69 273 headlights wont turn on

-
By the way... the fact that your engine is still red ( I know it looks orange to me too but it is red) suggests that it may not have ever been rebuilt (good thing)


This is what I get off your fender tag: (from Mymopar.com)

LL23:
L= Dodge Dart or Demon
L= Low price point
23= 2 Door Hardtop

D9E:
D =273 190HP 1-2BBL 8 CYL
9= 1969
E= Los Angeles, CA, USA (assy plant, talk about a CA car!)

137946: Sequence number, should match last 6 of VIN on dash

E31: 69 only 273 cid 2 barrel V8 190hp
D31: A904 3-Speed Auto Trans.
B3: Light Blue Metallic Exterior Color
D2B: Trim - Luxury, Vinyl Bench Seat, Blue
B7: Medium Blue Metallic Int. Door Frames
205: Build Date: February 05
255533: Order number

A48: Unknown Top Color
A78: 69 only Western Sport Special Package
G33: LH Remote Racing Mirror
H51: Air Conditioning with Heater
L31: Hood/Fender Mounted Turn Signals
M21: Roof drip rail moldings

M25: Wide sill moldings
M33: Body Side Moldings
R11: Radio Solid State AM (2 Watts)
V1W: Unknown
END: End of Sales Codes


Some of this may or may not be accurate, but looks good to what I see. ALSO it is VERY likely that you will find the build sheets in the car. Somewhere along the line my dad found 2 perfect condition in his /my Dart, not sure where. Some locations to look are under the front seats in the springs, on top of the cardboard glove box insert.

Would live to hear the history of your Dart.


This is from another decoder:
(Mopar Fender Tag Decoder)

again not everything may be correct like the "A78 = Formula S Package" I think is a Barracuda only thing
upload_2020-7-25_10-8-47.png


Ok i'm done geeking out on your car, now to fixing it!
 
Last edited:
Mattax said:
View attachment 1715567284

Bottom row. E31 is the engine code for 273 cid v-8.
According to the dealer's book, that was standard cost option - at least early in the model year.
The 1970 Hamtramck Registry - 1969 Dodge Dealership Data Book - Dart
D31 sales code isn't shown in that particular booklet, but its probably the 904 automatic.
L is dart, second L is lower option/cost base model. 23 is two door hardtop.
Looking at the sale book, H51 is the code for A/C equipped and I see it in the second row. Nice!
We see headrests and shoulder belts, the former became standard option around Jan of '69.
Click to expand...

this is a lot to take in, i should get some money in next week for parts for the charging and wiring system i will go ahead and listen to Mattax in whatever he says to do, with the best of my ability. Thank you, i cant believe i was doing this on my own and didnt realize a treasure trove of experience and help i could find in kind people like yourselves. i dont have to do this alone.
 
Dana67Dart said:
By the way... the fact that your engine is still red ( I know it looks orange to me too but it is red) suggests that it may not have ever been rebuilt (good thing)


This is what I get off your fender tag: (from Mymopar.com)

LL23:
L= Dodge Dart or Demon
L= Low price point
23= 2 Door Hardtop

D9E:
D =273 190HP 1-2BBL 8 CYL
9= 1969
E= Los Angeles, CA, USA (assy plant, talk about a CA car!)

137946: Sequence number, should match last 6 of VIN on dash

E31: 69 only 273 cid 2 barrel V8 190hp
D31: A904 3-Speed Auto Trans.
B3: Light Blue Metallic Exterior Color
D2B: Trim - Luxury, Vinyl Bench Seat, Blue
B7: Medium Blue Metallic Int. Door Frames
205: Build Date: February 05
255533: Order number

A48: Unknown Top Color
A78: 69 only Western Sport Special Package
G33: LH Remote Racing Mirror
H51: Air Conditioning with Heater
L31: Hood/Fender Mounted Turn Signals
M21: Roof drip rail moldings

M25: Wide sill moldings
M33: Body Side Moldings
R11: Radio Solid State AM (2 Watts)
V1W: Unknown
END: End of Sales Codes


Some of this may or may not be accurate, but looks good to what I see. ALSO it is VERY likely that you will find the build sheets in the car. Somewhere along the line my dad found 2 perfect condition in his /my Dart, not sure where. Some locations to look are under the front seats in the springs, on top of the cardboard glove box insert.

Would live to hear the history of your Dart.


