65 Dart GT Plan

[Shunyun]

About two months ago I bought a 65 Dart GT from my son. My intention was to have a 'get around town' car with better milage than my '02 Avalanche (22MPG). As I've browsed this forum and sites like slantsix, I see lots of possibilities; restoration, small block, big block, turbo...
What I need is a 'Reasonable Man Check'. What I mean is this; I once had a manager who came to me with some options and said he needs a reasonable man check; he meant that he respects my opinion and needs an honest, no holds barred opinion... Am I on target or am I smokin dope?

So this is what I have.

- Current state:
Significant rust in door panels, wheel wells, trunk lid, window corners, and floor.
- corroded rubber in suspension
- stable motor
- cut-off heater hoses
- A/C Removed
- Minor upholstery repairs (splits, carpet tears)
- need trim repair/replacement ( chrome, tail lens)
- Bogus radio / speakers; need to replace door panels, stock radio face
- former fire in interior, melted paint
- tree fell on drivers door, need replacement

Work done so far:
- Purchase - $2000
- Carb rebuild - $30
- 14" rims w/ 24k mile tires - $400
- Reg + Ins.: $70.00. ( suh-wheet!)
- Pro Mechanic eval; misc cleaning, tuning, brake line replacement. $ 700.00
- recommend suspension rebuild & disc brakes

Except for the radio, it's all original parts; some missing, some in poor condition. I honestly don't know that I could justify a 'Collectible' plate.

I'm torn; I'm 50 and one part of me wants to build something with balls and screw the collectors (for that matter, don't even know if it could qualify for consideration as a collectible!). On the other hand, it's a cool old car and I'd probably be happy enough to make it solid under the skin and drive it around for another 20 years.

I hate to think that I'm wasting an opportunity (collectible, other?). Does it have a chance for glory (LOL!!!) or am I taking a reasonable approach, seeing it as just a grocery-run / golf bag fun car?

I lean toward the latter; is I smokin dope?

 

[gregsdart]

I have 3 65 Darts. Parts are hard to come by, so be prepared to pay hi $$ for tail lights, candy cane front trim around the grill, etc. Bumpers can be rechromed, if you have a decent core. Quarter panels and floor pans are available, and you can do the majority of the work yourself on these. Front fenders will be tough to get. Headers are limited, and clearance for dual exhaust (I think!) goes by model. Check if you have the rare model set up for duals, I think it was only one high performance model? If you want serious power in this car, then go with a mustang II type front and save a ton of hassle if you want a big block. You can then get the big motor in there, with room for headers. You will have to strengthen the from subframe though, as the inner fenders up front are a MAJOR part of the frame rigidity, and without them, you will fold the car in half. AMHIK.
A boneyard Dana 60 truck axle with posi and 35 spline axles can be converted to fit your Dart, and that with the new front can all be set up for a large bolt circle for better wheel choices. While you are at it, you may want to move the springs into the frame rails to gain wheel/tire room for those bigger rims you might want. Just be sure and put the mounting holes for the front spring eye as high as you possibly can for the top hole, and have three, about an inch apart. I set my axle back 1/2 an inch for better tire clearance. One other option for rear ends is an Explorer rear axle combined with the Mustang wheels that are a back space of 6.3 inch with 8 inch width. These rearends from about 1996 and newer come with disc brakes, posi, 31 spline axles for strength, and ratios of 3.55 and 3.73 . This deal fits like a glove when you move the springs in. With the SS springs, I needed lowering blocks to get the stance you see in the pics. ProCar elite seats from SCAT enterprises look great in the Darts, and you can buy the material they are covered with right from ProCar, to make a good looking matched interior. If you want real wide wheels, the front is an issue with wheels that have a serious offset, like the Mustang 2006 GT 18 inchers I put on my car. They REQUIRE a custom triangular A arm to gain the needed clearance for A arm to wheels and still get decent turning radius. I had vary little, but with the smaller A arms, the problem is gone. The front will be better off with a 15, 16, or 17 inch rim rather than the 18. The reason is the tire sidewalls on a 18 inch tire/wheel combo that will fit make for a rough ride. There isn't much room up there to work with, and you need the offset to the inside (along with a short tire)to keep from hitting the fenders at the front bottom. I have some trim, so Email or PM me if you like and I can see what I have.
For the ultimate cruiser, you can't beat cubic inches to have it all. One good recipe would be a 512 low deck stroker motor built from a 400 block. Great torque, and you can run much less gear when you have that many cubes. If you list all of your fabricating skills, or what you are willing to learn, we can suggest better what path to take.

 

[gregsdart]

On which way to go, you could build a turbo equiped car that can get decent mileage and still have some real power, if you don't mind a bit of turbo lag. A 318 with a turbo can make some pretty good power. I can pm you with a link to a buddy of mine that put a LOT of boost to a low compression 318 with the only upgrade being better headgaskets.
Even with a 318 and overdrive, it will be tough to do a lot better than 22 mpg. So I lean towards a real strong running package for fun, just be sure and keep it streetable for lots more fun rides. The farther you push the motor for serious hp, the less miles you will be enjoying on the street. My orange car started as a street project, but got out of hand in a hurry and wound up on a trailer going to dragstrips.

 

[gregsdart]

My first Dart, the one that was supposed to be a "street" car.

