65/66 Dart Tail Lamp Bulb?

[slantsixdan]

Been a long enough time since I owned my '65, let alone changed a taillight bulb in it, that I don't clearly remember the socket details of the inboard lamp. But I want to say there's some aspect of it that makes this harder and more complex than the simple socket swap you have in mind.

Forgot to mention earlier: ceiling-white paint will very likely cancel an issue (if there is one) caused by the different focal length of the R5W versus the original 1095.

More detail:
Clean the lenses in hot soapy water. Stuff wads of masking tape in the bulb holes (or remove the sockets if they're the removable type), clean the reflectors with alcohol, then paint them with Ceiling White paint (specifically! Not just any old white paint; go to a paint store and get Ceiling White), which is practically ideal for the task, even if the original material on the reflector bowls was more of a silvery stuff. An example is 'Ceiling Bright White' from Sherwin-Williams; they'll mix it up for you as a polyurethane-based paint on request. It's water-based, so it won't stink up the place and it's easy to apply and clean up. Don't worry about the surface gloss (or not-gloss) of the ceiling white paint; surface gloss isn't the thing in an application like this, as it is in something like a headlamp.

This paint has 90-some-odd-percent reflectivity of incident light with broad diffusion. You might take a look at this vid for a demonstration; he takes awhile to get to the point, but he eventually (3:24) he starts to get around to it, and the difference is pretty obvious even with a low-quality camera. And he just used regular white, not ceiling white; regular white looks dishwater-grey next to ceiling white.

 

[mopowers]

Been a long enough time since I owned my '65, let alone changed a taillight bulb in it, that I don't clearly remember the socket details of the inboard lamp. But I want to say there's some aspect of it that makes this harder and more complex than the simple socket swap you have in mind.

Forgot to mention earlier: ceiling-white paint will very likely cancel an issue (if there is one) caused by the different focal length of the R5W versus the original 1095.

More detail:
Clean the lenses in hot soapy water. Stuff wads of masking tape in the bulb holes (or remove the sockets if they're the removable type), clean the reflectors with alcohol, then paint them with Ceiling White paint (specifically! Not just any old white paint; go to a paint store and get Ceiling White), which is practically ideal for the task, even if the original material on the reflector bowls was more of a silvery stuff. An example is 'Ceiling Bright White' from Sherwin-Williams; they'll mix it up for you as a polyurethane-based paint on request. It's water-based, so it won't stink up the place and it's easy to apply and clean up. Don't worry about the surface gloss (or not-gloss) of the ceiling white paint; surface gloss isn't the thing in an application like this, as it is in something like a headlamp.

This paint has 90-some-odd-percent reflectivity of incident light with broad diffusion. You might take a look at this vid for a demonstration; he takes awhile to get to the point, but he eventually (3:24) he starts to get around to it, and the difference is pretty obvious even with a low-quality camera. And he just used regular white, not ceiling white; regular white looks dishwater-grey next to ceiling white.

I did paint the lamp cups bright white when I rebuilt them. Not sure if it was ceiling white specifically, but it is was a really bright white. I'll give the R5W bulbs a shot first. If they're close enough, great. If they look off, I'll try replacing the socket since it's easy enough. Plus, I already have some extra sockets from some extra parts harnesses I've got.

 

[D/Dart man]

These would need a socket change but some people are using these bulbs.

 

[slantsixdan]

These would need a socket change but some people are using these bulbs.

View attachment 1716298804

None of those would need a socket change; they all (along with the R5W) share the same BA15s base.

 

[mopowers]

These would need a socket change but some people are using these bulbs.

View attachment 1716298804

Thanks guys. This is a handy list. I ended up finding a handful of 67s in my bulb tray so I'll give those a shot before I end up doing anything different.

 

[toolmanmike]

Thanks for all the info fellas. Thanks Dan for chiming in as well. I will make this thread a sticky so others with early A's can find this info easily.

 

[slantsixdan]

Just brainstorming here, but couldn't I just snip the single filament socket and replace it with another 1157 dual filament socket and just use an 1157 bulb with just the low side wired? Would there be a downside to doing this?

Oops, I missed this. Yes, if you can find a BAY15d ("DC Bayonet Index") socket of the correct size and focal length—that's the distance from the mounting plane to the filament—you could do exactly as you have in mind here. In that case I'd use a 7528 (P21/5W) instead of an 1157, but now I'm being picky.

 

[slantsixdan]

Actually…hang on. There might be a perfect fix that uses cheap, widely-available, long-life bulbs and doesn't require finding a new socket. This will take some research; watch this space.

