a street motor.
What 1 person might think is streetable,another person might not.
Its a never ending argument.
I think i could live with that,9000 rpm.

Want Soggy low end torque?
Try a t88 13 b rotary.
Foot to the boards an nothings going on till you hit 6000 rpm.
An that is in my freinds street car that runs on
pump fuel, do i think its streetable?
Yeh,but its **** to drive unless you give it hell an it
idles at 1800 rpm. Anyhow he got sick of it an
He changed the turbo to a gt3540 an now it will pull from 3300rpm.
My point is, i bet that nascar motor would pull like a train
compared other types of street motors!
To each there own.

An brian,id take your word over mine,ANY day of the week.
Your an engine builder right?
Much kudos to you an doing right by this customer who
clearly was screwed around.

So what combo is in your 360 duster,
compression,cam, etc...
Just curious

Cheers brother.

 

[Brian Hafliger]

It's a stock 360 block, hard blocked, 3 center mains are ductile from an R3 and line honed, zero decked using KB flattop pistons and stock rods resized S/E style.
Cam is comp FT (264@ .050). Heads are ported by myself W2's, 1.6 MP rockers, victor intake, 1000HP carb.
Compression is 12.25:1 Headers are TTI 1 7/8 with extensions.
It runs 10.50's usually if the D.A. is under 2800ft. at 126mph sometimes 125 if I hot lap it.
It weigh's 3320lbs. with me in it.

 

[nemesis]

It's a stock 360 block, hard blocked, 3 center mains are ductile from an R3 and line honed, zero decked using KB flattop pistons and stock rods resized S/E style.
Cam is comp FT (264@ .050). Heads are ported by myself W2's, 1.6 MP rockers, victor intake, 1000HP carb.
Compression is 12.25:1 Headers are TTI 1 7/8 with extensions.
It runs 10.50's usually if the D.A. is under 2800ft. at 126mph sometimes 125 if I hot lap it.
It weigh's 3320lbs. with me in it.

Very Nice brian!!!

Best 360 IVE seen developed is my mechanics.
Ive mentioned it before in other threads,
i stil cant get over it.
Bored 20 thou, J heads ported to the HILT (mad dart lol)
cam is around the 630 lift mark,comp is 11.3.1, holley 950 last
time i checked,forgot what manifold it has,vacuum pump,
custom headers an 3 inch
exhaust system,4.3 gears, runs on
pump gas an full exhaust system, car weighs at least 3400 pounds.
Best time is a 10.70 at 125 mph.

Dont get me wrong,hes been at it for a couple years fine tuning it at the track,
11.4 was hes 1st ever pass on that motor an hes just been at it fiddling
an fine tuning it ever since...
To me thats impressive for a guy in aus, what does
our heads in is how fast some of some of the stock apearing
race classes go!


He sold that motor very recently carb to pan,wish i had the money to have bought it

Sorry for the ramble, 5 am an bout to go to sleep lol.

 

[Mad Dart]

It's a stock 360 block, hard blocked, 3 center mains are ductile from an R3 and line honed, zero decked using KB flattop pistons and stock rods resized S/E style.
Cam is comp FT (264@ .050). Heads are ported by myself W2's, 1.6 MP rockers, victor intake, 1000HP carb.
Compression is 12.25:1 Headers are TTI 1 7/8 with extensions.
It runs 10.50's usually if the D.A. is under 2800ft. at 126mph sometimes 125 if I hot lap it.
It weigh's 3320lbs. with me in it.

That car hauls ***!!!!!!!! Consistent E.T's also.....