This is from another decoder:
(Mopar Fender Tag Decoder)

again not everything may be correct like the "A78 = Formula S Package" I think is a Barracuda only thing
View attachment 1715567356

Ok i'm done geeking out on your car, now to fixing it!
Click to expand...

it was a white top, this is amazing. i never knew it had 190hp, its still really fast. It was sitting for over 22 years before it was given to me. its never been overhauled. the engine hasnt been rebuilt even tho i want it to. it currently has 213k miles on it. the carb is leaking and there is a exhaust leak, but it still turns on and drives very fast, i think the fast i went in it was 75, which im a idiot for doing that. i know im missing a lot of stuff. but if there is any pictures or videos you wanna see let me know. im so happy i have people that interested and want to help.
 
213,000 miles... its a baby! I'm sitting at 318,000 miles (it was my dad's daily driver for 25+ years then got occasional use for the next 25 years after that.

I would start a new thread with an introduction of yourself, your experience level etc. and the history of the car and your Grandfather.

The back story is almost more important than the car. I have seen grown men cry talking about their cars and the adventures they have had.

I would also start looking for a local MOPAR club and some car shows, don't worry if it is not a trailer queen, everyone will enjoy seeing a survivor and watching your progress year to year.

Post photos of every inch of the car inside and out and underneath. Because the car seems to be very original you have to decide if you want to keep it that way or resto-mod it. The rebuild of the engine will set you back 2000-3000 dollars due to it being a 273. other engine options are available and will mostly drop right in and be way cheaper.

BUT first and foremost as my dad always said... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" meaning fix what needs to be fixed for safety and functionality, then enjoy the car for a while, save up some money and then work on another project on the car. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES take the car all apart, it will never get put back together (ask me how I know!)

Lastly talk to @DentalDart about his experiences, he got a dart, didn't know much about 60s Darts and started learning, Its been fun watching his progress. He is probably closer to your age, the rest of us are old farts!
 
Dana67Dart said:
213,000 miles... its a baby! I'm sitting at 318,000 miles (it was my dad's daily driver for 25+ years then got occasional use for the next 25 years after that.

I would start a new thread with an introduction of yourself, your experience level etc. and the history of the car and your Grandfather.

The back story is almost more important than the car. I have seen grown men cry talking about their cars and the adventures they have had.

I would also start looking for a local MOPAR club and some car shows, don't worry if it is not a trailer queen, everyone will enjoy seeing a survivor and watching your progress year to year.

Post photos of every inch of the car inside and out and underneath. Because the car seems to be very original you have to decide if you want to keep it that way or resto-mod it. The rebuild of the engine will set you back 2000-3000 dollars due to it being a 273. other engine options are available and will mostly drop right in and be way cheaper.

BUT first and foremost as my dad always said... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" meaning fix what needs to be fixed for safety and functionality, then enjoy the car for a while, save up some money and then work on another project on the car. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES take the car all apart, it will never get put back together (ask me how I know!)

Lastly talk to @DentalDart about his experiences, he got a dart, didn't know much about 60s Darts and started learning, Its been fun watching his progress. He is probably closer to your age, the rest of us are old farts!
Click to expand...

i will make a new post talking about everything you said. i'll take my time and make the post.
 
I agree with everything above. @Cuda Al and @Mopar Tim are a couple guys who have done some really impressive restorations - although arguably different approaches. Calif is a big state so I have know idea if either would be any where close to you. Spring Fling and Fall Fling in van Nuys is a usually a pretty big mopar get together.

Take your time. if if someone is knowledgable, sometimes learning/teaching styles mesh and sometimes they don't.

it is alot to take in, I won't post anymore right now.
Shop manual and the Master Tech series, and an owners manual, are all great resources that are right from Chrysler. Hard to beat that with a you tube by some guy who may or may not know what he is saying. (Or some guy typing on a keyboard in Philadelphia. LOL)
 
Mattax said:
I agree with everything. @Cuda Al and @Mopar Tim are a couple guys who have done some really impressive restorations - although arguably different approaches. Calif is a big state so I have know idea if either would be any where close to you. Spring Fling and Fall Fling in van Nuys is a usually a pretty big mopar get together.
Click to expand...

van nuys is about 30 to 45 mins from me. i live in altadena california which is 2 mins from pasadena los angeles county
 
Jordan Williams said:
this is a lot to take in, i should get some money in next week for parts for the charging and wiring system i will go ahead and listen to Mattax in whatever he says to do, with the best of my ability. Thank you, i cant believe i was doing this on my own and didnt realize a treasure trove of experience and help i could find in kind people like yourselves. i dont have to do this alone.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't need to spend too much. A cheap multi-meter will do, a timing light and low rpm tach can often be found on a dusty shelf in people basements and show up a yard sales or just get handed to you when people find you are interested. For a little more you can see if halifaxhops has any for sale - advantage there is that he's tested them.