 

[slantsixdan]

Yupdate! My hunch was right and my research worked; I've all-the-way-solved the unavailability of 1095 bulbs in an easy, affordable, cost-effective manner. Buncha real-job deadlines hanging overhead, though, so give me some time to get my act together with regard to pricing and logistics.

 

[Jim Kueneman]

The 1157 Mini works great. Used them in all my early A’s and A100 were anything else would cause the lens to show signs of heat deformation. The Mini 1157 is WAY shorter than a standard bulb and has no noticeable heating on the lens to date.

 

[slantsixdan]

The 1157 Mini works great.

Doesn't. Its filaments are in completely the wrong position to work with a lamp designed for any of the bigger bulbs. Also it puts out the wrong amount of light for the '65-'66 Dart application we're talking about here. Also, it would require brutalizing/hacking the '65-'66 Dart inner taillight socket to even fit.

(that "mini 1157" is not a legitimate bulb, it's something dreamed up by a squirrel to sell aftermarket toy lites to motorcyclists. Years ago I worked for the company where that squirrel had done so years before, and so I had a front row seat and speakerphone for the steady trickle of "Hey, my light melted/wires burned/lights don't work right" etc types of complaints that would come in).

 

[BillGrissom]

Since an 1156 fits, but "too bright", perhaps an LED version since Chinese ones are often wimpy. Perhaps what I installed (if it physically fit).

 

[slantsixdan]

Since an 1156 fits, but "too bright", perhaps an LED version

That's a terrible idea.

But thank you for reviving this thread and reminding me I gotta make with the camera and keyboard and get the announcement out, because the real, complete solution-without-creating-new-problems is in boxes on my bench.

 

[BillGrissom]

That's a terrible idea.

But thank you for reviving this thread and reminding me I gotta make with the camera and keyboard and get the announcement out, because the real, complete solution-without-creating-new-problems is in boxes on my bench.

Any LED lamp is a bad idea? Even if an 1156 is judged "too bright" and some LED versions aren't as bright?

 

[slantsixdan]

Any LED lamp is a bad idea?

That's correct, for reasons that have been gone over a whole lotta times.

Even if an 1156 is judged "too bright" and some LED versions aren't as bright?

Yup, even if. It's not a simple matter of brighter/dimmer, it's that "LED bulbs" do not allow the lamp to distribute the light (whether there's the right amount, too much, or not enough of it) in an appropriate pattern.

 

[BillGrissom]

That's correct, for reasons that have been gone over a whole lotta times.



Yup, even if. It's not a simple matter of brighter/dimmer, it's that "LED bulbs" do not allow the lamp to distribute the light (whether there's the right amount, too much, or not enough of it) in an appropriate pattern.

True for headlamps which must project a defined beam, but hard to imagine no LED bulb could work as a running lamp. There are various ones, with LED segments arranged in different patterns, so likely you can one that distributes the light as you desire. I use them many places in all my vehicles, though never as a headlamp. Indeed, an LED assembly I retrofit as a license plate lamp housing in my 1985 M-B (OE plastic housing fell apart) gives almost too much light on the license plate, so no Police could complain I'm trying to hide the plate at night.

 

[slantsixdan]

True for headlamps which must project a defined beam

…true for all of the exterior lights on a vehicle. You might not think of the light from a taillamp or a brake light as a "beam pattern", but that's exactly what it is (and must be). Read all about it here.

hard to imagine no LED bulb could work as a running lamp.

Fortunately for you, you don't have to imagine it; this site has an in-house expert on the topic.

There are various ones, with LED segments arranged in different patterns,

Yup, and very nearly all of them are categorically NFG.

so likely you can one that distributes the light as you desire.

It's not a matter of what you (or I, or he, or she) might desire. This isn't like choosing light bulbs for the kitchen or bedroom or garage, where all that matters is they light up in a manner you like. This is life-safety equipment we're talking about here.

I use them many places in all my vehicles

The thing about not knowing what you don't know is…you don't know what you don't know!

 

[BillGrissom]

Good to have an expert on the board. LED bulbs work for me. Some still prefer carburetors, points ignition, and such. I'm not totally unschooled since I took a graduate course in Optics and published several journal papers on laser scattering instruments.

 

[slantsixdan]

LED bulbs work for me.

You think they do…but no, they really don't.

I'm not totally unschooled

In this particular set of questions, yeah, you're showing that you really are. And there's nothing wrong with that; you've got stuff that you're a legit expert on that other people know little or nothing about.