 

[Johnny Dart]

In regards to all the rust,you lost me with the first sentence.
To many dry cars in Cal,to focus on a rust bucket. If you want to put a bunch of money into a build,look for the cleanest platform to start.
My vote for this car ?
Give it a nice tune up,put a nice set of steelies/tires on,and throw your clubs in the back.

 

[Shunyun]

In regards to all the rust,you lost me with the first sentence.
To many dry cars in Cal,to focus on a rust bucket. If you want to put a bunch of money into a build,look for the cleanest platform to start.
My vote for this car ?
Give it a nice tune up,put a nice set of steelies/tires on,and throw your clubs in the back.

Gotta agree... Thanks both of you for the advice.

 

[Rockerdude]

I personally love 65 Dart Gts (my first car, had two other 65s since then). So I say go for it.

 

[SSVDP]

Johnny Dart said it, don't spend too much time & money if there's rust.
I think you need to have the suspension rubber bits replaced and you also need an upgrade to front disc brakes and don't forget the dual master cylinder.
Make it an affordable and safe vintage car.

 

[gtmopar]

I would try to get the rust stopped as much as possible or replace really bad areas if you have the ability to. Put a healthy smallblock in it, the the suspension working nicely and burn the f-ing tires off it. Remember its what makes you smile not what you think other people will like. Post some pics and ill be able to get a better gauge of the depth of how bad the body is.

 

[gregsdart]

After rereading the part about the rust, this car is better used for a parts car/beater if the rust is that extensive. It gets real expensive if you need window gaskets and glass replacement along with rust repair in those areas. Check for swelling by the window seals of the windshield and rear window. Also look under the dash by the heater/fresh air vents, up high by the cowl area. If the rust went by the windshield gasket, those are probably toast as well. If you love the body style, then start looking for a good base to work with, keeping in mind what is expensive or very hard to replace.
To fix minor rust in the rear quarters and cowl corners, and get some decent paint on mine, it cost $7500, and I did the floor pans myself before that.
If you do decide to look for another, then combine the best of both down the road you can "rebody" the better car if it is the same model using the plates and registration you now have. All you need is to make sure all ID tags etc make the move to the new body.

 

[BillGrissom]

Are you talking CA rust or real rust? If you don't have any rust-thru holes, it should be readily repairable. I can't imagine much rust in SoCal. I used a portable sand-blaster w/ a wand handle to get in the doors, plus a wire-wheel. Coat w/ POR-15 or Rust Destroyer, plus spray into all the crevices. After that, it should be better than the factory did.

 

[gtmopar]

Post pics and we can judge the severity of it.

 

[Shunyun]

OK, so California rust... But apparently 40 some years worth!

 

[gtmopar]

Hell that's nothing. If you wanted too get a new deck lid and new door and you are most of the way there. I've got upper door trim if you need it and a member lee Robinson has body parts and I believe a nice trunk lid. Build up the mechanicals first then if the body turns out to be really bad you could always transplant mechanicals into another early A but that's way worst case. I've got a lot of spare parts for 65's if you need something. Pm me and I'd be glad to part with some stuff.

 

[Rockerdude]

I like it! Sweet choice on wheels/hubcaps.

 

[Tadams]

I wish east coast cars had that type of rust problems!

 

[Shunyun]

Hell that's nothing. If you wanted too get a new deck lid and new door and you are most of the way there. I've got upper door trim if you need it and a member lee Robinson has body parts and I believe a nice trunk lid. Build up the mechanicals first then if the body turns out to be really bad you could always transplant mechanicals into another early A but that's way worst case. I've got a lot of spare parts for 65's if you need something. Pm me and I'd be glad to part with some stuff.

Thanks, that's encouraging. I guess it seems significant to me because I don't know what to do about it; this is really my first restoration effort. I've built and swapped engines and other mechanics but zippo body/paint/interior work.

I think this makes sense, to focus first on the foundation mechanics. Suspension first (it shimmies at 50mph), then disc and dual MC. I'm picking up a spare 904 (low mi on rebuild) which I'll swap in when the opportunity arises. Power doesn't make sense if I can't stop or steer and looks don't matter if I can't drive it in normal traffic.

 

[Shunyun]

I like it! Sweet choice on wheels/hubcaps.

Thanks! Yeah, I looked around a lot and I think I lucked out on finding these rims. 205/70R14 on back and 185/75R14 on front. Makes rear tires 1/3" higher but looks more aggressive because of the deep dish on back. I also like the 14" because it shows more tire... meaty. Reminds me of a rod the pizza delivery guy drove. We partied at a place up in the Covina hills and the cabana on the hill (back yard) had a view of a mile worth of streets with about 6 stop signs. We'd ask for him specifically, cause after delivering he knew we were watching so he'd burn donuts at every intersection going down the hill. Don't remember what he drove, but I remember those meats!

 

[BillGrissom]

Ouch. That isn't typical SoCal rust, or even NorCal rust. I wonder if that car spent time in the mountains or is from the East. The rust you see on the outside means it rusted thru from the inside. Also, rust is usually much worse than what you see superficially. The frame rails and floors could even be gone. Take a wire-brush to it and see how extensive it is, and be prepared to scream. You will likely need a skilled welder to cut out the bad sections and weld in good metal. Totally strip the interior first. If too much, consider it a parts car and look for a solid body.