Crimpers - toolmanmike posted a link for some relatively cheap ones. I haven't tried them personally but look ok. Terminals sometimes available locally but aren't too expensive even with shipping if mail ordered.
 
Last edited:
Dana67Dart said:
213,000 miles... its a baby! I'm sitting at 318,000 miles (it was my dad's daily driver for 25+ years then got occasional use for the next 25 years after that.

I would start a new thread with an introduction of yourself, your experience level etc. and the history of the car and your Grandfather.

The back story is almost more important than the car. I have seen grown men cry talking about their cars and the adventures they have had.

I would also start looking for a local MOPAR club and some car shows, don't worry if it is not a trailer queen, everyone will enjoy seeing a survivor and watching your progress year to year.

Post photos of every inch of the car inside and out and underneath. Because the car seems to be very original you have to decide if you want to keep it that way or resto-mod it. The rebuild of the engine will set you back 2000-3000 dollars due to it being a 273. other engine options are available and will mostly drop right in and be way cheaper.

BUT first and foremost as my dad always said... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" meaning fix what needs to be fixed for safety and functionality, then enjoy the car for a while, save up some money and then work on another project on the car. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES take the car all apart, it will never get put back together (ask me how I know!)

Lastly talk to @DentalDart about his experiences, he got a dart, didn't know much about 60s Darts and started learning, Its been fun watching his progress. He is probably closer to your age, the rest of us are old farts!
Click to expand...

Man I still don't know anything haha. My car has been a sitting duck since it got hot. No a/c and fuel issues all while being 110+ outside daily. This makes for a not so enjoyable drive to only have the car stop driving haha.

Electric fp and line ran back to the tank will be in my future I assume.
 
Chrysler made many electrical changes from the 1960's to the 1970's. It is important to get the wiring diagram for your specific car. The factory wiring diagram for a 1971 [VL] A body is hard to read. [basically 2 pages]. And the aftermarket diagrams [Clinton's etc.] aren't always correct.

Your car: points gap = .017 ----- timing = 2 1/2* ATC ----- non adjustable hydraulic lifters

I use a 12V incandescent test light for most old car work. Get a good one with a long cord and alligator clip. And check it on the battery terminals every time you use it.
 
Yeah, I'm in Lompoc, about 2-1/2 hours up the coast.


For me I'd bite the bullet and get a new harness and start over. At least get a diagram and learn what was original and what wasn't.

I like to make copies of the diagram and highlight the path from the battery to the device and then start checking for power along the path till you find the fault.

If you have some light but not all lights then the problem is most likely in the switch.

The two most common faults for all lighting issues are the headlight switch and the turn signal switch.


Alan
 
Cuda Al said:
Yeah, I'm in Lompoc, about 2-1/2 hours up the coast.


For me I'd bite the bullet and get a new harness and start over. At least get a diagram and learn what was original and what wasn't.

I like to make copies of the diagram and highlight the path from the battery to the device and then start checking for power along the path till you find the fault.

If you have some light but not all lights then the problem is most likely in the switch.

The two most common faults for all lighting issues are the headlight switch and the turn signal switch.


Alan
Click to expand...

Wait... we have turn signals??? :poke::steering:
 
sorry yall, for the lack of updates, i got the carb rebuilt and the manifolds put back in the shape resealed and paited. the ecarter emissions chip is gone and the moter hasnt ran this smooth in a long time. ok so here is the problems, i took it to the electrician and he said the car doesnt have an electrical problem, but the headlight switch is bad. so i went out and bought a new headlight switch and dimmer switch and boom the headlights work again. the alternator doesn't charge when idle. battery reads 13.15 13.14 when i rev it and walk back to the battery it reads up to 13.50 13.51. The car electrician said the alternator is only working at 60 percent..... smh i dont know, he said when i drive it it will charge but not on idle. Now for the biggest issue, when the car is off lights remain on, rear is red and blinkers are solid yellow. Im so confused
 
In my opinion you're not going to learn anything by paying a professional. Time is money so even if they know their stuff, their not going to spend any time they don't think is neccessary - and that most always includes teaching.
Second. No professional wants to hear about something you read - especially from the internet. So if you're going to work with this guy, then that's what you should do. If based on your knowledge and understanding his diagnosis or work is not what you expect, either/or explain that to him or find someone else.


The alternator may not generate enough power at slow idle rpm to supply the ignition, plus the parking lights and have some left over available for recharge.
13.1 to 13.5 Volts indicates the alternator is producing some power.
It also is possible that alternator is not producing its potential at any rpm. Did he show you what he based his analysis of 60% down on? Perhaps a scope picture?