But when you go "Nuh-uh, is not, yuh-huh, is too" to the guy who is a legit expert on something you're obviously not…well…

 

[66Dvert]

It's an odd part number if I remember. It has to match the tail light filament in the body side bulb which is a dual filament. I always wanted to string another wire and put dual filament bulbs in the trunk lid. Tail lights would be the same but you would have dual brake and turn signal. Kind of the same deal with rewiring the front park lights so they stay on with the headlights.

I did it was easy and had a few made up since it was actually cheaper to get 10 made than one for some reason. 1 would have cost me 121.98 plus shipping , 10 cost me 355.98 ( 36 buck each) plus shipping so per part was good for me since I had 3 cars to do that way (now on the 5th one) BUT you have to find a really SHORT socket if you hand make them. and YES I had SSdan help me with the LED lumen numbers and light issues I ran into or they would never have worked as they should
top 2 pictures was fist disastorious try since the lumens were wayyyyyyyy off. I never tried regular bulbs since I was fixated on LEDS but they probanbly could have worked also but the draws might have been too much for the tiny wiring, I updated all my rear wiring to the next higher gauge for safety sake (my peace of mind)

 

[slantsixdan]

For whoever wants to emulate 66DVert's work, read this.

 

[GGs66GT]

Years ago I ran a wire from the stop light switch to the trunk lid and changed the sockets to accept a 1157 bulb .
This gave me four stop lights and four taillights but just two signal lights.
Picture this you are stopped to make a left or right turn and are signaling, three stop lights and one signal a doing their thing .

 

[slantsixdan]

Okeh, finally I got all the ducks in a row and shot 'em. By "ducks" I mean the 100-per-cent solution to the unavailability of № 1095 bulbs for '65-'66 Dart inner taillights (and various other Mopars, C-bodies and stuff that we don't talk about on here):

As you can see, it's an adapter to use a type W5W or № 168 bulb, the all-glass peanut type. These bulbs put out the same amount of light/draw the same amount of current as the 1095, the adapter holds the glass bulb firmly, and — most importantly — it puts the filament exactly where the 1095 filament would be, relative to the reflector and lens, so the lamp works correctly: the whole thing lights up evenly and at the correct level (if you get this distance wrong, such as by using a № 67 or 97 bulb, you get a little central dot of light but the reflector doesn't "see" the filament properly, so it doesn't light up evenly). The adapter is sturdily constructed, and has a nickel-plated base so it won't corrode and seize into the socket.

The peanut bulbs will be available practically forever. W5Ws are widely available (Sylvania № 2825 , Philips № 12961 , etc), and they are the preferred bulb type, because the filament configuration is same as the № 1095. But a № 168 will fit and work about as well, too. And if you want to play around with brighter tail lights, you can use a № 3652 — same 5-watt power and filament shape as a W5W, but 75 lumens instead of 50.

This is not a commercial thing I'm going to retire on or do in large volume or anything like that, I've got about 10 sets and it was a labour of love; solving stupid old problems (like "can't get the right bulb any more") scratches an itch. Send me a PM if you want a pair.

 

[mopowers]

Okeh, finally I got all the ducks in a row and shot 'em. By "ducks" I mean the 100-per-cent solution to the unavailability of № 1095 bulbs for '65-'66 Dart inner taillights (and various other Mopars, C-bodies and stuff that we don't talk about on here):

View attachment 1716424276

View attachment 1716424272

View attachment 1716424273

As you can see, it's an adapter to use a type W5W or № 168 bulb, the all-glass peanut type. These bulbs put out the same amount of light/draw the same amount of current as the 1095, the adapter holds the glass bulb firmly, and — most importantly — it puts the filament exactly where the 1095 filament would be, relative to the reflector and lens, so the lamp works correctly: the whole thing lights up evenly and at the correct level (if you get this distance wrong, you get a little central dot of light but the reflector doesn't "see" the filament properly, so it doesn't light up evenly). The adapter is sturdily constructed, and has a nickel-plated base so it won't corrode and seize into the socket.

The peanut bulbs will be available practically forever. W5Ws are widely available (Sylvania № 2825 , Philips № 12961 , etc), and they are the preferred bulb type, because the filament configuration is same as the № 1095. But a № 168 will fit and work about as well, too. And if you want to play around with brighter tail lights, you can use a № 3652 — same 5-watt power and filament shape as a W5W, but 75 lumens instead of 50.

This is not a commercial thing I'm going to retire on or do in large volume or anything like that, I've got about 10 sets and it was a labour of love; solving stupid old problems (like "can't get the right bulb any more") scratches an itch. Send me a PM if you want a pair.

That's a cool solution. Did you make those yourself?

 

[slantsixdan]

No, I don't have the facilities or equipment needed to make them to the necessary level of dimensional precision and durability. Took quite a bit of back-and-forth work with an outfit that does!