As far as the parking lights on etc. Are you going to trace this or hand it off?
 
Mattax said:
In my opinion you're not going to learn anything by paying a professional. Time is money so even if they know their stuff, their not going to spend any time they don't think is neccessary - and that most always includes teaching.
Second. No professional wants to hear about something you read - especially from the internet. So if you're going to work with this guy, then that's what you should do. If based on your knowledge and understanding his diagnosis or work is not what you expect, either/or explain that to him or find someone else.


The alternator may not generate enough power at slow idle rpm to supply the ignition, plus the parking lights and have some left over available for recharge.
13.1 to 13.5 Volts indicates the alternator is producing some power.
It also is possible that alternator is not producing its potential at any rpm. Did he show you what he based his analysis of 60% down on? Perhaps a scope picture?

As far as the parking lights on etc. Are you going to trace this or hand it off?
Click to expand...

he didnt show me anything, he ran a lot of different test, dipped something into the liquid of the battery. Im not sure what you mean by trace or hand it off with the parking lights. im not gonna pay someone one to fix that. i would like to fix it myself, but i don't know where to begin, where even the parking light button. Or was it because the door was open ?
 
Did all the lights except for the headlights work BEFORE the headlight switch was changed?

Is it the tail lights or the brake lights that are on all the time?

Door open should not cause any exterior lights to come on.

As for alt not charging at idle... A few things can influence that
  1. Diameter of the pulley in the alternator, larger caused it to rotate slower.
  2. Alternator defective
  3. Resistance in the wiring
  4. Voltage regulator
  5. Engine idle RPM


My 67 273 would be in the discharge side of the indicator at a stop light. I replaced the alternator pulley with a smaller diameter one (was ~3" dia, parts book calls for ~2.5" dia) now it is center at idle and slightly to charge when driving.

Measure voltage with car off, doors shut, and any other electrical device off.

Should be around 12.5v ish

Start car keeping all other electrical devices off as before.

Should be above 13v to about under 15v.

There are specs in the Factory Service manual that list amperage capabilities at a given RPM.
 
Jordan Williams said:
he didnt show me anything, he ran a lot of different test, dipped something into the liquid of the battery.
Click to expand...
Perhaps a hydrometer. It measures density of the battery acid. That's a good indicator of the condition of each of the battery cells.
Since we don't know what the other tests were, its hard to guess. It's possible he put a load on the alternator to test its output. We can come back to the alternator in a bit.
Im not sure what you mean by trace or hand it off with the parking lights. im not gonna pay someone one to fix that. i would like to fix it myself,
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I was asking. If you're paying this guy to do more electrical work, then I didn't want to be in the middle and I don't think it would have helped in any way.
By tracing I mean narrowing the problem and then following the wires to the source of the problem. Sometimes that means physically following the wires but usually we can use the diagrams and some tools to figure out where each one connects.

but i don't know where to begin, where even the parking light button. Or was it because the door was open ?
Click to expand...
Fine. Lets begin with these two.
The headlight switch is a multi-function switch.
On a '69 Dart the parking and tail lights should be on when the switch is pulled out to the first and second position. Pull the knob to the second position the headlights should also turn on.
In either position oine or two the instrument and radio lights should be on. Rotating the knob will make the instrument and radio lights brighter or dimmer.

With the knob pushed all the way in, all lights should be off.
In any position, rotating the knob until it clicks will turn on the dome light and any other similar lights. Remember to turn them off if you turn them on that way!

Opening either door will also turn on the dome light and any similar lights.
 
Last edited:
As far as charging goes, after starting the gage marked 'alternator' should show some charging for a short period of time. After that it normally should show zero, except as Dana mentioned sometimes at a stop light with the lights on.
Go ahead and check the operation of everything and then we can move onto the next step.
 
Turning the headlight switch turns on other lights? because when the car is off, the rear lights stay on, as well as the blinkers. the blinkers arent flashing they are just solid
 
Lights staying on is most likely a stuck or misadjusted or defective brake light switch. With the the problem rear lights showing, reach in and pull up on the brake pedal
 
67Dart273 said:
Lights staying on is most likely a stuck or misadjusted or defective brake light switch. With the the problem rear lights showing, reach in and pull up on the brake pedal
Click to expand...

it turns out the new head light switch is at fault, it also turns out that the original headlight switch was never even plugged in. I wonder if my grandfather had someone unplug the stuff.. but the old switch works and the lights come on and off. Now just the voltage issue... the process continues imma upload a video.
 
Wow. 69 Dart with PS and factory air. Keep plugging away. You will solve it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top